gismorail Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Thanks Martin, No action for the next week or two as I'm down your neck of the woods again at Bala for 10 Days from next Saturday, but will be firing on ALL CYLINDERS when I get back. :senile: Make sure you get in touch and call in...... be good to talk ....nothing running on Chumley End yet but you can 'push shunt' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus 37 Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Thanks Marcus, Sidings and Greenery does that remind you of somewhere? Peak Dale Wood perhaps? hhahhaha Cheers mate, you must come over for a running session again once its up and running. Thanks for the invitation. I will do definitely. Cant beat sidings and greenery. Especially weedy sidings! Peak Forest was unusually quiet when I visited last week but luckily Earles sidings more than made up for that when the 20 turned up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 30, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 30, 2016 Thanks Mike, That's the Plan to be able to bring in and swap stuff from the Freight only Branch to the Main Line, possibly again using a random card system, although it will be more complicated than on a BLT it should, if worked out properly, almost avoid repetition of movements or wagon order. Andy for real 'enjoyment' you ought to sort traffic between a couple of passing mainline trains as well Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted October 30, 2016 Author Share Posted October 30, 2016 Thanks Mike. Do you mean up drops off and down collects for example or laeving in yard for later? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted October 30, 2016 Author Share Posted October 30, 2016 Hoo raay just done a post from my phone. First time ive got it working on here. Now hopefully i can post when on holiday with no internet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 30, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 30, 2016 Thanks Mike. Do you mean up drops off and down collects for example or laeving in yard for later? No - I literally mean that Train A and Train B arrive within, say, 10-15 minutes of each other and a section (or sections) from Train A are remarshalled into Train B and vice versa and then they both leave within 10-15 minutes of each other and on the layout. Jjust to make it nice and easy - they are of course both heading in the same direction. Of course for real fun you could also add or detach local/branch traffic at the same time or a north bound train off the GW link line could detach traffic for Bath Green Park and/or attach traffic from Green Park . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted October 30, 2016 Author Share Posted October 30, 2016 Make sure you get in touch and call in...... be good to talk ....nothing running on Chumley End yet but you can 'push shunt' Have done ... sent PM. Cheers, looking forward to it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted October 30, 2016 Author Share Posted October 30, 2016 No - I literally mean that Train A and Train B arrive within, say, 10-15 minutes of each other and a section (or sections) from Train A are remarshalled into Train B and vice versa and then they both leave within 10-15 minutes of each other and on the layout. Jjust to make it nice and easy - they are of course both heading in the same direction. Of course for real fun you could also add or detach local/branch traffic at the same time or a north bound train off the GW link line could detach traffic for Bath Green Park and/or attach traffic from Green Park . Gottach yaa, the main and the Freight only or the Branch LOADS of interesting possibilities. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 30, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 30, 2016 Gottach yaa, the main and the Freight only or the Branch LOADS of interesting possibilities. So - Train A Swindon - Bristol West Depot GWR Freight conveying traffic for LMS destinations detached Willsbridge (segregated vac and non-vac), attach traffic ex Bath and S&DJtR for Bristol and connections. Train B Bath Green Park - Saltley LMS Freight also conveying traffic for GWR destinations Bristol and South Wales etc. Gloucester and Saltley sections both segregated vac and non-Vac, GWR for transfer at Willsbridge not segregated, formed behind the fitted section. To make it really interesting Train A could be segregated vac and non-vac so traffic to detach at Willsbridge might be from two places but sensibly would be from the middle of the train but would then have to be separated as Train B would be formed Gloucester vac, Saltley vac, Gloucester non-vac, Saltley non-vac It can be great fun with very little extra thought needed to set it up.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted October 30, 2016 Author Share Posted October 30, 2016 So - Train A Swindon - Bristol West Depot GWR Freight conveying traffic for LMS destinations detached Willsbridge (segregated vac and non-vac), attach traffic ex Bath and S&DJtR for Bristol and connections. Train B Bath Green Park - Saltley LMS Freight also conveying traffic for GWR destinations Bristol and South Wales etc. Gloucester and Saltley sections both segregated vac and non-Vac, GWR for transfer at Willsbridge not segregated, formed behind the fitted section. To make it really interesting Train A could be segregated vac and non-vac so traffic to detach at Willsbridge might be from two places but sensibly would be from the middle of the train but would then have to be separated as Train B would be formed Gloucester vac, Saltley vac, Gloucester non-vac, Saltley non-vac It can be great fun with very little extra thought needed to set it up.. WOW Now even more complicated than I thought, some excellent working and planning needed, basically I have 7 Routes to sort as Destinations. No 1 and 2, to the East we have Midland / Bath Green Park and Western Region / Bath Spa / London, all on the Main. No 3, the Freight only Line which I might call Bath Goods Yard / Gas Works. No 4, West Bound I have Western Region / Bristol St Phillips / Avonmouth Docks / South Wales. No 5, Midland, all Points North. No 6, Also West bound I have the Branch that splits at Nondore Junction with one a Freight only Line to somewhere? and No 7 the other Line to Dore End, a BLT. In addition I have a Line to the Oil Terminal and Diesel Depot for Light Engine and Trip Workings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted October 30, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 30, 2016 Good suggestion Mike. Presumably there could be reverse workings too. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgeT Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Sounds like a lot of fun shunting the yard at 'Willsbridge'... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted October 30, 2016 Author Share Posted October 30, 2016 I was hoping for a little room for the Turntable but I think it would be cramming to much into the Shed, shame really. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Who visits Bala for their hols in winter????????????????????? We hit it this summer in a heatwave and when we asked one of the locals for directions, she told us to jump in the lake! She wasn't kidding or being anti-visitor...It was just so darned hot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted October 30, 2016 Author Share Posted October 30, 2016 Who visits Bala for their hols in winter????????????????????? We hit it this summer in a heatwave and when we asked one of the locals for directions, she told us to jump in the lake! She wasn't kidding or being anti-visitor...It was just so darned hot. We've had Fireworks around here almost every night for the last fortnight and as they really scare my wife and our Dog, we come up to Bala every November. being Sheep and farming country there are almost no Fireworks apart from the Towns one on Saturday Night. Plus we love Barmouth Beach and the general scenery of Snowdonia and the Dee Valley. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyram Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Andy this weekend is Diwali so there fireworks going off constantly here too. You should have gone a week earlier (then you would have made the Weston show too ha ha) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted October 30, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 30, 2016 Hi Andy I have a few days away where I could not get interwebthingy access and you have nearly built the thing. Looking at the photos I am not going to say "looking good" but ask you to step back and have a look yourself and ask the same question I asked when I saw you temporary track layout. "Is there a little too much track?" If your answer is "Shut up Mortimore." Then I will but if not have a second look. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted October 30, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 30, 2016 While it might be a bit heavy on trackwork there were plenty of places on the railways with a lot of track particularly sidings. Don edit this is no BLT instead a busy route keeping traffic out of the city centre stations with freight interchange between LMSR and WR plus through freight local freight etc. so I think it is justified. I bet Andy has enough stock to fill the yard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted October 31, 2016 Author Share Posted October 31, 2016 Hi Andy I have a few days away where I could not get interwebthingy access and you have nearly built the thing. Looking at the photos I am not going to say "looking good" but ask you to step back and have a look yourself and ask the same question I asked when I saw you temporary track layout. "Is there a little too much track?" If your answer is "Shut up Mortimore." Then I will but if not have a second look. While it might be a bit heavy on trackwork there were plenty of places on the railways with a lot of track particularly sidings. Don edit this is no BLT instead a busy route keeping traffic out of the city centre stations with freight interchange between LMSR and WR plus through freight local freight etc. so I think it is justified. I bet Andy has enough stock to fill the yard Morning Clive and Don, I'm afraid Don is right Clive, I was thinking of places like Bromsgrove or Newton Abbott when I started, fairly busy with Freight movements, and Sidings used as storage and interchange as highlighted by Mike, (The Stationmaster) with the need for somewhere to put stock removed from through Trains destined for other Destinations. It does look a bit busy at the moment but once Ballasted and some greenery around it won't look so cluttered, as these 2 pics from Pen Junction show. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 I have read there is always the temptation to fill baseboards with track and spivving looking complication using double slips and threeway turnouts. The reality often hits home when all the point motors, switches and wiring are considered not to mention the 'signal box' diagram board. Maybe Andy is an electrical wizard, I don't know. I have looked at track plans in one of David Jenkinson's last books and one can trace the operational value of them, which is why I think they are well worth a shufty. We all have our own approach to modelling thats for sure and I look forward to seeing how Andy's Willsbridge pans out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted October 31, 2016 Author Share Posted October 31, 2016 I have read there is always the temptation to fill baseboards with track and spivving looking complication using double slips and threeway turnouts. The reality often hits home when all the point motors, switches and wiring are considered not to mention the 'signal box' diagram board. Maybe Andy is an electrical wizard, I don't know. I have looked at track plans in one of David Jenkinson's last books and one can trace the operational value of them, which is why I think they are well worth a shufty. We all have our own approach to modelling thats for sure and I look forward to seeing how Andy's Willsbridge pans out. The reality is of course that the Double Slips would have been removed in later years, as probably would the 3Way and the sidings rationalised somewhat, one thing I did look at last night (well about 1am this morning actually) was to incorporate the line to the Depot / Oil Depot into the Freight only Line to remove one Line from that end of the Station, but it would mean that the Freight Line couldn't be used at the same time as the Light Engine or Oil Depot movements, which may not be such a bad thing anyway. All the above justifies my decision NOT to publish a FIXED Track Plan just yet, I do like the flexibility of looking at things on the board several times before committing to nails and ballast. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 31, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 31, 2016 One thing that should be kept in mind is that to shunt the segregations on Trains A & B only needs two sidings (plus using the running line for shunting of course). Adding in the various local destinations doesn't make overmuch difference - the only potential problems are the total length of sidings required to meet traffic levels and the number of local destinations you need to segregate for (which from Andy's diagram in Post 185 amounts to no more than 4 or 5 - suggesting you would probably need no more than four sidings in total to do the local sorting and the passing mainline trains work. That leads you to a basic principle of working a small set of sorting sidings - every sidings serves more than one purpose and the way they are used and what goes into them is different at different times of day. The only key features are having enough sidings capacity to hold the total number of wagons, space to shunt them (if necessary clear of the running line if there are lots of trains running through), and having the sidings long enough to deal with the longest segregations 'in clear'. In model railway terms you can simply start from the opposite direction and match you traffic working to your siding length (plus adding a few occasions when you won';t have enough room just to provide extra amusement) - it always used to be fun dealing with trains in a yard which wasn't long enough to deal with them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted October 31, 2016 Author Share Posted October 31, 2016 One thing that should be kept in mind is that to shunt the segregations on Trains A & B only needs two sidings (plus using the running line for shunting of course). Adding in the various local destinations doesn't make overmuch difference - the only potential problems are the total length of sidings required to meet traffic levels and the number of local destinations you need to segregate for (which from Andy's diagram in Post 185 amounts to no more than 4 or 5 - suggesting you would probably need no more than four sidings in total to do the local sorting and the passing mainline trains work. That leads you to a basic principle of working a small set of sorting sidings - every sidings serves more than one purpose and the way they are used and what goes into them is different at different times of day. The only key features are having enough sidings capacity to hold the total number of wagons, space to shunt them (if necessary clear of the running line if there are lots of trains running through), and having the sidings long enough to deal with the longest segregations 'in clear'. In model railway terms you can simply start from the opposite direction and match you traffic working to your siding length (plus adding a few occasions when you won';t have enough room just to provide extra amusement) - it always used to be fun dealing with trains in a yard which wasn't long enough to deal with them. Thanks for that info Mike, With Willsbridge there are only 2 Sidings and the Goods holding Loop on the Up Line and on the Down Line and Branch there is a Lay By Siding plus 3 shorter ones at West Yard for marshalling Stock etc. Plus the Goods Shed and Coal Road for Willsbridge itself. so really only 5 sidings for storage / shunting / marshalling. and a loop and lay by siding to hold through Freight whilst Passenger or Fast Freight passes through. So although it looks a lot it will be just enough as Mike has pointed out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted October 31, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 31, 2016 On train journeys during the fifties and early sixties there seemed to be no end of sidings on the main line routes. There were also many termini that had more than the two sidings so common on model layouts. Usually in model form we provide more passenger facilities than freight it should be the other way round. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted October 31, 2016 Author Share Posted October 31, 2016 On train journeys during the fifties and early sixties there seemed to be no end of sidings on the main line routes. There were also many termini that had more than the two sidings so common on model layouts. Usually in model form we provide more passenger facilities than freight it should be the other way round. Don Wish it was still like that today Don. On Will's I'll be running 90% Freight as that is ,my main area of interest, Passenger Trains tend to get in the way of PROPPER OPERATION, hahah. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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