ThaneofFife Posted September 4, 2018 Author Share Posted September 4, 2018 Post 1165 seems to suggest that the cross arm has two. I'll have a look at mine when I get home. does it? where in 1165? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroborus Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 does it? where in 1165? Apologies, it does only seem to have one, I need my glasses re-grinding. 1165 : Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 I'd have to check, but different oantographs would need their own auxiliary connections, which need to be insulated. The cross arm just needs an air supply, the High speed probably has some degree of instrumentation to show its position/height, or a separate air link to the carbons instead of having the supply to the air motor go through them as happens with other types. If you think that is a minefield, try looking at the two roof vents on the locos in more recent times, 87002 definitely had one plated over. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew F Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 There seems to be variations to roof detail across the class in the BR blue era too; for example some had a huge insulator in the middle of the roof like an AL5 but not an 85. I've also noted a cylindrical component up there on some but not others. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaneofFife Posted September 4, 2018 Author Share Posted September 4, 2018 were the roof areas painted white ex works from new? the intercity version is more of grey and it looks better for it to my eye. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew F Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 were the roof areas painted white ex works from new? the intercity version is more of grey and it looks better for it to my eye. I've seen 1970's colour photo's that seem to suggest a dark grey roof like Lima did with their original 87005 but I would have thought they were all off-white originally like the other electrics and the dark grey rooves may well be just muck; anyone else know? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted September 4, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 4, 2018 were the roof areas painted white ex works from new? the intercity version is more of grey and it looks better for it to my eye. I understood that most of the roof panels were made of fibreglass to allow light into the loco. Andi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaneofFife Posted September 4, 2018 Author Share Posted September 4, 2018 is that not just above the internal corridor i wonder? i can see the point of light getting in if you can move the internal equipment around without the need to remove individual roof panels but if everything had to be lifted out from above for overhaul then I cant see why the whole roof would be of the sort of fibreglass that would let light in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joejab95 Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 Also, I don't know if anyone else encountered this. But when I went to put a standard Hattons 8 Pin decoder in, I could not find space for it So I ended up having to grab a standard Hornby 8 pin decoder out of another locomotive which fitted into the slot below Hope this is useful for people! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 The first decoder I tried was a Hornby one which I had just replaced in something else. It fit into that slot nicely. The intention is to get a Loksound in there, but I have not got that yet. I hope it fits...but suspect it may not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tetsudofan Posted September 4, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 4, 2018 Fitted aHattons 8-pin Direct Decoder in mine, seems to run smoothly. Not had time to check how the light settings work In the meantime, took a pic of King Arthur with a rake of Oxford coaches out and about: Cl-87-02.jpg Thought I'd downloaded another pic showing more of the coaches from my camera but does seem to have made it...…must go and see where it went to Keith Found the pic that I should have also posted yesterday: Keith 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfofBadenoch Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 (edited) Some more photos and ramblings. Good news is that Rails say they've had some extra Robert Burns so will exchange mine for a new one :-) DCC Sound - checked some speakers i had lying about. 23mm diameter speaker with enclosure - no chance of fitting 23mm diameter speaker with no enclosure - speaker facing down i couldn't get the PCB back down properly as something on the PCB was interfering with the speaker. Fitted fine with speaker facing up. 27*18*8mm enclosure with speaker (think it came with LMB 08 chip) wouldn't fit in above driveshaft without fouling PCB. I think it might fit across the loco behind the driving cab but would need the lugs cut off to prove. King Arthur with Hornby Mk3 coaches (approx 2008 versions) Comparison of old and new Spot the difference - Which one is wrong?? Other sides Head on Head on pantograph end It started 9 Mk3s, 1 Mk2 and 1 Mk1 (11 carriages) up a 1 in 50 on 900mm radius curves with a surging acceleration Didn't try anymore carriages tonight. It was however doing a circuit in the same time as Duchess of Atholl - but the Duchess was on the slightly longer outer circuit Need to sort that out before my dad sees it or i'll never hear the end of it! Finally struggled to get a Lokpilot4. Had trim the cover a bit and unscrew the PCB to get it in and the wires looked a bit tight. Edited September 4, 2018 by WolfofBadenoch 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR(S) Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 (edited) Comparison of old and new IMG_0693 (Custom).JPG Spot the difference - Which one is wrong?? The new one has the livery correct. Both swallows should be at the non-pantograph end with heads facing the cabs. Edited September 4, 2018 by BR(S) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 (edited) is that not just above the internal corridor i wonder? i can see the point of light getting in if you can move the internal equipment around without the need to remove individual roof panels but if everything had to be lifted out from above for overhaul then I cant see why the whole roof would be of the sort of fibreglass that would let light in. I can't post the link from the ACLG website, but there is is a good shot of 87002's Pan, the fibreglass panels are dirty and the rest of the roof is Aircraft Grey. Edited September 4, 2018 by 298 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcyg Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 Also, I don't know if anyone else encountered this. But when I went to put a standard Hattons 8 Pin decoder in, I could not find space for it IMG_7327.JPG So I ended up having to grab a standard Hornby 8 pin decoder out of another locomotive which fitted into the slot below IMG_7328.JPG Hope this is useful for people! I’ve had a similar problem getting a decoder into a Heljan 86 with a Hornby body on. I think I’m going to have to resort to removing the pcb and making my own Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted September 5, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 5, 2018 Spot the difference - Which one is wrong?? I’d say it’s the tape, I never saw an 87 with Tape over its pan in real life :-) Coat, hat... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
VXDH92 Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 Some more photos and ramblings. Good news is that Rails say they've had some extra Robert Burns so will exchange mine for a new one :-) DCC Sound - checked some speakers i had lying about. 23mm diameter speaker with enclosure - no chance of fitting 23mm diameter speaker with no enclosure - speaker facing down i couldn't get the PCB back down properly as something on the PCB was interfering with the speaker. Fitted fine with speaker facing up. 27*18*8mm enclosure with speaker (think it came with LMB 08 chip) wouldn't fit in above driveshaft without fouling PCB. I think it might fit across the loco behind the driving cab but would need the lugs cut off to prove. IMG_0692 (Custom).JPG King Arthur with Hornby Mk3 coaches (approx 2008 versions) Comparison of old and new IMG_0693 (Custom).JPG Spot the difference - Which one is wrong?? IMG_0694 (Custom).JPG Other sides IMG_0695 (Custom).JPG Head on IMG_0696 (Custom).JPG Head on pantograph end It started 9 Mk3s, 1 Mk2 and 1 Mk1 (11 carriages) up a 1 in 50 on 900mm radius curves with a surging acceleration Didn't try anymore carriages tonight. It was however doing a circuit in the same time as Duchess of Atholl - but the Duchess was on the slightly longer outer circuit Need to sort that out before my dad sees it or i'll never hear the end of it! Finally struggled to get a Lokpilot4. Had trim the cover a bit and unscrew the PCB to get it in and the wires looked a bit tight. Looking good. I actually think the older variant has a better paint shade, particularly the dark grey. Hornby do have a tendency to do very deep, dark shades which don't always look right to my eye... Anyway, I have an intercity one in the post, despite not being my era! Ooops! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ghost of IKB Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 Got to say, i think it's a bit of a poor show, when a new model has inadequate space for a decoder or speaker. Dcc and dcc sound isnt exactly new. Surely Hornby are aware that the trend is for bigger better sounding speakers, so why do we get this nonsense from them. Plus the crappy light situation. Clutching defeat from the jaws of victory? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 How big exactly is the intended space? Those sugar cube speakers are quite astonishing in how they perform for their size, as are the phone speakers I've seen Rapido use. You wouldn't necessarily need a large bass speaker because the primary noise from an electric is at a higher pitch than that from a diesel engine. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazwire Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 Just opening both my 87s and they are fantastic! Everything I'd hoped for and more. I know they get some stick sometimes, but I think Hornby deserve a lot if credit for doing such a wonderful job. The shop I bought them from said all the blues had sold out and most of the intercity livery already!. Great news for us AC modellers and it hopefully gives them confidence to make further investments in this era such as a re-tooled 86 and addition 87 liveries. Well done Hornby! 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 Got to say, i think it's a bit of a poor show, when a new model has inadequate space for a decoder or speaker. Dcc and dcc sound isnt exactly new. Surely Hornby are aware that the trend is for bigger better sounding speakers, so why do we get this nonsense from them. Plus the crappy light situation. Clutching defeat from the jaws of victory? I was hoping that they learned this lesson from the 71. They are doing well with DCC sound on the steam loco front (tank locos aside) but miss it with the all new electrics. Bachmann have started to pre fit speakers in some of the 2019 releases, Kernow's Bulleids also have speakers, and all of Bachmann's diesels have a clear space set aside now. In fairness there is a small space under the loco on the 71, but it seems a challenge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Darius43 Posted September 5, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 5, 2018 (edited) Managed to fit a Zimo MX645R sound decoder with a sugar cube speaker and a small stay alive capacitor to “Robert Burns”. The decoder slot provided by Hornby is too small and the speaker enclosure is also too small for the cube. Poor marks to Hornby for that. I was able to place the decoder atop the “empty” part of the pcb and fit the body back OK if the plastic shroud to the decoder is removed. The sugar cube speaker fits to the underside of the body between the spring contacts and the plastic rear wall of the cab vestibule. The stay alive hangs over the edge of the pcb at the other cab end. Errant cables were kept out of mischief with dabs of black tac. I will take photos of what I did when I fit a decoder to “King Arthur”. Cheers Darius Edited September 5, 2018 by Darius43 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cravensdmufan Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 Managed to fit a Zimo MX645R sound decoder with a sugar cube speaker and a small stay alive capacitor to “Robert Burns”. The decoder slot provided by Hornby is too small and the speaker enclosure is also too small for the cube. Poor marks to Hornby for that. I was able to place the decoder atop the “empty” part of the pcb and fit the body back OK if the plastic shroud to the decoder is removed. The sugar cube speaker fits to the underside of the body between the spring contacts and the plastic rear wall of the cab vestibule. The stay alive hangs over the edge of the pcb at the other cab end. Errant cables were kept out of mischief with dabs of black tac. I will take photos of what I did when I fit a decoder to “King Arthur”. Cheers Darius Useful information, thanks. Whose sound project did you use please? And are you pleased with it? i would like to sound fit an 87 so would welcome any recommendations. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaneofFife Posted September 5, 2018 Author Share Posted September 5, 2018 (edited) My take on the blue version. On the lighting under DC power I know the lights only come on when the loco begins to move but I wonder whether they can be switched on when stationery when under DCC control or whether the day time markers are fixed to be on permanently ? My "Electric Euston to Glasgow" book by O S Nock shows the detail of the BP9 bogies and it doesn't seem to feature SAB wheels. Edited September 5, 2018 by ThaneofFife 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cravensdmufan Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 (edited) My take on the blue version. Wonderful in depth review of this fabulous model. Thanks for taking the time to show it so comprehensively. The model looks absolutely brilliant. Unfortunately I have to wait until November for my blue one, as advised by my local dealer. Edited September 5, 2018 by cravensdmufan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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