Hornby Princess Coronation Class (Duchess)

[Stanley Melrose]

Has anyone had the temerity to dismantle the loco far enough to determine the diameter of the driving wheel axles?

 

If so, I'd be delighted to know what it is . . .

 

Stan

[Chamby]

Not quite the point and right or wrong doesn't apply here. Many small retailers preorder for mail order customers and find themselves embarrassingly short when their depleted order arrives and they are unable to fulfil those same orders.Yes this happened to me yesterday with the LBSCR "H" btw.. To state that one retailer won't need as much as another is a over simplified viewpoint.They all need an even handed approach

I think there are two separate issues here: initial stock, and resupply. It does sound like some retailers have been shorted on their initial orders, whereas a larger competitor is suspected of having a substantial resupply.

 

If purchasing power provides this sort of leverage, maybe small suppliers need to create some form of collective purchasing mass. It’s called co-opertition... like minded competitors co-operating for mutual benefit. Is there some sort of federation of local model shops or lobby group out there yet? Maybe not including everyone, but those who are able to work together?

[Ian Hargrave]

I think there are two separate issues here: initial stock, and resupply. It does sound like some retailers have been shorted on their initial orders, whereas a larger competitor is suspected of having a substantial resupply.

If purchasing power provides this sort of leverage, maybe small suppliers need to create some form of collective purchasing mass. It’s called co-opertition... like minded competitors co-operating for mutual benefit. Is there some sort of federation of local model shops or lobby group out there yet? Maybe not including everyone, but those who are able to work together?

Indeed .This idea has been posted before.But we are here and this is now.Collective purchasing works for suppliers of TV's ,washing machines and other items of consumer electrical hardware but really ..local model shops ...federation ..lobby group ? These are "small businesses" in the truest sense of the word,operating from in many cases the tiniest of premises from which some of them perform miracles of inventiveness and supply.For some the business needs a supplementary income to generate a living wage.Come on folks,give them a break and support a diverse way of retailing .There's still hopefully room for all.....box shifters ( hate the term ) and small retailers alike.There are in reality very few retailers left to perform a group consortium manoeuvre . Nice idea but I fear cloud cuckoo land.This is model trains and not washing machines.

[micklner]

Indeed .This idea has been posted before.But we are here and this is now.Collective purchasing works for suppliers of TV's ,washing machines and other items of consumer electrical hardware but really ..local model shops ...federation ..lobby group ? These are "small businesses" in the truest sense of the word,operating from in many cases the tiniest of premises from which some of them perform miracles of inventiveness and supply.For some the business needs a supplementary income to generate a living wage.Come on folks,give them a break and support a diverse way of retailing .There's still hopefully room for all.....box shifters ( hate the term ) and small retailers alike.There are in reality very few retailers left to perform a group consortium manoeuvre . Nice idea but I fear cloud cuckoo land.This is model trains and not washing machines.

 

Small indeed and a rapidly disappearing facility. This may explain why the "big" boys get the stock and the minnows are ignored when it suits the maker and money talks. 

[Stanley Melrose]

Naturally!

 

and convert it to P4??

[adb968008]

If purchasing power provides this sort of leverage, maybe small suppliers need to create some form of collective purchasing mass. It’s called co-opertition... like minded competitors co-operating for mutual benefit. Is there some sort of federation of local model shops or lobby group out there yet? Maybe not including everyone, but those who are able to work together?

Good idea but I think the best example is a Rails and Locomotion where they link up on similar but different limited editions.

 

Not sure it would work on general release models, but imagine if two groups in Essex got together and did 45163 and 45293, or in Lancashire to do 45407 and 44871.

Of greater concern would be the price risk, £190 is a lot of money for a loco, and selling below rrp would be counter intuitive for a limited edition, it’s one only retailers with broad shoulders can support hanging round for a few years.

Edited November 2, 2017 by adb968008

[peterfgf]

I've just had an email from Hattons to say that Hornby R3509TTS Class 8P 4-6-2 46235 "City of Birmingham" in BR Green is not due in stock until May 2018.

 

Petefgf.

[Black 5 Bear]

I've just had an email from Hattons to say that Hornby R3509TTS Class 8P 4-6-2 46235 "City of Birmingham" in BR Green is not due in stock until May 2018.[/size]

 

Petefgf.[/size]

I honestly think this will suit a lot of people considering Christmas is just round the corner.

My wallet is certainly breathing a sigh of relief !

Edited November 2, 2017 by Black 5 Bear

[pete55]

Has anyone had the temerity to dismantle the loco far enough to determine the diameter of the driving wheel axles?

 

If so, I'd be delighted to know what it is . . .

 

Stan

 

First thing I do......they are 3mm

[Stanley Melrose]

First thing I do......they are 3mm

Ta muchly!

 

Stan

[Robin Brasher]

Well despite staying fairly positive throughout the day, I cant say I'm in the in the best of moods.

We got 50% of the Staniers we ordered, only just enough H Classes to cover pre-orders and our Atholls are completely MIA. In the year and a half I have been working at the shop we have never failed to fulfil pre-orders.

It's bloody depressing having to ring people and tell them we cant supply them with the item they ordered. The fact other places seem to have a glut of them only makes the feeling worse.

 

Alex

 

(this is my personal opinion and does NOT represent Footplate)

My nearest model shop at Swanage station has stopped selling Hornby due to problems with that firm and is just selling Bachmann and Peco  so I had little alternative than to obtain my Duchess of Atholl by mail order. One of my friends has just opened a new model railway shop in Swanage High Street that sells Hornby so I wonder how he will manage with next year's Duchess models if Hornby produces them.

[RCAR6015]

Not a happy bunny! Took my R3555 SWS to the Solihull Model Railway Club to test run this evening.

Item received on Tuesday but not inspected until now.

Hornby quality control can only be described as " dire ". A pity that major suppliers do not have time to check for major faults prior to dispatch.

Faults include: loco chassis loose from body above the cylinders. Able to get clear daylight between both - front securing lug appears to have snapped off - a similar problem having already reported on this site just a few days ago.

Incorrectly fitted bar between loco and tender - possibly fitted the wrong way round - bar retaining screw to loco loose. Unable to get tender to sit level when on the track. The interaction between loco and tender can best be described as a " see-saw" motion.

Near side drivers door broken.

Off side cab window wind shield missing.

Battery box off running plate loose in tray.

Inner tray has two broken loose pieces above the cab, with part of the top edge of the tray just to the front of the cab being completly broken off also. However the outer polystyrene sleeve and cardboard outer show no signs of any damage.

The outer cardboard box used for despatch also shows no sign of damage, I am confident to state that that the damage was not caused during transit by the UK carrier.

I will be on the phone to the supplier at 9:30 promptly in the morning in the hope of a positive solution.

i.e. Even if they are out of stock - I need a replacement item.

I also intend to email Hornby to voice my concerns. Having paid RRP less £10.00 I should not have to receive crap!

Edited November 3, 2017 by RCAR6015

[Ian Hargrave]

Just two retailers test before mailing to the best of my knowledge..Derails and Hereford Model Centre

[Ian Hargrave]

Caution with regard to a replacement model.If your retailer has a replacement then all well and good.If not then you may be better off with a refund and " casting your net " elsewhere. Another salutary post with regard to the ongoing QC saga. Yes QC issues are sadly still with us but this is where buying with someone who is prepared to examine and test first takes away the frustration.

 

Good luck ....and keep a cool head in this morning's "negotiation "

[Black 5 Bear]

And yet we have some in our midst who deny there is a problem with Hornby QC.

 

Or are we all moaners who moan for the sake of it ???

[Gilbert]

And yet we have some in our midst who deny there is a problem with Hornby QC.

 

Or are we all moaners who moan for the sake of it ???

I'm not a great fan of the RMWeb tendency to join the mob and light the flaming torches when criticism is handed out either to companies or individuals but I had a D400 (and then a second which I have kept as I wanted the model) which need a considerable amount of attention to it's buffer beam detail etc. that some buyers would simply not have the tools or capability to carry out. My correspondence with the "Customer support" at Hornby was unhelpful (so different from particularly the US manufacturers) and I can be sure that if I lose any of the details in use they are unlikely to have any spare parts - they definitely will not have spares for the rather vulnerable and ill-fitting ladders by the buffers - I know after market brass alternatives are available but that is not the point in the basic retail environment. I hope this is not too much off-topic as I have a SWS at home unopened (after a spontaneous encounter with Derails at the Cheltenham show and a cash windfall following the sale of some On30 stock). I will be test running the loco over the weekend....I will report back...the loco does look very nice though..

 

Chris

Edited November 3, 2017 by Gilbert

[Paul_sterling]

And yet we have some in our midst who deny there is a problem with Hornby QC.

 

Or are we all moaners who moan for the sake of it ???

 

Probably not moaners per se, but we are stuck in the middle of; on one side, buyer expectations, and on the other side, people (i'm not suggesting manufacturers, as I have no evidence to support) who think "this is for a hobby" and find a lack of QC tolerable.  

[Black 5 Bear]

I'm not a great fan of the RMWeb tendency to join the mob and light the flaming torches when criticism is handed out either to companies or individuals but I had a D400 (and then a second which I have kept as I wanted the model) which need a considerable amount of attention to it's buffer beam detail etc. that some buyers would simply not have the tools or capability to carry out. My correspondence with the "Customer support" at Hornby was unhelpful (so different from particularly the US manufacturers) and I can be sure that if I lose any of the details in use they are unlikely to have any spare parts - they definitely will not have spares for the rather vulnerable and ill-fitting ladders by the buffers - I know after market brass alternatives are available but that is not the point in the basic retail environment. I hope this is not too much off-topic as I have a SWS at home unopened (after a spontaneous encounter with Derails at the Cheltenham show and a cash windfall following the sale of some On30 stock). I will be test running the loco over the weekend....I will report back...the loco does look very nice though..

 

Chris

You should be fine with that.

 

From personal experience of Derails superb customer service, I can advise that they both QC and test run locos prior to sale.

 

The only other outlet that does this to my knowledge is the Hereford model centre.

Edited November 3, 2017 by Black 5 Bear

[Legend]

This is where Hornby , and other modern companies, really go wrong. They are prepared to accept a certain % of defects. Well that's ok if you get a good one, but if you are one of the unfortunates its a major hassle

 

a) the initial disappointment

b) the issue of negotiating and organising return

c) getting a replacement , if indeed there is one to be had and its not sold out.

 

I think they fail to take into account the effect that small %(assuming it is a small %, not so sure about that) has in trashing their reputation , especially with internet , forums, blogs etc .

 

What to do ?  Well firstly I'd beef up QC at factory . It may just be model trains but ignore that for a moment , if you are spending £169-£189 on something , wouldn't you expect it to be perfect and working or have we all got money to burn?

 

Secondly I would have a strategic reserve that retailers can call down in the event of returns to make sure everyone that has pre ordered gets a good model. This is sensible DJM did it with his 71 and is now selling off the reserve he didn't need. So there's a small working capital cost on this

 

Thirdly, Id have a genuinely helpful customer helpline .

 

Yes it all costs money but QC is not optional. Many companies seem to think it is these days.

 

If manufacturers really want us to pre order with confidence  there is a quid pro quo , and that is  everyone that ordered gets a model in good condition and working. One comes with the other, its not tough luck

Edited November 3, 2017 by Legend

[sawyermodels]

Just two retailers test before mailing to the best of my knowledge..Derails and Hereford Model Centre

Hi Ian, we test everything prior to dispatch on our various DCC and DC shop layouts.

[Robin Brasher]

And yet we have some in our midst who deny there is a problem with Hornby QC.

 

Or are we all moaners who moan for the sake of it ???

I have not moaned about my Hornby-Dublo Duchess of Montrose or my Wrenn City of London or City of Liverpool or my Tri-ang Hornby Coronation or City of Bristol because they have given me excellent service, some for over 30 years and they owe me nothing. I am fairly pleased with my Hornby Duchess of Atholl but the tender and front bogie derail at the slightest provocation whereas the other locomotives stay on the track. I also do not like the fixed rear pony truck with rollers which seems to be a cost cutting exercise. Golden Age have a fixed pony truck frame but the pony truck wheels have some sideways and turning movement and are only suitable for running on over 3' radius curves.

[Black 5 Bear]

Hi Ian, we test everything prior to dispatch on our various DCC and DC shop layouts.

Another good outlet to add to the list,however shouldn't it fall to Hornby to QC their products before despatch to outlets?

Edited November 3, 2017 by Black 5 Bear

[Robin Brasher]

This is where Hornby , and other modern companies, really go wrong. They are prepared to accept a certain % of defects. Well that's ok if you get a good one, but if you are one of the unfortunates its a major hassle

 

a) the initial disappointment

b) the issue of negotiating and organising return

c) getting a replacement , if indeed there is one to be had and its not sold out.

 

I think they fail to take into account the effect that small %(assuming it is a small %, not so sure about that) has in trashing their reputation , especially with internet , forums, blogs etc .

 

What to do ?  Well firstly I'd beef up QC at factory . It may just be model trains but ignore that for a moment , if you are spending £169-£189 on something , wouldn't you expect it to be perfect and working or have we all got money to burn?

 

Secondly I would have a strategic reserve that retailers can call down in the event of returns to make sure everyone that has pre ordered gets a good model. This is sensible DJM did it with his 71 and is now selling off the reserve he didn't need. So there's a small working capital cost on this

 

Thirdly, Id have a genuinely helpful customer helpline .

 

Yes it all costs money but QC is not optional. Many companies seem to think it is these days.

 

If manufacturers really want us to pre order with confidence  there is a quid pro quo , and that is we everyone that ordered gets a model in good condition and working. One comes with the other, its not tough luck

There are bound to be faulty models in any production run and it would be sensible for a manufacturer to retain 1 in 50 models for spares. If Hornby don't do this they are not the only model railway company that does not.

[RCAR6015]

This is where Hornby , and other modern companies, really go wrong. They are prepared to accept a certain % of defects. Well that's ok if you get a good one, but if you are one of the unfortunates its a major hassle

 

a) the initial disappointment

b) the issue of negotiating and organising return

c) getting a replacement , if indeed there is one to be had and its not sold out.

 

I think they fail to take into account the effect that small %(assuming it is a small %, not so sure about that) has in trashing their reputation , especially with internet , forums, blogs etc .

 

What to do ?  Well firstly I'd beef up QC at factory . It may just be model trains but ignore that for a moment , if you are spending £169-£189 on something , wouldn't you expect it to be perfect and working or have we all got money to burn?

 

Secondly I would have a strategic reserve that retailers can call down in the event of returns to make sure everyone that has pre ordered gets a good model. This is sensible DJM did it with his 71 and is now selling off the reserve he didn't need. So there's a small working capital cost on this

 

Thirdly, Id have a genuinely helpful customer helpline .

 

Yes it all costs money but QC is not optional. Many companies seem to think it is these days.

 

If manufacturers really want us to pre order with confidence  there is a quid pro quo , and that is we everyone that ordered gets a model in good condition and working. One comes with the other, its not tough luck

This is where Hornby , and other modern companies, really go wrong. They are prepared to accept a certain % of defects. Well that's ok if you get a good one, but if you are one of the unfortunates its a major hassle

 

a) the initial disappointment

b) the issue of negotiating and organising return

c) getting a replacement , if indeed there is one to be had and its not sold out.

 

I think they fail to take into account the effect that small %(assuming it is a small %, not so sure about that) has in trashing their reputation , especially with internet , forums, blogs etc .

 

What to do ?  Well firstly I'd beef up QC at factory . It may just be model trains but ignore that for a moment , if you are spending £169-£189 on something , wouldn't you expect it to be perfect and working or have we all got money to burn?

 

Secondly I would have a strategic reserve that retailers can call down in the event of returns to make sure everyone that has pre ordered gets a good model. This is sensible DJM did it with his 71 and is now selling off the reserve he didn't need. So there's a small working capital cost on this

 

Thirdly, Id have a genuinely helpful customer helpline .

 

Yes it all costs money but QC is not optional. Many companies seem to think it is these days.

 

If manufacturers really want us to pre order with confidence  there is a quid pro quo , and that is we everyone that ordered gets a model in good condition and working. One comes with the other, its not tough luck

 

Hi Legend

Many thanks for your post. I certainly agree with the points you highlighted in a/b and c.

Organising the return for me personally is a major problem.

In 2002 I was diagnosed with a very rare incurable illness ( Wegeners Granulamatosis ) incidence is between 6 to 8 cases per

1 million head of population. The illness is a blood disorder where your own immune system is attempting to kill you by attacking various body organs. I am truly lucky to have survived for 15 years, however the initial illness has caused kidney failure, reoccurring skin cancers, and Axional Sensory-Motor Peripheral Neuropathy to both lower limbs - virtually unable to walk or stand..

My problems with R3555 are rather insignificant!

[Black 5 Bear]

This is where Hornby , and other modern companies, really go wrong. They are prepared to accept a certain % of defects. Well that's ok if you get a good one, but if you are one of the unfortunates its a major hassle

 

a) the initial disappointment

b) the issue of negotiating and organising return

c) getting a replacement , if indeed there is one to be had and its not sold out.

 

I think they fail to take into account the effect that small %(assuming it is a small %, not so sure about that) has in trashing their reputation , especially with internet , forums, blogs etc .

 

What to do ?  Well firstly I'd beef up QC at factory . It may just be model trains but ignore that for a moment , if you are spending £169-£189 on something , wouldn't you expect it to be perfect and working or have we all got money to burn?

 

Secondly I would have a strategic reserve that retailers can call down in the event of returns to make sure everyone that has pre ordered gets a good model. This is sensible DJM did it with his 71 and is now selling off the reserve he didn't need. So there's a small working capital cost on this

 

Thirdly, Id have a genuinely helpful customer helpline .

 

Yes it all costs money but QC is not optional. Many companies seem to think it is these days.

 

If manufacturers really want us to pre order with confidence  there is a quid pro quo , and that is we everyone that ordered gets a model in good condition and working. One comes with the other, its not tough luck

 

Spot on posting Sir !