RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted December 27, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 27, 2016 Sometihg you shove through the wheel (Spokes or Hole) to stop it rotating. Sprags are known as "dregs" in some parts of the country. They also had other uses being rather handy as packing when rerailing but rather more seriously, and because they were prone to damage in use, they tended to get used as firewood (especially in freight brakevans). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 NCB tended to use steel for underground. About two foot long, two inches in diameter and tapered to a point. Usually with a circular disk (hand guard) welded to it to prevent the hand being drawn into the wheel sets but there were many styles. This one which normally lives in my briefcase (don't ask) came from a colliery that was closed in 1873. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted December 27, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 27, 2016 GWR Freight Brakevan Equipment In 1936 - Set of Side and tail lamps, oil can, hand brush, sand bucket, Short drawbar and hook, fire shovel, shunting pole, not less than 2 sprags, brake stick. N.B/ The equipment as at 1936 was little changed from that of 1920 the only difference being the deletion, at some intermediate date, of two hand scotches from the list. Revised during WWII to read 'bucket' instead of sand bucket, and 'tail lamp and set of side lamps' instead of previous description. Also the following items were listed as still allowing the van to be used in traffic if they were missing - hand brush, fire shovel, and bucket. Further revised c.1959 to delete hand brush, firs shovel and bucket. Revised 1960 to BR wide standard with the following list of equipment - 2 sprags, 1 shunting pole, 1 brake stick, 1 half gallon oil can, 2 side lamps, 1 tail lamp Revised March 1968 to delete the sprags and add 2 sets of track circuit clips/ Revised December 1976 to delete the half gallon oil can (but don't forget that a drop of lamp oil was helpful for getting the stove going ). Reissued June 1978 with no further changes. The definitive and comprehensive list; thank you Stationmaster! I have lit my share of stoves with lamp oil in the 70s, and fortunately was never called on to use the track circuit clips! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted December 27, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 27, 2016 (edited) Hesitating to ask this........but what's a sprag? A thing for spragging, of course... Piece of wood that you shoved between the spokes, or later into the holes, of wagon wheels to hold the wagon still on gradients. That is why more modern 3 hole wagon wheels had holes. They had a habit of breaking when the wagon was knocked about in shunting, and causing all sorts of diverting amusement. Sometimes you were amusingly diverted via a completely different route while the mess was cleared up... Different from a chock, which fits between the wheel and the rail and is curved to fit the wheel; this more stick like device worked, when it worked that is, by jamming against the ground. Obviously the success of this depended on the strength of the sprag and it was worth checking them for splits or other faults before trusting them. I never liked the idea, but by my time their use was rare. Very early in my railway career I saw one break in Aberthaw Cement Works; it went off like a gunshot, and would have decapitated anyone in it's path. Perhaps that is why I took against them so. Edited December 27, 2016 by The Johnster Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted December 30, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 30, 2016 To get back to the Hornby van, I am looking forward to having one. As Cwmdimbath needs one, I bought a Baccy toad recently, and was a little disheartened when I opened the box. I've had 3 excellent wagons from Baccy in the last few months, an LNER 12ton van, an LNER steel open, and a Southern PMV, all in BR early 50s livery and pre-weathered in the case of the van. They are excellent, and I doubt could be bettered without scratchbuilding to a very high standard; they are certainly better than anything I could build even from the very best available scratch. The PMV is probably the most completely detailed and best finished model I have ever owned, and came out of the box like that! Back to the new Baccy toad; I bought it in BR unfitted grey, and have no complaints about the body moulding, livery, or printing. I knew the handrails would be moulded but decided to live with that for now. But, so far as I could make out, it is identical to a Mainline one I owned back in the early 80s, down to the brake blocks which are a scale foot or so outboard of the wheels; presumably ML thought that WR guards braked their trains by waving bits of cast iron in the fresh air!. I still have an ML fitted toad body from those days running on an equally unrealistic Airfix chassis, and I'd have thought that some improvement might have been apparent over the years. Come on, guys, at least put some windows in... So I have very high hopes indeed for the Hornby toad, whatever the tubularity or otherwise of it's footboard hangers. I'll be quite happy thank you if it's got separate handrails (check), brake blocks that look as though they might be able to retard the wheels (check), sandboxes that don't look like plastic 4-pint milk cartons (check) and clear plastic in the windows if you cannot access the interior (not known yet). A sanding lever that is not moulded on is a real bonus! Especially if they're gonna be knocking them out at £22 a pop! Mainline and it's descendants, and now Hornby if the photos show what the final shape will be, fit, or to be more accurate, mould, a sort of tapered upside down flowerpot thing for the stove pipe. This does not match my recollections and is a surprisingly difficult thing to identify from photographs. I assume it is correct; after all a firm that took so much trouble to get the alignments of it's brake blocks right wouldn't make an error of that sort, would they (ok, I'll take my tongue back out of my cheek now). But I always cut these off and replace them with something a bit more parallel and stove-pipe like in blackened brass tube, and think I am making an improvement. I cannot imagine that a stove pipe top of this tapered shape draws the fire particularly well, but of course I might be wroo, I mean wwwwng, I mean, can't type the word never mind say it, I mean I might be differently right!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 The chimney should be parallel, as you thought. (It's just tapered on the model because of the release angle on the mould.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Mark Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 Lets hope Hornby do the Toad absolutely PERFECT because if they do they will not regret it. Sales will compensate for last minute fine tuning. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tomparryharry Posted December 31, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 31, 2016 The six lots of AA15 were produced over a longish timescale, and had differences. I would advise Hornby to choose their running numbers and brandings from the penultimate lot (lot 901, numbers 68601-700), because this is the only lot that had GW boxes and the angle footboard stanchions, which is what Hornby are depicting. Edit: Hmmm. Lot 888 might also be valid, depending on whether one believes the bible or the number in this Paul Bartlett collection: http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/gwrbrakevan/h361af2fe#h15d8eabe On the matter of the 'bolted' L-section capping on the ends of the roof, I think that is a later 'modern' mod, but I can't put a date on it. I own a 1924 V14 Mink A. It has the capping, as the bolts fit straight through to the frame hoop. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted January 5, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 5, 2017 The chimney should be parallel, as you thought. (It's just tapered on the model because of the release angle on the mould.) Ah. that would explain it. Thank you Miss Prism! I shall continue to cut them off and replace them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 I can't decipher the scribble on the AA3 GA, but I think the chimney diameter was between 4" and 4.25" diameter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
K14 Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 I can't decipher the scribble on the AA3 GA, but I think the chimney diameter was between 4" and 4.25" diameter. I have a higher resolution version (too big to post) & in that it's 4" dia. This corresponds with drawing 57077 'Stove for Breakdown Van' dated 12/1918, albeit for a different design of stove to that in the AA.3 drawing. P. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted January 6, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 6, 2017 I can't decipher the scribble on the AA3 GA, but I think the chimney diameter was between 4" and 4.25" diameter. In the past, I've gone for what looks right and whatever brass tube I've got handy. Every time I've done it I've resisted the urge to put an orange or yellow led under the tube... Now you have informed my of the diameter I'll try and get it in the ball park. Thank you again! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 57xx Posted January 6, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 6, 2017 Just curious if anyone else has contacted Hornby about the axleboxes? I dropped them a line before Crimbo but aside from the automated response, haven't heard a peep from them acknowledging it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 7, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 7, 2017 I need to get in touch with them about something else so if contributors to this thread wish to give me a list i will pass it on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGR Hooper! Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 https://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/news/the-engine-shed/adecoration-sample-exclusive-and-toad-gets-a-lick-of-paint/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garethp8873 Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 (edited) Yes, a rather good article by Hornby, but I don't think any Toads ran with split-spoke wheels. 10-spoke I think was normal for 20T Toads. (I wait to be shot down as usual!) Nice to see the correction to the footboard apertures, and Hornby could make a fortune if they sold those s/c buffers separately. This is RTR of a very high standard. Following your thoughts on the wheels, I did just take a glance through the photos I have of several preserved Toads. So far the only AA15 Toad I've seen which has got the 10-spoke wheels is the example which Hornby have been seen to measure up which is GWR 68684 at Didcot. This maybe why the Hornby model has been done with these wheels. Besides 68684, I've only seen 10-spoke on AA21 17410 at the SVR and AA3 56400 at Didcot again. All other Toads I have photographed have 3 hole disc wheels. This is only speculation but it may just come down to whatever wagon wheels were around at the Swindon workshops, were used on the Toad in question. Edited March 24, 2017 by Garethp8873 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted March 24, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 24, 2017 Here is a painted sample posted by Hornby today. 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted March 24, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 24, 2017 Now to finally get on and order some! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 57xx Posted March 24, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 24, 2017 It looks like Hornby have listened about the axleboxes!! Thank you! 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold farren Posted March 26, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 26, 2017 Following your thoughts on the wheels, I did just take a glance through the photos I have of several preserved Toads. So far the only AA15 Toad I've seen which has got the 10-spoke wheels is the example which Hornby have been seen to measure up which is GWR 68684 at Didcot. This maybe why the Hornby model has been done with these wheels. Besides 68684, I've only seen 10-spoke on AA21 17410 at the SVR and AA3 56400 at Didcot again. All other Toads I have photographed have 3 hole disc wheels. This is only speculation but it may just come down to whatever wagon wheels were around at the Swindon workshops, were used on the Toad in question. Interesting you managed to get them with the same wheels but they all have different buffers. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tomparryharry Posted March 28, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 28, 2017 (edited) Following your thoughts on the wheels, I did just take a glance through the photos I have of several preserved Toads. So far the only AA15 Toad I've seen which has got the 10-spoke wheels is the example which Hornby have been seen to measure up which is GWR 68684 at Didcot. This maybe why the Hornby model has been done with these wheels. Besides 68684, I've only seen 10-spoke on AA21 17410 at the SVR and AA3 56400 at Didcot again. All other Toads I have photographed have 3 hole disc wheels. This is only speculation but it may just come down to whatever wagon wheels were around at the Swindon workshops, were used on the Toad in question. Edited March 28, 2017 by tomparryharry 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 I know I'm 'resurrecting' a fairly old thread but does anyone know where the cheapest place to pre-order one is? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGR Hooper! Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 I know I'm 'resurrecting' a fairly old thread but does anyone know where the cheapest place to pre-order one is? I usually find that amongst all well know online retailers "Rails Of Sheffield" are the cheapest. And their service is excellent too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black 5 Bear Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 I know I'm 'resurrecting' a fairly old thread but does anyone know where the cheapest place to pre-order one is? Derails of Coleford have excellent prices and offer 1st class customer service. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 To be honest I don't think there is usually that big a variation when it comes to wagons. What you have got to be careful of is the postage rates. Some are free and some charge much more. So look at the total price including postage. Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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