Oxford Rail announces - OO gauge Mk3 coaches

[tractor_37260]

Took the coach back today, still no better off, the one in the shop you could see the step was missing, on inspection it fell out of the box (step not coach) luckily found it on the floor so all steps were there just not attached.

The box was also damaged so they swapped it over to the one I brought back, Literately walked out of the shop put it on the van seat and by the time I've got home one's gone missing. I'm not going back again with this one.

Am I better contacting Oxford direct and see if they can send one out or don't they work like that,

Facebook

 

Perhaps try contacting OX Rail on their Facebook page I've e-mailed them in the past - got no response.....!

[ThaneofFife]

Wow that’s an impressive level of detail in that kitchen.

 

Pretty sinks and work surface detail is pointless IMHO (at best you might be able to see over the serving counter but not into the kitchen area that is mainly hidden by a return partition) but also a shame that the same level of attention has not been paid to some of more visible aspects externally (which really do matter)…….

 

I mean..... who signed off on those small thin windows on the back kitchen wall for starters?   Lima got that right nearly 4 decades back.  Really annoying basic stuff.

[YesTor]

Literately walked out of the shop put it on the van seat and by the time I've got home one's gone missing. I'm not going back again with this one.

Am I better contacting Oxford direct and see if they can send one out or don't they work like that,

 

With respect, if you are aware that the steps are potentially loose or/and likely to become detached very easily then how difficult would it have been to pop the tiny parts into a resealable plastic bag for the journey home?

Edited October 17, 2018 by YesTor

[Bob Reid]

Pretty sinks and work surface detail is pointless IMHO (at best you might be able to see over the serving counter but not into the kitchen area that is mainly hidden by a return partition) but also a shame that the same level of attention has not been paid to some of more visible aspects externally (which really do matter)…….

 

I mean..... who signed off on those small thin windows on the back kitchen wall for starters?   Lima got that right nearly 4 decades back.  Really annoying basic stuff.

 

 

Thin is good for an RUB/RFB but quite how they managed to get the later RFM shape (square ends) at the back of the buffet but with the earlier RUB/RFB height mixed up I've no idea.  It's clear by adding the door handles to the once emergency doors they were looking at / measuring up a converted vehicle but without the four main bodylights, it's a right mish mash of earlier and later vehicles, but can't be correct for either arrangement. Strange.  The small bodylights could probably be corrected but is it worth the hassle?

 

[Edit] What I hadn't realised was they are planning to do the later RFM conversions http://oxfordrail.com/76/OR76MK3.htm which from the EP's look at face value to be correct (square ends / deeper height)....  

Edited October 18, 2018 by Bob Reid

[letterspider]

Thin is good for an RUB/RFB but quite how they managed to get the later RFM shape (square ends) at the back of the buffet but with the earlier RUB/RFB height mixed up I've no idea.  It's clear by adding the door handles to the once emergency doors they were looking at / measuring up a converted vehicle but without the four main bodylights, it's a right mish mash of earlier and later vehicles, but can't be correct for either arrangement. Strange.  The small bodylights could probably be corrected but is it worth the hassle?

 

[Edit] What I hadn't realised was they are planning to do the later RFM conversions http://oxfordrail.com/76/OR76MK3.htm which from the EP's look at face value to be correct (square ends / deeper height)....  

 

You don't pay a retainer to keep a researcher on your books full time - this is probably why these coaches are less costly to produce.

You don't want to disclose the final product until general release - this is why the consumer gets a disappointment - possibly effecting sales.

Otherwise we complain that manufacturers take so long and products cost so much.

Edited October 18, 2018 by letterspider

[James90012]

Just noticed on Oxford Rail facebook that the Virgin MK3s are 'on hold' as of three weeks ago due to lisencing issues.

 

Suppose we haven't heard anything further on the Scotrail variants since a comment further up the thread that OR had livery samples which they have requested be amended?

[Bob Reid]

You don't pay a retainer to keep a researcher on your books full time - this is probably why these coaches are less costly to produce.

You don't want to disclose the final product until general release - this is why the consumer gets a disappointment - possibly effecting sales.

Otherwise we complain that manufacturers take so long and products cost so much.

 

 

I'm not sure how that relates to getting the size & shape of the small bodylights wrong however surely the research portion is a one-off cost so why would you need to retain them? Of course the person doing the research work and the designer could be one and the same person.

[wombatofludham]

I have an easy fix to the fanlight issue.  As you can only see one side on my roundy roundy layout under construction I'll just move London to allow the correct face to show outwards whilst retaining the dining area at the London end of the train.

Probably easier to move that hell hole than start butchering the model.

[UP 4000]

With respect, if you are aware that the steps are potentially loose or/and likely to become detached very easily then how difficult would it have been to pop the tiny parts into a resealable plastic bag for the journey home?

 Good point, But the shop owner put the steps back on, put it back in the damaged box then swapped it over to the undamaged box what I brought back, I didn't even touch the coach, when I opened it I heard something fall out, handed the box back and scoured the floor for the missing step.

Oxford are aware the steps keep falling off and for the first coach to have three missing, either not putting them on or falling off in transit and falling out the box, Why aren't they putting them in the plastic bag to start with.

Or at least a few spares.

[SDJR7F88]

A look at some of the latest models and prototypes from Oxford Rail, filmed on their Trade Stand at the Swansea Model Railway Exhibition 2018.

Models featured, included the all new Class N7 0-6-2T Tanks, impressive 'Gladiator' Railgun, ROD Khaki 'Dean Goods' and Stobart Rail BR Mk3 Coach.

Hope it's of interest!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1Cjh-FezCY

[tractor_37260]

A look at some of the latest models and prototypes from Oxford Rail, filmed on their Trade Stand at the Swansea Model Railway Exhibition 2018.

Models featured, included the all new Class N7 0-6-2T Tanks, impressive 'Gladiator' Railgun, ROD Khaki 'Dean Goods' and Stobart Rail BR Mk3 Coach.

Hope it's of interest!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1Cjh-FezCY

 

Nice video, unless I'm mistaken, it appears the ScotRail TSO & CO MK3A's have the same light grey as was used on their Swallow versions ? 

[BigAndy]

I'm not sure how that relates to getting the size & shape of the small bodylights wrong however surely the research portion is a one-off cost so why would you need to retain them? Of course the person doing the research work and the designer could be one and the same person.

 

Agreed Bob. There is the point however, that we are assuming the person doing the research/design, ACTUALLY knows the differences within the MK3a's..........on this evidence it seems that whoever is conducting research and signing off these areas on the models, doesn't really know that much about the subject in hand.

That then leads on to whether you really do need a paid retainer, OR just go and seek out the experts in the first place during the research phase! Monkeys and peanuts spring to mind.

 

I would suspect that a company such as Oxford, has employees and management who have none or very little knowledge of what they are actually producing. They therefore rely on 'experts' within the hobby to assist them. All well and good............so long as you're actually speaking to an expert and not some wannabe who talks a good fight, but in reality falls far short of the mark.......

I myself am lucky, in that I have a tame professional engineer who works on MK1's,2's and 3's and really knows his onions. He's also very humble and would never shout about how much he does know.........which is where the problem again rears its head, of said 'Experts' shouting the loudest, 'advising' Oxford, and profferring that they know all there is to know...........

 

cheers

 

Andy

[Tiddles47]

Nice video, unless I'm mistaken, it appears the ScotRail TSO & CO MK3A's have the same light grey as was used on their Swallow versions ? 

I think they must be the original livery samples as used for press photos and for the latest catalogue. The newer livery samples they have feature silver window surrounds and (hopefully) correct light grey. 

[raetiamann]

Has anyone run the Mk3s with the Bachmann semi permanent close couplers fitted and has it worked?

[James90012]

I also have a query, does anyone have an Oxford Rail MK3 IC Swallow and a Hornby MK2E they could compare the liveries against please? I gave my self a headache understanding MK3 buffets and would like to replace my Hornby MK3 buffet in my WCML MK2 set, but at the moment it's deciding what is more jarring - a livery difference or the body shell difference. 

[njee20]

For me, in that situation I'd stick with the Hornby one all day long, the livery will stand out like a sore thumb.

[The Black Hat]

I also have a query, does anyone have an Oxford Rail MK3 IC Swallow and a Hornby MK2E they could compare the liveries against please? I gave my self a headache understanding MK3 buffets and would like to replace my Hornby MK3 buffet in my WCML MK2 set, but at the moment it's deciding what is more jarring - a livery difference or the body shell difference. 

 

I was wondering the same about putting the Oxford Rail Mk. 3 in intercity swallow with the Hornby HST. Yes I know the Mk. 3s are for locomotive haulage not HST - but think the tooling looks much better. Whats stopping me now, is the possible livery difference and that could be quite noticeable...

[JSpencer]

I was wondering the same about putting the Oxford Rail Mk. 3 in intercity swallow with the Hornby HST. Yes I know the Mk. 3s are for locomotive haulage not HST - but think the tooling looks much better. Whats stopping me now, is the possible livery difference and that could be quite noticeable...

 

Mainly the roof vents and buffers.

 

I'll wait for them to do proper HST ones (if sales of loco hauled were good and the flak here did not deter them!). In the meanwhile, my HST soldiers on with a few Hornby ones.

 

With hindsight BR could have done the class 43 as pure locos and had all stock loco hauled. Would have made life easier for us modelers!!

[adb968008]

Mainly the roof vents and buffers.

 

I'll wait for them to do proper HST ones (if sales of loco hauled were good and the flak here did not deter them!). In the meanwhile, my HST soldiers on with a few Hornby ones.

 

With hindsight BR could have done the class 43 as pure locos and had all stock loco hauled. Would have made life easier for us modelers!!

Having Power cars providing 3 phase 415vac saved a considerable amount of money instead of having each coach take a 1000vdc supply and having a generator creating a 415vac supply off of it, to operate the coach..., the savings would be beyond just the physical components costs, but maintenance, coach weight and power generating efficiency...

 

If the 43 was a loco, each coach needed the above, and the 43 a standard 1000vdc heating output...

But for what benefit over cost savings made ?

 

This arrangement has probably been massively beneficial over LHCS mk3’s in their lifetime, though restricted HST mk3’s wider usage.

 

A single 43 cannot achieve 125mph timings with a full length train, so a pair would always needed, so even if they were “locos” they would still run in a semi-fixed formation anyway. Similarly for operational flexibility, they would need to be double streamlined cabbed, like the class 89, (Greater cost, limited benefit).

 

The HST has been well engineered in economics terms as well as technological, i’d imagine (without looking) that many of the worlds High Speed EMU fleets have used these & similar lessons.

 

As an example look at the class 91’s... what use have they been without mk4’s... they have been designed to be flexible to a purpose thats never been realised... the blunt end cab is probably the most under used cab on any locomotive fleet ever built... additionally when the mk4’s with their conventional 1000vdc werent ready, the class 91’s needed a HST DVT to provide electric to the mk3 stock the class 91s were used with, as the 91 couldnt power the HST mk3’s. Reading further the connector for the class 91 is a UIC connector that isnt used on other locos of that time... i dont know if class 66/7/8 now use the same UIC connectors or if that limits the usability of mk4’s without a class 91 as traction... the “knowledge” of the class 91 was clearly more wasteful than that of the HST, but isnt the 91 a descendant of the APT, if so those gaps still show today.

Edited October 24, 2018 by adb968008

[Revolution Mike B]

I was wondering the same about putting the Oxford Rail Mk. 3 in intercity swallow with the Hornby HST. Yes I know the Mk. 3s are for locomotive haulage not HST - but think the tooling looks much better. Whats stopping me now, is the possible livery difference and that could be quite noticeable...

 

Not sure that the tooling is 'much better' - it's as poor as the Hornby HST trailers when you start scratching below the surface!

[ThaneofFife]

that video has revealed another flaw to my eyes.  those toilet windows look rather slim or squashed when they really have more of a square look to them.

 

the shot looking at the far end of the coach really shows up the undernourished bogie appearance.

 

please to see tinted glazing has made it into the models but its just not good enough when taking into account the bigger mistakes.

 

they look kind of OK from a distance but up close the eye starts to find the issues.

[Wild Boar Fell]

Having Power cars providing 3 phase 415vac saved a considerable amount of money instead of having each coach take a 1000vdc supply and having a generator creating a 415vac supply off of it, to operate the coach..., the savings would be beyond just the physical components costs, but maintenance, coach weight and power generating efficiency...

 

If the 43 was a loco, each coach needed the above, and the 43 a standard 1000vdc heating output...

But for what benefit over cost savings made ?

 

This arrangement has probably been massively beneficial over LHCS mk3’s in their lifetime, though restricted HST mk3’s wider usage.

 

A single 43 cannot achieve 125mph timings with a full length train, so a pair would always needed, so even if they were “locos” they would still run in a semi-fixed formation anyway. Similarly for operational flexibility, they would need to be double streamlined cabbed, like the class 89, (Greater cost, limited benefit).

 

The HST has been well engineered in economics terms as well as technological, i’d imagine (without looking) that many of the worlds High Speed EMU fleets have used these & similar lessons.

 

As an example look at the class 91’s... what use have they been without mk4’s... they have been designed to be flexible to a purpose thats never been realised... the blunt end cab is probably the most under used cab on any locomotive fleet ever built... additionally when the mk4’s with their conventional 1000vdc werent ready, the class 91’s needed a HST DVT to provide electric to the mk3 stock the class 91s were used with, as the 91 couldnt power the HST mk3’s. Reading further the connector for the class 91 is a UIC connector that isnt used on other locos of that time... i dont know if class 66/7/8 now use the same UIC connectors or if that limits the usability of mk4’s without a class 91 as traction... the “knowledge” of the class 91 was clearly more wasteful than that of the HST, but isnt the 91 a descendant of the APT, if so those gaps still show today.

 

91s send traction/ brake demand over the UIC Jumpers via TDM.

HSTs send traction/ brake demand via a hardwired connection on the Mk3s.

 

66s - AAR

67s - AAR but also fitted with RCH connectors for working with Royal Mail Stock (not sure what level of control they had through the RCH for PCV working).

68s - UIC568 WTB

 

Remembering 90s can also work with Mk4 stock.

[classy52]

Just a query but does anyone know if Oxford Rail have a future roadmap on what they're going to offer down the track or the not to distant future.

I am particularly interested in whether they will re-tool and produce the current Royal Train and Northern Belle sets...or is this wishful thinking?

[Bob Reid]

that video has revealed another flaw to my eyes.  those toilet windows look rather slim or squashed when they really have more of a square look to them.

 

the shot looking at the far end of the coach really shows up the undernourished bogie appearance.

 

please to see tinted glazing has made it into the models but its just not good enough when taking into account the bigger mistakes.

 

they look kind of OK from a distance but up close the eye starts to find the issues.

 

 

It's your eyes ToF! For all the faults, the size of the bodylights isn't one of them - they are pretty well bang on the money - give or take a scale gnats whisker and without removing the glazing I measured the width at circa 7mm on the TSO/FO & RUB -  they should be 7.034mm wide - nowt to write home about that's for sure.

 

What doesn't help is how visible the darker edge of the glazing moulding is - it does appear to visually pull the width in quite a bit....

[UP 4000]

Have to say some very interesting questions as of late, Hornby HST swallow with the Oxfords, Can't comment on that as I don't have Swallow HST's but the blue grey is way off,

Honesty being a MK3a running with HST wouldn't really bother me but colour wise definitely not, I'll carry on converting my Hornby HST stock to close couplings.

 

If Oxford do MK3's HST are they doing the loco's or colour matching Hornby's, also the Royal Train, they did have this on there survey way back when so it has been thought of,

If they do, I'll be going for it,