Where next for the Class 442s?

[bescotbeast]

The failings of the 442s have been listed by my son as door problems, wiring problems, window seals need replacing (a problem I noticed on a 313 recently), and generally run down and knackered.

 

Window rubber has a life of about 25-30 years tops, and that has been reached. I see how many vintage buses come to me for repairs and the windows are hanging out because the rubber is life-expired.

Most of the time a 442 came out of traffic into Lovers it was due to a door/interlock issue.

[DavidB-AU]

ScotRail won't be storing anything. I'm sure there will be a couple of spares kept at Haymarket(?) but only just enough to cover failures. They will lease whatever they need from the ROSCO. If they want to increase to 2+6 they will simply lease more coaches. It's up to whoever owns them to store them.

 

Remembering of course they will be refurbished before going north of the border, including getting power doors, so there would be a bit of a lead time to leasing more.

 

Cheers

David

[John M Upton]

This afternoon's excitement at Barnham: (Video - Click to view)

Rail Operations Group Class 47/8 47812 and Class 442 Wessex Electric EMU 442409 Barnham 20/9/16 by John Upton, on Flickr

Rail Operations Group Class 47 47812 hauling the oddball of the 442's 2409 along the Coastway West from Three Bridges to Eastleigh for storage.

 

Odd thing is according to my notes 442's are banned from along the Coastway West beyond Hove.....

Edited September 20, 2016 by John M Upton

[Gwiwer]

 

 

Odd thing is according to my notes 442's are banned from along the Coastway West beyond Hove.....

As I understand it that "ban" is to prevent the chance of them having to take the sharp curve from Arundel Junction to Littlehampton Junction which is closed to all Mk3 stock account the train-set radius.  There should be no restriction on a one-off move straight along the coast out of service though there may have been some interesting instructions such as GOBI in the STN.

[PenrithBeacon]

If it were possible to preserve a 442 perhaps battery electric power would be the way forward. Preservationists have done things that were a lot more ambitious than that.

 

Having said that I suspect that they are for the scrapman. But a complete HST might be a possibility! Letting all those go would be a serious ommission. 442s are really a footnote.

 

Regards

[Bert Cheese]

If it were possible to preserve a 442 perhaps battery electric power would be the way forward. Preservationists have done things that were a lot more ambitious than that.

 

Having said that I suspect that they are for the scrapman. But a complete HST might be a possibility! Letting all those go would be a serious ommission. 442s are really a footnote.

 

Regards

Sadly the scrapman will probably be the best option for these units...of course I'd like to see them back in their original form on the LSWR mainline but I'm probably a daft old git?

Preservation will most likely involve the usual story of a couple of driving trailers being bought, one by a group in Yorkshire and another in Norfolk lets say...neither will have anything to do with the other and the vehicles will ultimately fall into disrepair before becoming the subject of much discussion on here in future years in the style of 50040 and now 45015.

['CHARD]

 

 the oddball of the 442's 2409 along the Coastway West from Three Bridges to Eastleigh for storage.

 

 

I'm intrigued to know what is unique about 442409....  

[South Central]

I'm intrigued to know what is unique about 442409....  

 

Someone will know more than I but in SWT days Alsthom fitted it with an experimental electric camshaft en lieu of a mechanical one as per the rest of the fleet. 

 

When Southern/GatEx took on the first tranche of 442s, 2409 became the 'christmas tree' for robbing of parts to keep the others going and languished in pieces at Chart Leacon. When Southern later took on the remaining stored units it took a fair bit of rebuilding to get it back into service. I read somewhere it spent the best part of a year out of service in 2012-13 due to issues with said 'special' camshaft, during which time it was refitted with a mechanical one at Stewarts Lane which required some parts to be specially cast given the years lapsed. 

 

Oh, and I think it's a member of the 'roast pork' club, having caught fire once or twice! 

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Though I'll miss them, I think it'll probably be the end of the road for the Cl.442s.

 

Roof detail on this motor coach shows a patch of rust taking hold.....

 

 

 

[Gwiwer]

I'm intrigued to know what is unique about 442409....  

 

2409 was basically used as a Christmas Tree.  Bits robbed to keep others going.  IT was significantly modified by SWT and then un-modified at no little expense by Southern to return it to being a standard unit again.  When the fleet was transferred it was suggested this one would never run again and would continue to supply parts to the others.  In the end it got a stay of execution.

[298]

As I understand it that "ban" is to prevent the chance of them having to take the sharp curve from Arundel Junction to Littlehampton Junction which is closed to all Mk3 stock account the train-set radius.  There should be no restriction on a one-off move straight along the coast out of service though there may have been some interesting instructions such as GOBI in the STN.

Is that because of the risk of the corridor connections not staying together, if so it shouldn't be a problem for an ECS working. A gauging issue is an entirely different kettle of fish...

[Gwiwer]

I'll defer to expert opinion in that and also because I don't have the curve radius to hand.  It is one of the sharpest on the former SR however.  You could see daylight through the outer edges of the gangways when the Cig / Big units crept around it while the inside was in full compression.  

[Southernman46]

Did a 442 really run in/out of Waterloo last Wednesday .................... ?

[John M Upton]

Not that I have heard of.  A South Eastern 375 did visit Waterloo though.

[298]

Did a 442 really run in/out of Waterloo last Wednesday .................... ?

A 462 ran out of Victoria though....

[Guest FairwayJunction]

An update on the class 442! South West Trains now know as "South Western Trains" are announcing plans to refurbish and enter 18 Class 442s to service for use on London Waterloo to Portsmouth services. An interesting move by the franchise considering the class 450s and 444's currently run on the Portsmouth direct line however their 3rd rail capabilities ensure for a fast journey, the class holds the world speed record for a third rail train with 108 mph (174 km/h), attained on 11 April 1988. South Western Trains are promising faster journey times across the network with the addition of "35 more weekday and Saturday services between Portsmouth & Southsea and London Waterloo" so these class 442's may indeed be re-entering service on the line.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

An update on the class 442! South West Trains now know as "South Western Trains" are announcing plans to refurbish and enter 18 Class 442s to service for use on London Waterloo to Portsmouth services. An interesting move by the franchise considering the class 450s and 444's currently run on the Portsmouth direct line however their 3rd rail capabilities ensure for a fast journey, the class holds the world speed record for a third rail train with 108 mph (174 km/h), attained on 11 April 1988. South Western Trains are promising faster journey times across the network with the addition of "35 more weekday and Saturday services between Portsmouth & Southsea and London Waterloo" so these class 442's may indeed be re-entering service on the line.

 

I thought the new trading name was "South Western Railway".

[phil_sutters]

The last time I saw one was parked at Eastbourne at the end of May this year.

[Gwiwer]

I thought the new trading name was "South Western Railway".

Correct so far as is known. And the gen on the 442s is not quite news. It's been a part of the franchise bid all along it seems. 18 units will form 9 ten-car trains of approximately the same length and capacity as two 444s or three 450s. The faster Portsmouth Direct services will be almost exclusively worked by the 442s with some 444s on peak trains and 450s on the "via Botley" service which may interwork with the new Portsmouth - Weymouth service. It is intended to keep the 444s on the Bournemouth / Weymouth line with some 450s displaced to stregthen other services from 4 to 8 or 8 to 12 cars.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Yes, been known for awhile.

 

Would've like to have seen them back on their old stomping ground though, down to Bournemouth. Think they're better suited to that race-track down to the South Coast, rather than the up and downs of the Portsmouth road.

 

Wonder where the Class 442s will be maintained? Nice depot at Bournemouth.....

Edited August 16, 2017 by Peter Kazmierczak

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

 

Wonder where the Class 442s will be maintained? Nice depot at Bournemouth.....

 

A slightly tongue in cheek answer, but, knowing the accountants, it could be Toton if they put the cheapest price in!

 

Mike.

[Zomboid]

If they're re-tractioned (I'm sure I've read of such a proposal somewhere, could be fluff though) then they may well end up well suited to the Portsmouth direct.

If not then yes, they're better suited to the SWML.

[rockershovel]

If they're re-tractioned (I'm sure I've read of such a proposal somewhere, could be fluff though) then they may well end up well suited to the Portsmouth direct.

If not then yes, they're better suited to the SWML.

I believe that Kiepe Electric UK Ltd (formerly Vossloh Kiepe) have the contract, and it will be carried out at Eastleigh

[D854_Tiger]

Yes, been known for awhile.

 

Would've like to have seen them back on their old stomping ground though, down to Bournemouth. Think they're better suited to that race-track down to the South Coast, rather than the up and downs of the Portsmouth road.

 

Wonder where the Class 442s will be maintained? Nice depot at Bournemouth.....

 

 

They were used on the Portsmouth direct line though, something I discovered one August Saturday.

 

A SO Virgin XC HST from New St - Portsmouth Harbour, a day on the IOW Steam Railway and home via London.

 

Nice surprise to discover a 442 waiting, three quid for a first class upgrade and a compartment to myself all they way to Waterloo.

[roythebus]

An update on the class 442! South West Trains now know as "South Western Trains" are announcing plans to refurbish and enter 18 Class 442s to service for use on London Waterloo to Portsmouth services. An interesting move by the franchise considering the class 450s and 444's currently run on the Portsmouth direct line however their 3rd rail capabilities ensure for a fast journey, the class holds the world speed record for a third rail train with 108 mph (174 km/h), attained on 11 April 1988. South Western Trains are promising faster journey times across the network with the addition of "35 more weekday and Saturday services between Portsmouth & Southsea and London Waterloo" so these class 442's may indeed be re-entering service on the line.

 

Ahem, I'm sure the unofficial record for 3rd rail traction is a bit faster than 108 mph. I personally have had the ton on a CEP/VEP combination on the Portsmouth direct through Witley many years ago; the ton on the down at Liss was achievable too, and I'm sure there's several Waterloo drivers who have had well over the ton on the REP/TC units in the last days of them. I never got to work on the 442, they were being introduced when I parted company with BR.