Bachmann 2016 Announcements

[Ozexpatriate]

When these were family owned companies they could make decisions with a bit of heart, as soon as shareholders and investment  companies drive the business the only heart is for ethical issues that make the brand look bad and affect sales.

I would invite you to look at the names of some of the people who are listed as directors of Kader Holdings. But I understand and agree with your point. Kader Holdings is first and foremost a business, and it is run as such.

[tractionman]

"My own view is that the answer to rising prices is to buy less and be selective".

 

Same here. I pushed the boat out and bought the Bachmann Patriot a week or so ago, £120, and that was the lowest price I could find but pushing me to the limit of what I can spend on one loco, but now I have it, boy oh boy am I chuffed with it! Looks fantastic and runs beautifully.

 

So for me buying less but paying for quality is something I can live with.

 

Now, what were those 2016 announcements...?

 

Cheers,

 

Keith

[Ozexpatriate]

As the Stationmaster has pointed out, the current Bachmann price rises are almost certainly the result of a number of factors. Some of these are outside their control, some are within their control and some of it is they're just charging what they believe the market will support. ... What I do object to is the way they've wrapped it all in a simplistic argument about labour costs as that is just one factor of many and to me is rather disingenuous.

I'm not convinced that 'pricing what the market will bear' is quite as significant a factor as you might think, though doubtless it contributes somewhat.

 

Athearn just released this. I saw the fully loaded sound version in a shop yesterday. It is exquisite. The non-sound version retails for US$319.98 / £221.  This price point is far and above any comparable UK RRP. (Bachmann's most expensive model is the A2 with an RRP of £179.95.

 

Now of course that price will be discounted by the retailer, but this is the US market where conventional wisdom suggests volumes might be larger and pricing would reflect that. (I'm not convinced that is true on a per model basis by the way.) 

[Ozexpatriate]

I think that the world is in economic chaos.

There is chaos and there is chaos I was thinking of, but I didn't want to make a political observation.

 

If everybody did that across the board (not confined solely to model railways) the entire world economy which, under the stewardship of the "Masters of the Universe" in Wall Street, has essentially become a gargantuan game of Musical Chairs, would collapse.

There is a theory that suggests this has already happened.

[brushman47544]

Trouble with Hornbys add ons in particular is that the plastic is that fragile / brittle they typically go missing; spent a good few frustrating minutes trying to find my bag of 4mm whistles (to no avail yet) to replace that which has broken on my T9. Do not want moulded details that should be clearly a part in their own right but equally they should be of appropriate materials - if that means paying an exytra quid for a metal whistle, fine. I picked on the Bachmann Standard 4 tank as an example as having taken one apart it seemed to be that their ought to have been a simpler way of putting it together and a simpler way of getting the body off, it would only need slight retooling to allow for the boiler top to be a separately fitted part which when removed gave access to the motor and dcc socket without having to take the whole body off together with the minefield of pipework. As it is I have left an internal screw off which means the boiler top, cab front and roof is held on by one screw only making access to the motor/decoder very simple - still think I've got something wrong with the pipework arrangement when I put it back together.

 

I managed to remove a decoder from one and refit it to another Standard 4 tank without removing the body or pipework. Needs care and the speedo cable is at great risk of snapping, but it can be done. Managed the same with a Railroad A4 too.

[Coryton]

There is a theory that suggests this has already happened.

 

Don't Panic!

[dibber25]

I'm not convinced that 'pricing what the market will bear' is quite as significant a factor as you might think, though doubtless it contributes somewhat.

 

Athearn just released this. I saw the fully loaded sound version in a shop yesterday. It is exquisite. The non-sound version retails for US$319.98 / £221.  This price point is far and above any comparable UK RRP. (Bachmann's most expensive model is the A2 with an RRP of £179.95.

 

Now of course that price will be discounted by the retailer, but this is the US market where conventional wisdom suggests volumes might be larger and pricing would reflect that. (I'm not convinced that is true on a per model basis by the way.) 

'Conventional wisdom' is a strange thing and it can be very out of touch because it tends not to change with the times. In recent years I've seen nothing to support the conventional wisdom regarding the size of the American market and I've seen quite a bit of evidence to suggest that per capita of population, railway modelling is a much less popular hobby in the USA and Canada than it is in the UK, resulting in a market that, size-wise is not so different from our own. Where the USA does score is that modellers are much less demanding over the correct detail/livery combinations, meaning that manufacturers can readily sell an array of liveries on a model that does not have correct detail for that livery, and can blithely put liveries on incorrect locomotive types, for instance, making longer more economical runs possible and so keeping prices reined in. (CJL)

[Budgie]

Where the USA does score is that modellers are much less demanding over the correct detail/livery combinations, meaning that manufacturers can readily sell an array of liveries on a model that does not have correct detail for that livery, and can blithely put liveries on incorrect locomotive types, for instance, making longer more economical runs possible and so keeping prices reined in. (CJL)

In that case can I have a 4-TC in green, please?

[Willie Whizz]

'Conventional wisdom' is a strange thing and it can be very out of touch because it tends not to change with the times. In recent years I've seen nothing to support the conventional wisdom regarding the size of the American market and I've seen quite a bit of evidence to suggest that per capita of population, railway modelling is a much less popular hobby in the USA and Canada than it is in the UK, resulting in a market that, size-wise is not so different from our own. Where the USA does score is that modellers are much less demanding over the correct detail/livery combinations, meaning that manufacturers can readily sell an array of liveries on a model that does not have correct detail for that livery, and can blithely put liveries on incorrect locomotive types, for instance, making longer more economical runs possible and so keeping prices reined in. (CJL)

 

Interesting this, because "conventional wisdom" also has it that many items (clothing, electronic gadgets etc.) are typically more expensive in the UK than their equivalents or comparators in the USA (as a 'rule of thumb', roughly by a level roughly equivalent to British VAT even after application of local State sales taxes).

[adb968008]

Interesting this, because "conventional wisdom" also has it that many items (clothing, electronic gadgets etc.) are typically more expensive in the UK than their equivalents or comparators in the USA (as a 'rule of thumb', roughly by a level roughly equivalent to British VAT even after application of local State sales taxes).

 

Depends where you are in the US, in recent years the US has had considerable inflation.

Prices there aren't always what they were, and more recently food portion size has shrunk too. :-)

 

gadgets / clothes / cars / gas and restaurant food are generally cheaper (i.e. anything mass produced to serve an English or Spanish speaking 350mn populous market), but bespoke and limited run stuff can be expensive, in some cases much more expensive than over here.  

Going to a supermarket in the US and doing a weekly shop can be an eye opener to a European at the check out.. and explains the eating out culture.

[autocoach]

Depends where you are in the US, in recent years the US has had considerable inflation.

 

Prices there aren't always what they were, and more recently food portion size has shrunk too. :-)

  

Going to a supermarket in the US and doing a weekly shop can be an eye opener to a European at the check out.. and explains the eating out culture.

Gas/auto fuel/petrol is sooo much cheaper(even here in California with special anti pollution blends) , but then you have to drive everywhere there being no or minimal public transit. Most 20th century US development did not use the village model where you could live in a self contained unit with stores and pubs close by. 

 

Food portions shrinking is a positive given that they are often so gargantuan that you can take enough home for two more meals. If you have to drive everywhere and food portions are excessive, you can guess that a large portion of the populace is also large. Typical supermarkets are overpriced.  Whole Foods chain is well known as the Whole Paycheck market. There are local markets that would make Harrods look cheap.

 

Fast food in most of the US is not what I would call eating out.  It is self poisoning.  But then I live in the SF Bay Area where food is taken very seriously (actually the whole Pacific coast up north to BC) sometimes way too seriously. Small portions are necessary to keep the elite svelte and fit and keep the image of California dreaming alive.....

 

But this has nothing to do with Bachmann's current UK prices.  And even less in terms of interest in their recent offerings as I model the far western reaches of the Southern before nationalization but after WW 2. I have learned from experience that if it did not run to Padstow in 1946-47, I will generally not purchase.

[faa77]

Any news on those Bachmann Bitumen TTAs? I havent even seen a photo of the actual model, all websites just use a real TTA photo.

[adb968008]

Gas/auto fuel/petrol is sooo much cheaper(even here in California with special anti pollution blends) , but then you have to drive everywhere there being no or minimal public transit. Most 20th century US development did not use the village model where you could live in a self contained unit with stores and pubs close by. 

 

Food portions shrinking is a positive given that they are often so gargantuan that you can take enough home for two more meals. If you have to drive everywhere and food portions are excessive, you can guess that a large portion of the populace is also large. Typical supermarkets are overpriced.  Whole Foods chain is well known as the Whole Paycheck market. There are local markets that would make Harrods look cheap.

 

Fast food in most of the US is not what I would call eating out.  It is self poisoning.  But then I live in the SF Bay Area where food is taken very seriously (actually the whole Pacific coast up north to BC) sometimes way too seriously. Small portions are necessary to keep the elite svelte and fit and keep the image of California dreaming alive.....

 

But this has nothing to do with Bachmann's current UK prices.  And even less in terms of interest in their recent offerings as I model the far western reaches of the Southern before nationalization but after WW 2. I have learned from experience that if it did not run to Padstow in 1946-47, I will generally not purchase.

 

I relate to your post very well.

I lived in CA94130-1324  for 5 years... you need the Muni from Transbay and 1/2 dozen people combined to get a pizza delivered.  (Thats Treasure Island in new money). I understand the neighbourhood there declined somewhat in recent years, but at least now it has a cell phone signal.

 

When I moved back to the UK I brought half the bay area's model shops' stock with me. Thus today I have a collection of US/UK & predominantly Eastern European stuff reflecting where I've lived.

 

in a vague attempt to bring it back to topic.. flip side back in 1998 I was one of the first to be selling UK model railways on ebay.. most of it  Bachmann stuff exported from Hattons :-)

 

anyways enough nostalgia back to topic before someone notices. :-)

[Ozexpatriate]

In recent years I've seen nothing to support the conventional wisdom regarding the size of the American market and I've seen quite a bit of evidence to suggest that per capita of population, railway modelling is a much less popular hobby in the USA and Canada than it is in the UK, resulting in a market that, size-wise is not so different from our own.

Chris, I completely agree. Certainly from a pricing standpoint, High-end US pricing was demonstrably higher, before recent fluctuations of the GBP, than comparable UK pricing which blows away the whole 'larger market' premise.

 

Where the USA does score is that modellers are much less demanding over the correct detail/livery combinations, meaning that manufacturers can readily sell an array of liveries on a model that does not have correct detail for that livery, and can blithely put liveries on incorrect locomotive types, for instance, making longer more economical runs possible and so keeping prices reined in. (CJL)

Yes and no. On average, yes, I'd say that the US model railroad community is less discriminating in their purchases. Manufacturers on the other hand are doing much more than ever to faithfully reproduce the prototype. The distinction I see is that this is a selling point for the manufacturers (as opposed to a 'must have' by consumers).  Manufacturers are commanding (and getting) higher prices with this detail.

[JSpencer]

'Conventional wisdom' is a strange thing and it can be very out of touch because it tends not to change with the times. In recent years I've seen nothing to support the conventional wisdom regarding the size of the American market and I've seen quite a bit of evidence to suggest that per capita of population, railway modelling is a much less popular hobby in the USA and Canada than it is in the UK, resulting in a market that, size-wise is not so different from our own. Where the USA does score is that modellers are much less demanding over the correct detail/livery combinations, meaning that manufacturers can readily sell an array of liveries on a model that does not have correct detail for that livery, and can blithely put liveries on incorrect locomotive types, for instance, making longer more economical runs possible and so keeping prices reined in. (CJL)

Is it possible that the US market used to be a lot bigger than the UK one only now it has shrunked drastically?

[Coryton]

'Conventional wisdom' is a strange thing and it can be very out of touch because it tends not to change with the times. In recent years I've seen nothing to support the conventional wisdom regarding the size of the American market and I've seen quite a bit of evidence to suggest that per capita of population, railway modelling is a much less popular hobby in the USA and Canada than it is in the UK, resulting in a market that, size-wise is not so different from our own. Where the USA does score is that modellers are much less demanding over the correct detail/livery combinations, meaning that manufacturers can readily sell an array of liveries on a model that does not have correct detail for that livery, and can blithely put liveries on incorrect locomotive types, for instance, making longer more economical runs possible and so keeping prices reined in. (CJL)

 

I certainly got the feeling when in the US in the late 90's that an interest in railways was more rare than in the UK.

 

Enough people were interested in trains that railway magazines existed and could be bought easily enough in regular shops.

 

But I got a cab ride on a tourist railway just because - unlike everyone else - I made the effort to go and look at the locomotive (a diesel switcher). (In fact the loco crew and the conductor separately offered me the cab ride - amusingly the loco crew told me to make sure the conductor didn't see me get in.)

 

And on another occasion on a passenger train when the driver realised I was only along for the ride I was invited into the cab (which was entertaining as the driver was also acting as dispatcher for the line, giving himself permission to travel between mileposts such-and-such).

 

And I've just remembered that on a long distance Amtrak journey, I went down the platform to have a look at the private car that was being shunted (switched?) onto the train and again my reward from its crew for showing an interest was getting to ride in it for a while. (Amazing that you can - or could then - still pay to have your personal carriage put on the back of a train).

 

Maybe I got lucky, but it gave the impression that in each case the staff weren't used to people showing an interest.

[adb968008]

My experiences as a Brit living and working across the US (I got through 45 states over 5 years living and a further 10 years as a business visitor in the US) is that railroading as a hobby is there, larger in some states  (east and west) lesser so in the middle. But to appreciate railroading in the US you have to appreciate the sheer size of the US.

 

I thought nothing of going on a 4 hour freeway drive from San Francisco to the Western Pacific railroad museum 250 miles away at Portola.. but Portola itself is in a location akin to say going to Ullapool in Scotland !  - the museum is fantastic, located in an extremely rural area with a populace of 2000 people.. most of whom work for Union Pacific.

 

Indeed the Bay Area of SF is blessed comparatively to other parts of the US (Sacramento, SF Muni PCCs, Woodland, Rio Vista, WPRR, Jamestown etc etc)... Head west into Ohio from Pennsylvania and it's a long lonely museum railroad free experience.

 

But if your in some of the remoter parts... there just isn't the populace nor is it "a day out".. The museum that is home to 60008 in Wisconsin is a hell of a drive from Chicago !

 

I had some absolutely great experiences in the US with museum shortlines, but unless your local it needs to research and effort to do it. If it applies to an enthusiastic tourist from Britain on a day off.. then it's the same effort from mom & pop down the road.., but once it's beyond city limits the line tends to be largely unknown unless it's one of the more established lines on a known tourist trail.

 

Overall though the volume of steam shortlines is considerable, almost all were 1 loco in steam or diesel (and I never saw a working semaphore signal in my 15 years navigating the US). Some railroads have 1 train a day but can be considerably longer than a typical UK steam line... Durango and Silverton is 45 miles long.

 

Now reflect that to model railroading.. well it's definitely a larger market and more disparate (its a continent not a country) and US model shops can in some cases be of a size even Tescos would compete with !, but I feel the aftermarket is much less (I fear it ends in the trash much more than in the UK) so the new market is less undercut by the old.

 

Maybe the easiest metric is ebay itself..

on the US ebay site, there are 244k items listed tonight in HO model railways, 62k of them are marked as 'Used' for a country of 350million people.

on the UK ebay site, there are 104k items listed tonight in 00 model railways, 44k of them are marked as 'Used' for a country of 60million people.

 

BUT

on the Canadian ebay site, there are 3,701 (yes that is 3.7k) items listed tonight in Canada* in HO model railways, 1,175 of them are marked as 'Used' for a country of 35million people.

* there are 244k items on ebay Canada under HO.. however most are sales import from the US... Canadian railroad sellers either don't use ebay Canada or simply don't exist.

 

 

by comparison

on the Germany ebay site, there are 274k items listed tonight in H0 model railways, 92k of them are marked as 'Used' for a country of 80million people.

on pan-european ebay sales listing, there are 334k items listed tonight in H0 model railways, 118k of them are marked as 'Used' (Sellers listing on all European sites)

Globally tonight, on all scales there are 1,028,359 listings available to UK buyers... there's a lot of models out there.

 

Bringing this back to Bachmann.. a HO scale search for 'Bachmann' lists 15k items on the US site, 10k in '00' in the UK, 1k under 'Lilliput' + 387 under 'Bachmann' on ebay.de, 245 in Canada and a UK based global search has 25k under HO and OO combined.

 

Chew the numbers as you will.

[hmrspaul]

 

Maybe I got lucky, but it gave the impression that in each case the staff weren't used to people showing an interest.

 

I had a few days in Washington in June 1988 and went down to Potomac yard, breezed up to the control tower and on asking to be permitted to photograph some wagons I was accompanied by an armed policeman. He insisted  I see inside a caboose complete with bunks and cooking range.

 

And in Vancouver a similar request was met with freedom to look around, and a parting gift of a full freight wagon stock list for Canadian National. Rather different to the Western Region whom were very reluctant to provide passes to visit any of their yards.

 

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/americanwagon

 

Similarly looking at the Royal Hudson on the front of a tourist train I was invited into the enormous cab to have a look around - never had that offer on any British heritage railway! http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/americanloco/e5c7d7ba0

 

Paul

 

PS a more recent visit gave me a few minutes to drop into a model shop in Savannah - it was packed with good quality brass locomotives, mostly 2nd hand. They explained that they had sold all of this stuff over years to one customer, and now he had died it had all come back for resale [Which reminds me I should scan the photos I took in the Savannah museum sometime]

[jjb1970]

I think many US outline suppliers now do produce railroad specific models. At one time they're offer a generic SD40-2 or whatever and apply any livery but nowadays most of the better models do reflect the particular variations of each customer. In a way lines such as Athearn Genesis, Broadway, Rapido etc are more the inheritors of the US brass segment than the old Athearn bluebox and Bachmann models. At one time US brass was a thriving market with more releases than you could shake a stick at, by the early 00's typical brass releases had gone from production runs in the low 100's to barely breaking into double figures and what brass is still produced (Broadway brass hybrid excepted) is a tiny niche. US outline models have shot up in price but so has the quality of RTR plastic. I find the Broadway brass hybrid series to be particularly interesting as they offer that finish and presence that plastic cannot match (to me anyway) at prices that are a lot more palatable than full fat brass.

 

On the popularity of model railways as a hobby, the country that is generally ignored here but which supports a very large hobby with some fabulous models is Japan. Mainly N gauge but the quality and range of Japanese N gauge is outstanding and model shops are still common. There are still quite a few department stores that sell models, at one time that was common in the UK but I'm not sure that I can remember the last time I visited a department store with a good model section.

[Coryton]

 

Similarly looking at the Royal Hudson on the front of a tourist train I was invited into the enormous cab to have a look around - never had that offer on any British heritage railway! http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/americanloco/e5c7d7ba0

 

 

I had an experience not unlike that - on a long distance Amtrak train which had a long stop while changing from an electric to diesel locomotive. I went down the platform to look at the diesel which had just been put on. The driver climbed down from the cab, told me I could get in and have a look around the cab if I wanted, and wandered off. I did of course.

 

This was before September 11th, so to speak.

 

I've never been invited onto the footplate on a preserved line in the UK, but (early 2000's) I happened to come across a steam excursion in Kings Cross, and they were inviting anyone interested onto the footplate - the only time I've been on the footplate of a steam engine while in steam.

[coachmann]

The latest Bachmann steam loco arrival is the LMS Ivatt Cl.2 2-6-2T. Now I assumed this would have a new chassis at least and hopefully a retooled body to the Ivatt  Cl.2 2-6-0 standard. Maybe Rails is using old photos?  Anyone know different?  

[Black 5 Bear]

The latest Bachmann steam loco arrival is the LMS Ivatt Cl.2 2-6-2T. Now I assumed this would have a new chassis at least and hopefully a retooled body to the Ivatt Cl.2 2-6-0 standard. Maybe Rails is using old photos? Anyone know different?

 

From what I've been told, this new release features a totally new chassis, but the body dates from the earlier moulding. As in the case of the V2, I'll wait until Bachmann produce the totally revamped version of each loco.

[Andy W]

The latest Bachmann steam loco arrival is the LMS Ivatt Cl.2 2-6-2T. Now I assumed this would have a new chassis at least and hopefully a retooled body to the Ivatt  Cl.2 2-6-0 standard. Maybe Rails is using old photos?  Anyone know different?  

Bachmann have always advertised it as having a new chassis, but they make it clear that the body has not been retooled. This is part of their programme of not simply re-running models originally released with split chassis, but instead designing a new DCC-ready chassis to fit the existing body tooling. The recently released V1/V3 2-6-2T was just the same, and the J39, J72 and parallel-boiler Royal Scot are in the same pipeline

Rails sent me an advertising email today saying the Ivatt 2-6-2Ts are expected in the next few days, so they haven't got them yet, and probably won't have photographed them themselves despite the copyright info on the photos!. Photos are most probably supplied by Bachmann, or of the split-chassis model with the running numbers photo-shopped.

[coachmann]

I expect the new chassis will be immediately identifiable as having a slidebar support bracket and much better wheels, while the body will look bl**dy awful.... 

[bertiedog]

Bachmann via Hattons are giving dates for the Brighton Atlantic and the Birdcages at May 2017 for both items, ( isn't the Chinese year so flexibly elastic!)

 

Stephen