Cooper craft - Cautionary notes for customers - Its fate and thoughts on an alternative

[Dava]

Businesses such as this have been described as being the walking dead, a zombie business. Having seen the stand at Nottingham it seems an accurate description.

 

Dava

[sandwich station]

What a waste, not being able to get hold of Ian's kits anymore.

[Jol Wilkinson]

I think there may be bigger fish persuing that route. From what I have heard, I am surprised it is still going. I suppose someone is just hoping something will sort itself out, but maybe it is time for the hobby to come up with a plan, rather than just sitting back and grumbling.

Unfortunately, asking the hobby to come up with a plan is a bit pointless. Who is/are "the hobby"? And in what sort of plan will the owner of CooperCraft be willing to participate?

 

Despite all the protestations, complaints and  solutions so far provided, it would seem that the current owner doesn't want help. Perhaps if someone from this thread knocked on his door and had a conversation with him, then things might become clearer and possibly move forward. Unless/until that happens, then I don't see anything changing.

[Joseph_Pestell]

If someone were to bring a small claims court action against this chap, the judge would certainly be interested to know that people have sought to help the guy but he has refused that help.

[Clive Mortimore]

The stand on Sunday did not have the look of a up and go business, but then neither did its owner.

[Ravenser]

I think there may be bigger fish persuing that route. From what I have heard, I am surprised it is still going. I suppose someone is just hoping something will sort itself out, but maybe it is time for the hobby to come up with a plan, rather than just sitting back and grumbling.

 

I would suggest that the only plan that the hobby could come up with at this stage is the traders behind other ranges of 4mm coaches and wagons producing kits of their own for vehicles covered by the erstwhile Coopercraft ranges

 

There has traditionally been an understanding amongst small traders that if something is already in someone else's range you don't go there. I suggest the most constructive thing the hobby could now do is to agree collectively that this principle no longer applies to anything which has been made by Coopercraft , and it's open season on anything in his list that might be commercially viable

 

Otherwise the Norwegian  Blue Appreciation  Society thread will roll on for ever.

 

This range is an ex-range

[Compound2632]

I would suggest that the only plan that the hobby could come up with at this stage is the traders behind other ranges of 4mm coaches and wagons producing kits of their own for vehicles covered by the erstwhile Coopercraft ranges

 

There has traditionally been an understanding amongst small traders that if something is already in someone else's range you don't go there. I suggest the most constructive thing the hobby could now do is to agree collectively that this principle no longer applies to anything which has been made by Coopercraft , and it's open season on anything in his list that might be commercially viable

 

Otherwise the Norwegian  Blue Appreciation  Society thread will roll on for ever.

 

This range is an ex-range

 

And indeed we're starting to see that happen where both the Slater's MR wagons and Ratio LNWR wagons are concerned although we have to accept that small-scale production with modern standards of accuracy and detail do come at a price - but a price commensurate with the cost of buying the old ranges on Ebay. Thank-you Mr Bedford, please press on!

[Jol Wilkinson]

 

There has traditionally been an understanding amongst small traders that if something is already in someone else's range you don't go there. 

 

That used to be so, more than it is today. Increasingly some Small Suppliers are happy to duplicate other peoples products, especially where they think they can provide a better kit/model. The definition of better may mean more complex, dearer, incorporate new but inappropriate production technology, etc.

[stock_2007]

Well I don't know the in's and out's of what's going on with Coopercraft, but what I do know is I paid money for a kit that was shown to be in stock and I've received nothing not even a answer to

my e-mails. If I say what I'm thinking right now I may get asked to leave.

[chris p bacon]

Well I don't know the in's and out's of what's going on with Coopercraft, but what I do know is I paid money for a kit that was shown to be in stock and I've received nothing not even a answer to

my e-mails. If I say what I'm thinking right now I may get asked to leave.

I have no sympathy with the owner.

 

If you paid by Paypal approach them about non delivery of goods, same with a CC.  I'd also report to trading standards

[Colin_McLeod]

You are entitled to a refund. I suggest forget about ever getting the item and write to ask for a refund within 14 days or threaten legal action

Then if no refund follow up with a small claims application.

 

 

Edit for typo

Edited March 21, 2017 by Colin_McLeod

[Siberian Snooper]

There is at least one other thread on here about the lack of communication or goods from Cooper craft. I believe it's the locked thread Kits from Somerset or similar.

[teaky]

There is at least one other thread on here about the lack of communication or goods from Cooper craft. I believe it's the locked thread Kits from Somerset or similar.

I think the thread included Coopercraft in the title and Kits From Somerset was the proprietor's user name (which he seems to have lost interest in using).

[Daddyman]

Well I don't know the in's and out's of what's going on with Coopercraft, but what I do know is I paid money for a kit that was shown to be in stock and I've received nothing not even a answer to

my e-mails. If I say what I'm thinking right now I may get asked to leave.

I had something similar a couple of years ago over the NER hopper wagons. I paid via the website and then he told me "me machine's broke" but that it would be fixed soon. I gave him a few months then got back in touch to hear "me machine's still broke". I asked would he supply the wagons without the axleboxes, as that was the part he couldn't make, and he agreed. Another month and nothing. Then I asked for a refund and again he agreed. Another month or two and nothing. As with all people like this, I only got anywhere with him once I swore at him - money was back in my account the next day.

 

But then in the past year or so my dad ordered the hoppers, which the website still shows as for sale; not being a user of rmweb and not listening to me ever, he was unaware of the issues with supply from Coopercraft. He hadn't used paypal so refund was tricky (but a small price to pay for not giving business to Trump supporters - paypal, not Coopercraft). We went to the bank in the end and they gave us a number to ring to get the money back. 

[Joseph_Pestell]

Keep in mind that any defended County Court action will take place at the defendant's home court. So it would be best that anyone wishing to start an action as an example on behalf of the rest of the hobby, lives locally.

[Arthur]

(but a small price to pay for not giving business to Trump supporters - paypal, not Coopercraft).

 

 

You might want to check your facts, this False News was a typical unthinking Twitter led campaign of the self righteous.

 

ONE of PayPals FOUNDERS, Peter Thiel, donated around a million dollars of his own money to Trump in 2016, fourteen years after severing links with PayPal.

 

He has had NO involvement with PayPal since it was sold in 2002. It has subsequently been owned by eBay and was spun off as an independent company in 2015.

 

He does have investments in some other high profile web companies but owns none of them.

 

PayPal have rather more offended the conservatives through their support for the LGBT community in North Carolina amongst other liberal initiatives.

 

.

Edited March 22, 2017 by Arthur

[Daddyman]

You might want to check your facts, this False News was a typical unthinking Twitter led campaign of the self righteous.

 

ONE of PayPals FOUNDERS, Peter Thiel, donated around a million dollars of his own money to Trump in 2016, fourteen years after severing links with PayPal.

 

He has had NO involvement with PayPal since it was sold in 2002. It has subsequently been owned by eBay and was spun off as an independent company in 2015.

 

He does have investments in some other high profile web companies but owns none of them.

 

PayPal have rather more offended the conservatives through their support for the LGBT community in North Carolina amongst other liberal initiatives.

 

.

Thanks, didn't know that and you're absolutely right. Interesting that as well as the left-leaning papers, even the Telegraph still refers to him as "Paypal founder" when they mention his support for Trump, when his links to Payal are now irrelevant. It's lazy reporting and my inattentive reading led me into the trap. Thanks for the correction - though I would be careful with the term "self-righteous" - it's often used by the morally lazy to attack those who are worried by the new fascism. 

 

Seems like it's safe to cross PP off my sh*tlist? 

Edited March 22, 2017 by Daddyman

[billbedford]

You are entitled to a refund. I suggest forget about ever getting the item and write to ask for a refund within 14 days or threaten legal action

Then if no refund follow up with a small claims application.

 

 

 

Getting a judgment against someone's the easy part. Getting them to pay up, especially if it is for relatively small sums is very much harder. And getting them to change their business practices is a whole different ball game.

[meil]

Getting a judgment against someone's the easy part. Getting them to pay up, especially if it is for relatively small sums is very much harder. And getting them to change their business practices is a whole different ball game.

I consider that said Coopercraft man has stepped out of the civil domain and well into the criminal arena of fraud. Its about time his collar was felt.

[Joseph_Pestell]

I consider that said Coopercraft man has stepped out of the civil domain and well into the criminal arena of fraud. Its about time his collar was felt.

You may  well be right. That said, I know of some far worse cases that have not resulted in criminal prosecution, so I would not be optimistic of making that stick.

[Edwardian]

Few people appreciate this, but so-called "Fake News" was pioneered by the Coopercraft website.

 

I agree that it is not realistic to talk of criminal sanctions.  Failure to supply goods in consideration of payment is really a civil matter unless there is fraud.

 

The two courses of action that suggest themselves are (a) contacting Trading Standards (who, by the way, have the power to prosecute where appropriate), and (b) the Small Claims Court.

 

While I know what Bill Bedford says about the challenge of enforcement is all too true, an unsatisfied County Court Judgment (CCJ) is no laughing matter, as it seriously dents the judgment debtor's credit rating.  Another very unpleasant consequence is the ability to transfer the judgment up to the High Court (for a fee of £66) for enforcement by High Court Bailiffs.  

 

The word "coopercraft" is unknown to Companies House, so it would appear that customers appear to be dealing with the business owner as a sole trader, trading under the style of Coopercraft.  This means that the owner cannot limit his personal liability by walking away from a failed company.  The liability would be personal and his personal assets available for enforcement. 

 

Often I find a well-written formal letter before claim by a solicitor is enough of a shock the system to produce payment.  For those unwise enough not to comply, life can be made very much more unpleasant.

 

If anyone is sufficiently exercised to want to recover the money owed to them by the trader, I would be happy to point them in the right direction.

 

Sadly in life, some people do need a bit of encouragement to do the right thing. My job is to provide that encouragement.

[Crantock]

We seem to have been ranting on about Coopercraft for ages.  Two observations:

 

1) We are a mighty civilised, or very timid, bunch in that he can rock up at shows and yet does not face any unpleasantries, harrassment etc.

 

2) But should he be invited to shows and do they limit him to selling for goods on display as opposed to taking orders to be delivered in some distant time?

 

I really do think shows should place such a restriction and even then the very presence is advertising which the trade should freeze where there is a history of non-delivery.

[Colin_McLeod]

I don't really want to stir this up again, but Coopercraft/Mailcoach/whoever had a stand at Nottingham yesterday. About two ex Slaters kits there, everything else etched.  

 

I was going to raise the subject of my payment being taken via the website and goods not being supplied (well over a year ago) but life is too short and I've had a bypass -

 

That's how he is able to get away with it. He relies on people saying nothing even when they have the chance to speak with him face to face.

[jjb1970]

Initially I extended the benefit of the doubt and thought that the guy was either out of his depth or just plain incompetent to run a business. I think it has gone beyond that and to be honest it is hard to not feel that there is something worse than incompetence at work here

[billbedford]

The problem with this discussion is that any action that customers take is likely, eventually, to lead to the demise of Coopercraft as a viable business. This is likely to result in his products being permanently unavailable.  As far as I can see this is not the outcome that most people who have commented here would want.