Hornby Class 87 - Confirmed Newly Tooled Version for 2017 !

[keybuk]

*mutters*

 

After fitting the 87 for sound yesterday, decided to catch up on the backlog on the desk, and do the Bachmann 70.

 

• Space for the speaker, with a speaker box for the common sized speaker, that could be removed if you want to do something different.
• Push-on jumpers to hold the speaker wire in place on the PCB so soldering not required.
• 21-pin socket with plenty of room above it for a full-sized decoder.
• Decoder outputs take over from the switches on the bottom.

It's like a different world.

[tractor_37260]

Hornby use 8-pin decoder sockets, which doesn't provide the necessary function outputs to make things "more controllable" out of the box.

arrows

 

And negative common wiring like other Hornby 8pin fitted models.....

[Crewlisle]

Anyone got any photos of a Hurst Models' Brecknell Willis pantograph?

 

Peter

[MGR Hooper!]

One thing that I have just pondered on, whilst looking at those close up shots. How come in the year we are in, do we still have printed on nameplates as standard?

 

Given that a lot of modellers would not want to repaint/spray or have the facilities/skill to do so, they are left with no choice. Given Railtecs excellent 3d printed plates, would it really add much to the cost for that type of plate to be produced? Incidentally, this is not just Hornby I'm on about, it's most of the major manufacturers.

 

cheers

 

Andy

Not a lot of people will want to repaint it, many will give it to a specialized firm to repaint.

For the simpler modelers the printed on nameplate serves as a good guide for fitting the etched ones.

Many modelers won't bother fitting etched plates.

Removing the printed nameplates is easy.

[Darius43]

Anyone got any photos of a Hurst Models' Brecknell Willis pantograph?

 

Peter

From the Hurst Models website - there is a link to a photo:-

 

http://www.hurstmodels.com/4/BWHSP%20Panto.JPG

 

 

Cheers

 

Darius

[forest2807]

Not a lot of people will want to repaint it, many will give it to a specialized firm to repaint.

For the simpler modelers the printed on nameplate serves as a good guide for fitting the etched ones.

Many modelers won't bother fitting etched plates.

Removing the printed nameplates is easy.

I agree with most of this but removing the printed nameplates is only easy if you know how. Yes, it is easy to find a ‘how-to’ guide on any number of websites including this one, but it is an additional chore and has the added negative of leaving shiny paint patches (if using T-Cut, etc) which then necessitates varnishing to even out the paintwork. This is a step too far for many people who would like to have something slightly different to a ‘straight out of the box’ model but are not confident enough to take these steps. Leaving the printed nameplates off in the first place and leaving the modeller to fit etched ones themselves is, in my opinion, a much better option. It’s far easier to put on an etched nameplate straight and square than it is to invisibly remove all remnants of a printed one. Edited September 12, 2018 by forest2807

[Pete the Elaner]

I agree with most of this but removing the printed nameplates is only easy if you know how. Yes, it is easy to find a ‘how-to’ guide on any number of websites including this one, but it is an additional chore and has the added negative of leaving shiny paint patches (if using T-Cut, etc) which then necessitates varnishing to even out the paintwork. This is a step too far for many people who would like to have something slightly different to a ‘straight out of the box’ model but are not confident enough to take these steps. Leaving the printed nameplates off in the first place and leaving the modeller to fit etched ones themselves is, in my opinion, a much better option. It’s far easier to put on an etched nameplate straight and square than it is to invisibly remove all remnants of a printed one.

In order for them to produce a model without numbers or printed nameplates, they have to be convinced that the product will sell well.

 

Back in the 80s, Hornby produced some un-numbered (un-finished) models, including an InterCity 86.

It did not sell very well.

I do not believe that a few people on a forum will convince them that an unfinished model will sell any better now than it did back then.

[No Decorum]

*mutters*

 

After fitting the 87 for sound yesterday, decided to catch up on the backlog on the desk, and do the Bachmann 70.

 

• Space for the speaker, with a speaker box for the common sized speaker, that could be removed if you want to do something different.
• Push-on jumpers to hold the speaker wire in place on the PCB so soldering not required.
• 21-pin socket with plenty of room above it for a full-sized decoder.
• Decoder outputs take over from the switches on the bottom.

It's like a different world.

 

Absolutely. I think that Hornby, for its own sake, ought to catch up with present-day standards of wiring in diesels and electrics. I am letting my orders for two 87s stand but if, in future, Hornby produces an update of an ancient model without full lighting control, I doubt that I will bite. Before DC fans protest, I’ll mention that a single switch for day or night running is not good enough either.

 

The Bachmann 70 has three switches: rear lights, cab lights and high intensity. It’s a different world but not a perfect one. The switches are very fiddly and the cablights come on and go off together – not very realistic.

[Markwalker67]

I think it should be all on decoder for all lights funtions not on switches I thinks hormby should go over to 21 pin

Edited September 12, 2018 by Markwalker67

[bigherb]

I agree with most of this but removing the printed nameplates is only easy if you know how.

Is it a problem? Etched nameplates would just cover the original printing. If you want to change the identity then you would still have to remove the numbers.

[Gordon H]

Etched nameplates would just cover the original printing.

 

So long as the newly chosen name is equal to or longer than the printed one...

[forest2807]

Is it a problem? Etched nameplates would just cover the original printing. If you want to change the identity then you would still have to remove the numbers.

Not a problem for me but I know how. Agreed, but if you are renumbering you are putting numerals back on the shiny patch which is then more easy to disguise. If a model was produced without printed nameplates the modeller would have a choice of whether to apply a name or leave it unnamed and there would be no printed plate removal issues. But as Pete the Elaner says, it is unlikely to happen.

[tractor_37260]

I think it should be all on decoder for all lights funtions not on switches I thinks hormby should go over to 21 pin

 

 

The odd thing is - Hornby already use 21 pin on their factory sound fitted models - beggars believe why they have to use 8 pin on NON sound (DCC Ready locos)  ?

[adb968008]

Not a problem for me but I know how. Agreed, but if you are renumbering you are putting numerals back on the shiny patch which is then more easy to disguise. If a model was produced without printed nameplates the modeller would have a choice of whether to apply a name or leave it unnamed and there would be no printed plate removal issues. But as Pete the Elaner says, it is unlikely to happen.

Bachmann nameplates are a doddle to remove, a cocktail stick does it for me, I once removed the LMS letters off a tender using a pencil eraser (in old school language - a rubber) by just rubbing them off.

 

I’ve not discovered a good trick for Hornby numbers yet, they tend to be harder to remove without some element of scratching, I tried nail varnish remover.. the results have occasionally been scary. They must use a different chemical based paint to Bachmann.

Edited September 12, 2018 by adb968008

[pheaton]

The odd thing is - Hornby already use 21 pin on their factory sound fitted models - beggars believe why they have to use 8 pin on NON sound (DCC Ready locos)  ?

The sound fitted models have always had a different chassis design, however Heljan seem to follow the same idea even the retooled 33s were still 8 pin, however......hornbys decoder line (what ever you think of it), is 8 pin apart from the sapphire which includes an 8 pin harness so perhaps the business mantra however bizarre it seems could be because they do not have a native mainstream 21 pin decoder.....

 

Personally i wish DCC would just stick to one interface per scale. 

[Pete the Elaner]

 

Personally i wish DCC would just stick to one interface per scale. 

 

Unfortunately that is not as simple as it sounds.

 

8 pin decoders were the standard a while ago & manufacturers did not find any more functions necessary.

As decoders shrunk, some manufacturers also wanted to offer more functions such as cab lighting & increased the number of pins to cope with this. 21 was chosen as an amount which should future-proof the design for a while. I also find it an advantage to solder a speaker to the PCB rather than to the decoder itself. 21 pins cope with this nicely.

These would be difficult to fit into a narrow boiler of some smaller steam locos, for instance an 0-6-0T. It is an advantage in some of these to ft an 8-pin decoder, maybe on leads with the decoder itself tucked away from the PCB.

 

I have heard that Plux-18?? is now a standard which some believe should be adopted by all. I have never seen one though.

 

There are lots of examples in other fields where standards change to meet changing consumer demands & expectations.

Edited September 12, 2018 by Pete the Elaner

[No Decorum]

I think it should be all on decoder for all lights funtions not on switches I thinks hormby should go over to 21 pin

 

When a model is designed properly, it will have switches to set the lights to how a DC user wants them. It will also be wired so that, with the switches left on, lights can be controlled by the decoder. Perhaps an expensive solution but it should satisfy both DC and DCC users.

 

Yes, it would be better if Hornby were to go over to 21-pin for the extra functionality.

[ThaneofFife]

4 function has been around for what seems like ages now.  surely we should be on 6 function by now........

[MGR Hooper!]

I agree with most of this but removing the printed nameplates is only easy if you know how. Yes, it is easy to find a ‘how-to’ guide on any number of websites including this one, but it is an additional chore and has the added negative of leaving shiny paint patches (if using T-Cut, etc) which then necessitates varnishing to even out the paintwork. This is a step too far for many people who would like to have something slightly different to a ‘straight out of the box’ model but are not confident enough to take these steps. Leaving the printed nameplates off in the first place and leaving the modeller to fit etched ones themselves is, in my opinion, a much better option. It’s far easier to put on an etched nameplate straight and square than it is to invisibly remove all remnants of a printed one.

You still need to remove numbers. Height wise numbers are approximately the same as nameplates and there's more numbers than nameplates. So I still don't understand your point yet. You'll still get a glossy finish and you'll still need to give it a quick spray if satin varnish.

 

So the printed in nameplates are harmless.

 

In fact another manufacturer has gone from providing factory-fitted etched nameplates to printed on ones with the etched ones left for customers to add.

[No Decorum]

4 function has been around for what seems like ages now.  surely we should be on 6 function by now........

 

Dapol’s “Imperium” decoders are six function and they are not the only ones. It would be a good move if Hornby were to wire the PCBs to take advantage of them.

 

Another nice feature on decoders would be five, or better yet six, digit locomotive addresses. It would save the bother of trying to work out which running number digit has been omitted.

[Pete the Elaner]

 

Another nice feature on decoders would be five, or better yet six, digit locomotive addresses. It would save the bother of trying to work out which running number digit has been omitted.

I agree with that, but wouldn't that be outside of NMRA standards & incompatible with what we now call DCC?

[tractor_37260]

Dapol’s “Imperium” decoders are six function and they are not the only ones. It would be a good move if Hornby were to wire the PCBs to take advantage of them.

 

Another nice feature on decoders would be five, or better yet six, digit locomotive addresses. It would save the bother of trying to work out which running number digit has been omitted.

 

Using 4 digit addressing - if the first and last two numbers are used, no need to know/work out the missing middle number.  Using a Roco MultiMaus you can have 5 digit alphanumeric address tags - ie D6607 or 37 403 etc 

[37501]

Is it a problem? Etched nameplates would just cover the original printing. If you want to change the identity then you would still have to remove the numbers.

Can still be a problem even if you are not changing the name and number of the loco. I have a Hornby Class 60 60033 Tees Steel Express and the printed nameplates are larger than the etched ones. Will need to remove a portion of the printed ones prior to fitting the etched ones. Never had this problem on any other loco....

 

John

[Dixie Dean]

Does the sound fitted 87s have a different configuration from the other types?  Are there still switches on that version or are the lights controlled through the chip?

[charliepetty]

Sadly another Hornby Triumph after their totally 'not suitable for Good DCC sound' Class 71.  This Class 87 with regards to Sound and DCC features is appalling, I can only assume the designers know nothing about DCC or Sound, as it follows the same pattern as the Class 800 IEP with totally thoughtless design.

 

This is very sad as DCC has moved on and Hornby seem to be going backwards.

 

I strongly suggest they talk to people who know what they are doing as today there is no excuse for open speakers, micro decoders in vehicles of this size.

 

Charlie

Edited September 16, 2018 by charliepetty