Third-Rail EMU Photos

[SR Chris]

Talking of 3-Ceps, three of them passed Up through Whitstable in the space of four minutes on Monday, 17th February 2003

13:57 1108 and 1102 arrive with a Ramsgate to Victoria service

 

 

14:01 1116 passes with a Ramsgate to Faversham ECS

 

 

Hadn't noticed before how random the position of the high intensity headlight appears to be. Also note the differing patterns of the black paint above the corridor connection which was presumably intended to mask the inability to clean that area!

[SR Chris]

Clean and Grubby: Further variations on headlight positioning on 3-Ceps

Tuesday, 18th February 2003 

12.22 3-Ceps 1102 and 1103 call at Whitstable with a Victoria to Ramsgate service

 

[SR Chris]

Thursday, 27th February 2003 

Taken from the right side of the fence demarking the footpath leading to the Clifton Road foot crossing in Whitstable.

14:02 365505 and 365511 pass with a Ramsgate to Victoria working

 

 

14:04 Two minutes later 3-Cep 1116 rattles the pots in hot pursuit.

 

[SR Chris]

Friday, 28th February 2003 

The following day as the sun wasn't playing I chose the other side of the crossing to take the same two trains

14:04 Brand spanking new 375630 and 375708 form the Ramsgate to Victoria service today.  My first sighting of 630.

 

 

14:06 Whilst the Ramsgate to Faversham ECS was formed of 3-Cep 1105, note the smaller roller blind window in the full size box.

 

 

[Southernman46]

 

Thursday, 27th February 2003 

 

14:04 Two minutes later 3-Cep 1116 rattles the pots in hot pursuit.

Another railway sound gradually disappearing along with the di-dum, di-dum of jointed track is that characteristic "CHINK" that often announces the imminent arrival of an electric train (caused by the 000's of amps of traction current instantly heating everything) ............ as a consequence of the gradual but inexorable elimination of Bullers' ceramic insulators and their steel (height adjustment) top packers by the glass-fibre REHAU adjustable type ................................

[Judge Dread]

Another railway sound gradually disappearing along with the di-dum, di-dum of jointed track is that characteristic "CHINK" that often announces the imminent arrival of an electric train (caused by the 000's of amps of traction current instantly heating everything) ............ as a consequence of the gradual but inexorable elimination of Bullers' ceramic insulators and their steel (height adjustment) top packers by the glass-fibre REHAU adjustable type ................................

Perhaps you are the fellow to verify this ---------Conductor rails are not fastened to the pots, they just rest on them and this is the reason for the run up ramps at points to avoid the rail being displaced sideways . Also the need to have the rails in "short" lengths. In modelling terms when weathering these rails also paint out the clips moulded on the Peco pots which shouldn't be there.

[Southernman46]

Each length of conductor rail (regardless of length) is anchored with clips to up to 8 insulators (depending its length) at its mid-point, the remainder as you correctly say is free to move within the insulator "ears" - so most of the Peco clips (whilst essential) should be rendered "invisible"

[dibber25]

A few to be going on with, from a trip to Bexhill (for RAIL magazine) and Bishopstone (for personal interest) in 2010. Will try to scan some more historic ones. (CJL)

[Mike Storey]

Perhaps you are the fellow to verify this ---------Conductor rails are not fastened to the pots, they just rest on them and this is the reason for the run up ramps at points to avoid the rail being displaced sideways . Also the need to have the rails in "short" lengths. In modelling terms when weathering these rails also paint out the clips moulded on the Peco pots which shouldn't be there.

 

The other primary reason is so as not to rip the shoes off!

[Southernman46]

No, but all modern 3rd rail stock has the "frangible" joint shoegear which just breaks anyhow - the most dangerous invention on the railway in the last 20 years ........................ I've seen enough trackside and missing - one did go through the roof of Willesborough Xing keeper's hut back in the classic Eurostar days .................. moaned about them long and hard including to CIRAS  ............................. one of these fine days, one will hurtle through a crowded platform like a cannonball ..............................................

[roundhouse]

Seaford in 1986 when it had a bit more track

 

[John M Upton]

I now sign the Brighton to Seaford route and it has to be said, Newhaven Harbour and its surrounding environs really is a depressing and dilapidated place.  Sadly I only get to work it with a 313 rather than a nice A1X Terrier and a couple of semi-retired Maunsell's....

[talisman56]

 

Friday, 28th February 2003 

The following day as the sun wasn't playing I chose the other side of the crossing to take the same two trains

14:04 Brand spanking new 375630 and 375708 form the Ramsgate to Victoria service today.  My first sighting of 630.

 

sIMGP2272.jpg

 

14:06 Whilst the Ramsgate to Faversham ECS was formed of 3-Cep 1105, note the smaller roller blind window in the full size box.

 

sIMGP2275.jpg

 

 

The smaller blind in standard size box was characteristic of the last batch of CEPs (7205-11, into service in 1963)

Edited November 10, 2017 by talisman56

[SR Chris]

The smaller blind in standard size box was characteristic of the last batch of CEPs (7205-11, into service in 1963)

 

Since 1105 was formed from 1619 which was refurbished from 7207 that would figure.

[eastwestdivide]

Smaller blind boxes also on the last batches of 2-HAP and BR 4-EPB:

 

 

And I think on the ex-Tyneside 2-EPBs?

[andyman7]

I understood the 3-Ceps were created as some platforms (on either the Hastings or Tunbridge Wells routes or thereabouts) weren't long enough for 12 cars and it was deemed unacceptable to have the rear coach off the platform.  Adding a 3-Cep to the existing 8 car peak hour trains to make 11 cars was cheaper than extending the platforms.  They obviously had to be worked to/from Ramsgate for maintenance so were often seen in trains there.

 

However by the early 2000's they seemed to be used indiscriminately on Kent Coast services and 3, 6 and 9 car formations were not unusual.  They were also often substituted for 4-Ceps, so 7, 10 or 11 cars could also turn up instead of 8 or 12.  The only formation I never witnessed was 4 x 3-Cep, presumably as that would have exceeded the conductor rail index.

I'm not sure where that story emanated from but as I sat opposite the train service specification team at Connex at the time, I'm happy to share the actual reason.

 

The original idea for taking a vehicle out of the class 411 (CEP) units was to create some slam-door units that could match the acceleration of the 375s when delivered. As the 375 fleet was due to be brought in over several years, the reasoning was that this would permit accelerated schedules with a mix of 375 and CEP trains. However, the delivery of the new generation EMUs exposed a significant issue with lack of capability of the electrified 3rd rail network to support their enhanced power needs. Remember this was the early days of Railtrack and a whole host of shortcomings were being exposed in the stewardship of the infrastructure. In this case, the trains had been ordered against the 'book' capability of the route but the actual capability fell short. So instead, the 375s had to be tweaked to run on reduced power settings, a costly programme of electrification enhancement had to be undertaken across the southern network and the 3-CEPs ended up in the general fleet.

[SR Chris]

That's certainly the case for 1106 to 1118 (converted in 1999) but 1101 to 1105 were originally created in late 1998 to enable 11-car trains on the Tunbridge Wells to London services, which is also I believe the reason for the existence of the 3 car class 375s.

[SRman]

Smaller blind boxes also on the last batches of 2-HAP and BR 4-EPB:

 

M7_0011 6160 Denton Ranges 1982ish.jpg

N18_0009 5357 5151 St Johns 1983ish.jpg

 

And I think on the ex-Tyneside 2-EPBs?

 

Some of those last units with the reduced headcode panels also had slightly tapered windscreens. This is just visible on the unit arrowed.

 

Nice photos, eastwestdivide.

[Lyddrail]

 

Some of those last units with the reduced headcode panels also had slightly tapered windscreens. This is just visible on the unit arrowed.

 

Nice photos, eastwestdivide.

 

The phase 2 4EPBs were 5366-70, just checked pics of 5351 in eastwestdivide's pic, so 5351 was not but it has got a phase 2 m/c one end, found pic showing other m/c phase 1. All phase 2 units with small headcode boxes had tapered windscreens as did Haps & Ceps. Ex Tyneside EPBs had small headcode boxes added and original windscreens left.

Cheers. 

[eastwestdivide]

The phase 2 4EPBs were 5366-70, just checked pics of 5351 in eastwestdivide's pic, so 5351 was not but it has got a phase 2 m/c one end, found pic showing other m/c phase 1. All phase 2 units with small headcode boxes had tapered windscreens as did Haps & Ceps. Ex Tyneside EPBs had small headcode boxes added and original windscreens left.

Cheers. 

(my bold above)

Number typo alert - it's 5357 in my photo and the SR-pattern one is 5151. I also have a photo of 5359 with small boxes. Surely the phase 2 BR 4-EPBs were more than just a batch of 5 (5366-70)?

 ... Phase 2 listed as 5357-5370 on the Blood & Custard site at http://www.bloodandcustard.com/epbbr001.html

[Southernman46]

and the ex-Tyneside 2-EPB's were very rarely if ever seen on the SED of the SR

Edited November 13, 2017 by Southernman46

[Lyddrail]

(my bold above)

Number typo alert - it's 5357 in my photo and the SR-pattern one is 5151. I also have a photo of 5359 with small boxes. Surely the phase 2 BR 4-EPBs were more than just a batch of 5 (5366-70)?

 ... Phase 2 listed as 5357-5370 on the Blood & Custard site at http://www.bloodandcustard.com/epbbr001.html

 

Yes, you are correct, I was reading SEG book "Southern Region MU Trains" 3rd edition, if I had read on "and 5366-70, now withdrawn".

Cheers.

[talisman56]

The final batch of BR Standard 4EPBs were 5357-70, which were in service between late 1962 and 1963, hence the shallow box on eastwestdivide's photo of 5357 above. (Source: The Electric Multiple Units of British Railways 1972, Auth: P. Mallaband, Publ: The Electric Railway Society)

 

The common date for all the shallow headcode panel units seems to be 1963. The 'Tyneside' 2EPBs were different in that they were introduced in 1954/55 but were transferred to the Southern Region 1963/64 and had the LNER 5-lamp indicator replaced by a shallow roller-blind box.

[iands]

On a slightly different tack, I thought I'd share a few photos I took of the driving cab of the class 378 when working on the ELL job during the test running/commissioning phase. Not a lot of room and the driver can't do much else other than look straight ahead! Hope they are of some interest.

 

Regards, Ian.

 

[iands]

On a slightly different tack, I thought I'd share a few photos I took of the driving cab of the class 378 when working on the ELL job during the test running/commissioning phase. Not a lot of room and the driver can't do much else other than look straight ahead! Hope they are of some interest.

 

Regards, Ian.

 

DSC00797.JPG

DSC00798.JPG

DSC00800.JPG

DSC00801.JPG

 

Perhaps I should have included this view from the driving cab as well. It is from the following day (the photo was in a different file to the previous four photos) and again from the drivers seat but this time looking out from within the maintenance facility at New Cross Gate depot.

 

Regards, Ian.