PECO Announces Bullhead Track for OO

[martin_wynne]

As someone else has indicated, I'd also prefer if the next point produced in this range was an extra large point.  I've made the decision to build my own points simply because the large point is not large enough.

 

It is not geometrically possible for Peco to produce a longer turnout within their existing 00/H0 geometry. Or at least not a sensible-looking turnout -- I suppose they could stretch the switch section a bit without changing the radius.

 

As I explained in the Minories topic, to achieve a 1" offset in 12 degrees of turn, the absolute maximum possible radius is 45.76". (Peco's claim that the "nominal" radius of their large radius turnouts is 5ft is meaningless). See: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/60091-00-minories-track-plan-wanted/page-20&do=findComment&comment=2853034

 

To create a longer turnout they would need to swap to the Code83 American style of geometry.

 

Which means nothing else in the 00/H0 range would match, not the diamond-crossings, slips, the 2" track spacing, etc. -- and more importantly it would not match with this first bullhead turnout either. It would not be possible to make a crossover using one of each. If they were going to do any of that they would have needed to have started as they meant to go on.

 

So I wouldn't hold my breath for anything longer than this first turnout. Shorter maybe.

 

Martin.

[coachmann]

It is not geometrically possible for Peco to produce a longer turnout within their existing 00/H0 geometry. Or at least not a sensible-looking turnout -- I suppose they could stretch the switch section a bit without changing the radius.

 

As I explained in the Minories topic, to achieve a 1" offset in 12 degrees of turn, the absolute maximum possible radius is 45.76". (Peco's claim that the "nominal" radius of their large radius turnouts is 5ft is meaningless). See: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/60091-00-minories-track-plan-wanted/page-20&do=findComment&comment=2853034

 

To create a longer turnout they would need to swap to the Code83 American style of geometry.

 

Which means nothing else in the 00/H0 range would match, not the diamond-crossings, slips, the 2" track spacing, etc. -- and more importantly it would not match with this first bullhead turnout either. It would not be possible to make a crossover using one of each. If they were going to do any of that they would have needed to have started as they meant to go on.

 

So I wouldn't hold my breath for anything longer than this first turnout. Shorter maybe.

 

Martin.

It wouldn't matter Martin, or at least it hasn't bothered folk using the code 83 range of Peco points. The Code 83 large radius #8 turnout has a 7.15" Angle. Obvously, two will form a smooth crossover but they cannot be used with the diamond to form a double junction.

 

The next radius down is the #6 (around 4' rad) with a 9.5 angle and this matches the ##6 diamond and #6 double slip.

The smallest turnout is the #5 with a 11.4 angle.

The 'Y' is a #4 14.3 angle and the curved points are #7 angle.

 

So you see, The Peco Code 83 range is not a wholly matching set and yet it apparently sells well enough for Peco to extend the range. I maintained right at the start of this thread than the #8 geometry would be great for a large radius bullhead point. There is far less toylike bogie swing on a 4-6-0 loco over a Code 83 large radius point than there is on a Code 75 large radius point. I would have thought he whole point of the bullhead range is to move to a more realistic appearance

[martin_wynne]

Looking at the switch in the Peco advert:

 

© Peco

 

it seems to be very acceptable within the limits of RTR production. I can imagine some track handbuilders might want to chop this part off to re-use in other formations with larger radii and flatter crossing angles.

 

It's clearly a flexible switch with solid blades, rather than the existing loose-heel stampings which I was expecting to see.

 

It's unfortunate that they have gone for a machined notch in the stock rail and thick blade tips seemingly machined on the back only. And the switch tips shouldn't be in fresh air overlapping the toe timber. They might be able to fix that in production.

 

But all that having been said, I've seen far worse in handbuilt track  before now, and you could hardly expect more at RTR prices and robust reliability.

 

Martin.

[martin_wynne]

Here we go. Re-using the Peco switch in a flatter 1:7 turnout:

 

 

Similarly by cutting more off the Peco turnout a 1:8 turnout could be built.

 

(Based on best available info and Peco downloadable templates).

 

Martin.

[martin_wynne]

So you see, The Peco Code 83 range is not a wholly matching set and yet it apparently sells well enough for Peco to extend the range.

 

Hi Larry,

 

The big difference there is that the American market provides a vast array of other makes of track products which match directly with the Peco Code 83 items. That's why Peco changed to Code 83 for the American market, moving a bit up-market from the other makes. They don't need to make a 1:7 slip, because almost certainly someone else does.

 

Here for example are some turnout kits which might give Peco ideas for the bullhead range:

 

 https://www.walthers.com/cvt-curvable-switch-kit-code-83-8-left

 

Martin.

[James Harrison]

Ticks all my boxes!  I also like how the promotional photo in RM also shows a couple of the fishplates/ railjoiners (I couldn't get my head around how they would look before just off of the CAD artwork).

[Pint of Adnams]

Hi Larry,

 

The big difference there is that the American market provides a vast array of other makes of track products which match directly with the Peco Code 83 items. That's why Peco changed to Code 83 for the American market, moving a bit up-market from the other makes. They don't need to make a 1:7 slip, because almost certainly someone else does.

 

Here for example are some turnout kits which might give Peco ideas for the bullhead range:

 

 https://www.walthers.com/cvt-curvable-switch-kit-code-83-8-left

 

Martin.

And around a tenner in real money, even if it's now made of plastic. Price bears no comparison.

[rob D2]

Are these points available yet ? Can't find any on hattons

[martin_wynne]

Are these points available yet ? Can't find any on hattons

 

Railway Modeller says they will be distributed to retailers within the currency of the current October issue, i.e. within the next 4-5 weeks. It is likely that initial supplies will be very limited.

 

Martin.

[ThaneofFife]

not sure if its been covered in any of the last 117 pages but it would be good to see how coaches fair when running through the new turnouts in terms of end swing either on a single or a crossover arrangement and whether the coaches stay in a better alignment to each other.

[martin_wynne]

not sure if its been covered in any of the last 117 pages but it would be good to see how coaches fair when running through the new turnouts in terms of end swing either on a single or a crossover arrangement and whether the coaches stay in a better alignment to each other.

 

They will be exactly the same as on existing Peco Large Radius turnouts. The new bullhead ones are exactly the same size.

 

Martin.

[AndyID]

not sure if its been covered in any of the last 117 pages but it would be good to see how coaches fair when running through the new turnouts in terms of end swing either on a single or a crossover arrangement and whether the coaches stay in a better alignment to each other.

 

I think I read that the geometry is the same as their Code 75 flat-bottom large radius turnout. It that's true the swing should be the same as it is with the FB range.

Snap!

[rob D2]

I'm actually excited - finally RTR points without those god forsaken hinge things on the blades.

 

This is a game changer for me and hopefully negates the need for handbukot track in future which coupled with pecos robustness should see me well into the future

[RANGERS]

Spoke with my chosen supplier this afternoon and he tells me he's expecting delivery of the new points during the first week in October, could even be this month, so we should all brace ourselves for the inevitable barrage of gratuitous criticism that their arrival is bound to generate.

 

Just for clarification, I'm told they won't be perfect scale replicas of the facing point on the up slow approaching Never Upham but they will be a good attempt at a typical bullhead point from the 20th century. Neither will they break easily, but they will work perfectly and satisfyingly for those who've already vowed never to buy them, they are likely to be in short supply initially, he already has orders for more than 50 but doesn't expect to get that number with the first delivery, so the more of those doubters who don't buy, the more will be left for those of us who have waited a long time to see a decent, scale point available off the shelf!

[steve45]

Spoke with my chosen supplier this afternoon and he tells me he's expecting delivery of the new points during the first week in October, could even be this month, so we should all brace ourselves for the inevitable barrage of gratuitous criticism that their arrival is bound to generate.

 

Just for clarification, I'm told they won't be perfect scale replicas of the facing point on the up slow approaching Never Upham but they will be a good attempt at a typical bullhead point from the 20th century. Neither will they break easily, but they will work perfectly and satisfyingly for those who've already vowed never to buy them, they are likely to be in short supply initially, he already has orders for more than 50 but doesn't expect to get that number with the first delivery, so the more of those doubters who don't buy, the more will be left for those of us who have waited a long time to see a decent, scale point available off the shelf!

 

Did he mention anything on price?

Edited September 21, 2017 by steve45

[martin_wynne]

Spoke with my chosen supplier this afternoon and he tells me he's expecting delivery of the new points during the first week in October, could even be this month, so we should all brace ourselves for the inevitable barrage of gratuitous criticism that their arrival is bound to generate.

 

Just for clarification, I'm told they won't be perfect scale replicas of the facing point on the up slow approaching Never Upham but they will be a good attempt at a typical bullhead point from the 20th century. Neither will they break easily, but they will work perfectly and satisfyingly for those who've already vowed never to buy them, they are likely to be in short supply initially, he already has orders for more than 50 but doesn't expect to get that number with the first delivery, so the more of those doubters who don't buy, the more will be left for those of us who have waited a long time to see a decent, scale point available off the shelf!

 

After getting that lot off your chest, perhaps you could point to anywhere in this topic that these products have been subject to a "barrage of gratuitous criticism"?

 

And just to clarify, yes "they will be a good attempt at a typical bullhead turnout from the 20th century" -- within the limits of the Peco geometry and low-cost production.

 

Martin.

[AndyID]

Spoke with my chosen supplier this afternoon and he tells me he's expecting delivery of the new points during the first week in October, could even be this month, so we should all brace ourselves for the inevitable barrage of gratuitous criticism that their arrival is bound to generate.

 

Just for clarification, I'm told they won't be perfect scale replicas of the facing point on the up slow approaching Never Upham but they will be a good attempt at a typical bullhead point from the 20th century. Neither will they break easily, but they will work perfectly and satisfyingly for those who've already vowed never to buy them, they are likely to be in short supply initially, he already has orders for more than 50 but doesn't expect to get that number with the first delivery, so the more of those doubters who don't buy, the more will be left for those of us who have waited a long time to see a decent, scale point available off the shelf!

 

At least Peco doesn't appear to have taken umbrage (like so many others). Peco seems to have taken advantage of critical observations in this thread and included some of them in the production version of their turnout. I think it looks very nice too.

 

BTW, this is a forum. Despite what many people seem to think it's not a Peco fan-club.

[Gilbert]

"they will be a good attempt at a typical bullhead turnout from the 20th century" -- within the limits of the Peco geometry and low-cost production"

 

For which I expect to be very grateful!

[RANGERS]

After getting that lot off your chest, perhaps you could point to anywhere in this topic that these products have been subject to a "barrage of gratuitous criticism"?

 

And just to clarify, yes "they will be a good attempt at a typical bullhead turnout from the 20th century" -- within the limits of the Peco geometry and low-cost production.

 

Martin.

Who said there's been any?

 

Like I say, wait until they're around.

[Roy Langridge]

Who said there's been any?

 

Like I say, wait until they're around.

I think we were all well aware of what we are getting, know the good, know the bad. In general, we are all looking forward to them.

 

I have a whole layout on hold until they are available, 20' x 3' of baseboards sitting there all naked and embarrassed. I can't wait.

 

Roy

[RANGERS]

I think we were all well aware of what we are getting, know the good, know the bad. In general, we are all looking forward to them.

 

I have a whole layout on hold until they are available, 20' x 3' of baseboards sitting there all naked and embarrassed. I can't wait.

 

Roy

Me too!

[Going2theDogs]

Ditto.

[steve45]

And me!

[NIRCLASS80]

And me!

[Mike Storey]

Looks very good to me, and worth waiting for. Strange how none (?) of the big boys is yet offering them on pre-order. (unless someone has seen something I have missed?)