Bachmann 00 61xx GWR tank?

[Ian Hargrave]

In the world of 'exclusive advantage', it doesn't play well to go about advertising intentions, until the 11th hour, 59th minute. At least until the product is a goer. If Bachmann want to make a 51xx,that's fine. So is Hornby. Don't underestimate the people from Margate. After some top-rate stuff coming from all angles, nothing surprises me any more.

 

Ian.

 

Totally logical....

[Miss Prism]

Don't underestimate the people from Margate.

 

I agree, but that's why my heart sank slightly at the recent news of the return of Simon Kohler, who never showed the slightest inclination to revamp the excellent inherited Airfix and Mainline inventory during his previous tenure in office. The choice of popular prototypes by Airfix and Mainline was astute.

[gwrrob]

I agree, but that's why my heart sank slightly at the recent news of the return of Simon Kohler, who never showed the slightest inclination to revamp the excellent inherited Airfix and Mainline inventory during his previous tenure in office. The choice of popular prototypes by Airfix and Mainline was astute.

Expect to see 4472 and other Eastern items coming soon...

[The Johnster]

While I am quite happy to join in the speculation and comment, second guessing what RTR manufacturers are likely to do in the future is a mug's game, especially when it conflated with wishlisting for something you'd like for your own reasons; you can see all sorts of really good reasons that the model should be introduced, because perhaps it is a class of hundreds that were common for years and widely geographically spread; it's a no-brainer, right?

 

Well, you'd have thought so, but there may be other factors that we are not aware of that a manufacturer needs to take into account.  I'd agree that a class of over 400 locos built by the GWR should on paper be a much better seller than the Manor that everybody talks so much about, but I'd expect the Manor and a re-release of 8750 first.

[The Stationmaster]

I don't think we'll be seeing a GW large prairie from Bachmann.

[tomparryharry]

While I am quite happy to join in the speculation and comment, second guessing what RTR manufacturers are likely to do in the future is a mug's game, especially when it conflated with wishlisting for something you'd like for your own reasons; you can see all sorts of really good reasons that the model should be introduced, because perhaps it is a class of hundreds that were common for years and widely geographically spread; it's a no-brainer, right?

 

Well, you'd have thought so, but there may be other factors that we are not aware of that a manufacturer needs to take into account.  I'd agree that a class of over 400 locos built by the GWR should on paper be a much better seller than the Manor that everybody talks so much about, but I'd expect the Manor and a re-release of 8750 first.

 I'd respectfully suggest that the Bachmann 8750 compresses the historical time line too tightly. That 'blessed top feed' limits the period from the late 1930, to the 60's. The earlier locomotives however, have a far greater timespan, from the Edwardian period, up until the  1950's. Will it sell? Well, that's down to Hornby. I see no reason why not, Hornby have demonstrated they can turn out quality kit. Will Hornby make it? That, I'm afraid, is a different story. Anything Western is liable to attract scrutiny beyond belief. Is it worth the hassle?

 

I think I'll stick with the Bachmann panniers. There's not too much wrong, even that 'blessed top feed'.... Come on Hornby, prove me wrong.

 

Ian.

[GWR8700]

I reckon that Hornby will make different variations of the large prairies in much the same way that they made the different variations of the 4 coupled heavy freight tanks.  How many new steam releases do Hornby usually announce per year?  I'm fairly sure that they'll be announcing a Caley 812 this year, maybe the large prairies will be in 2019?

 

In regards to the Bachmann 57xx/8750, I can't really see a re-release in the near future given the hesitancy to even make a DCC ready chassis for a Manor or 43xx. Also, the new 64xx has only been produced with a top feed added so I think an upgraded Pannier covering the many alterations is sadly many years away.

Edited October 10, 2017 by GWR8700

[The Johnster]

Yes, the top feed issue on GW panniers, and 14/48/58xx, and Dean Goods, is an issue which is a little annoying.  It is surely not beyond the wit of man to produce such locos without a top feed and include it in the box as a detail to be added by the owner to his/her own choice, along perhaps with a selection of number plates (ideally etched brass) for a variety of suitable locos.  We are paying top dollar for some of these models (I'll exclude the Hornby 2721 and new Railroad 14xx from this) and this sort of additional detail could be included at very little extra cost.  Top feeds are easier to stick on than they are to hack, file, and make good to remove!

 

I am quite happy with my top feed fitted panniers, and will put up with the one on the Railroad 14xx despite it being wrong for the loco I wish to model in the livery I wish to use, but would prefer to have a choice, and it is possible that sales are being lost because of this.

[luke_stevens]

The wheels won't fit on my 16mm gauge track...

True, but the wheels on the rebulit 47XX happen to be identical...

 

So Heljan has the CADs and the correct wheels.

 

Wouldn't that be nice ?

 

Luke

[Miss Prism]

True, but the wheels on the rebulit 47XX happen to be identical...

 

So Heljan has the CADs and the correct wheels.

 

Wouldn't that be nice ?

 

 

If Heljan scale down their 7mm Prairie, those wheels will be about the only thing that is correct.

[JSpencer]

I agree, but that's why my heart sank slightly at the recent news of the return of Simon Kohler, who never showed the slightest inclination to revamp the excellent inherited Airfix and Mainline inventory during his previous tenure in office. The choice of popular prototypes by Airfix and Mainline was astute.

 

In fairness Simon did have the older poorer Hornby and Lima ranges to revamp before that. I am certain manufacturers face difficult choices on what to invest in next. Now replacing really obsolete models dating from Hornby's 80s range is easy as they hardly looked like the photos (remember they used drawings on boxes to avoid showing how basic the model inside was). But when it comes to choosing between replacing models that do have a decent though far from perfect representation of the prototype OR  tooling a new entire class, I can well imagine the latter is often chosen for no other reason than there being a bigger market demand.

 

Bachmann had doubts over an all new V2 so only tooled up the chassis as first. And the J72 nearly went the same way, but in the end both are/will appear as entirely new tooling.

(The Nelson must pose even bigger questions. On the other hand the larger more versatile 43XX/93XX and Manors should be a no brainier for retooling especially as the tenders are already done).

 

Modern image (Diesels/Electrics etc) on the other hand, are another story. Their following must be as great as steam but there are far far fewer classes to choose from. So the fact that - say - both Dapol and Heljan have done Westerns is no surprise.

Edited October 12, 2017 by JSpencer

[tomparryharry]

Respectfully, there's quite a lot of difference between a 47xx, and a large prairie. There's a significant different wheel diameter for a start, anything from 5'3" to 5'8". Ride height, wheel spacing, to name but a few.

 

There's still a hue & cry over losing a prairie, to being cut up to provide parts for a 47xx.

 

If Heljan make a 47xx, that's great. I wouldn't expect to see a Hornby chassis being stuffed inside, and calling a 61xx. If a rivet is so much by a scale 1/32" out of true, you can expect another 50-odd pages of forum, and that's just the profile of the rivet! Little wonder, therefore, that things like the 94xx haven't graced our shelves just yet.

 

I guess it's all a question of sales. If you make a really good model, it sets the standard for succeeding models. Which would you buy? A 30+ years model, with sometimes poor attention to detail, or for £2:25 more, you can purchase a faithful copy of the real thing. I leave you, the jury, to decide....

 

Ian.

[Legend]

36 postings, ooops now 37 , on something that hasn't been announced and is merely wishful thinking. Is this what Donald calls Fake News

Edited October 12, 2017 by Legend

[woodenhead]

36 postings, ooops now 37 , on something that hasn't been announced and is merely wishful thinking. Is this what Donald calls Fake News

There have been a few posts of pseudo wish listing of late where the name of a manufacturer and a loco or coach are linked and it becomes a debate on how likely and accurate that model might be.

 

This year there isn't even a wishlist poll to allow people an outlet - lets hope that is because the plans of Bachmann, Hornby, Dapol, Minerva, Rapido, RevolutioN, RealTrack, Kernow, Rails, Hattons, Little Train Company (is that the right name?), SLW, Heljan & DJM are so comprehensive that the poll would be a waste of time.

[Covkid]

I don't think we'll be seeing a GW large prairie from Bachmann.

 

 

I'll bow to your superior knowledge then "The Stationmaster".

 

In my view the Manor, 43xx and large prairie share significant commonality, the former two being inherited items in the Bachmann back catalogue.

 

Just sayin

[Dunsignalling]

Also different size boilers. different frames, different cabs, etc. Particularly on the 31XX, 3150 and 51XX (not to be confused with the 5101 series).

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GWR_5100_Class

 

 

 

Jason

The OP did specify a 61xx in his question and, by extension, that's close enough to a 5101 to make it sensible to cover both. A total of 210 locos out of a possible 290 (I think), and the ones that survived longest.

 

There has been plenty of time for someone to take that on, so I don't really see it happening any time soon and the more involved variations would most likely be left well alone. I'd certainly not expect anyone to diverge from 5' 8" driving wheels.

 

John

Edited October 12, 2017 by Dunsignalling

[adb968008]

I thought I would add the 41st post, to suggest that we have 41 posts about an existing Hornby tool that Bachmann hasn’t (publically) even hinted they would make, by pointing out on the Hornby thread there are now 6 pages about a Bachmann coach that Hornby hasn’t (publically) even hinted they would make either.

 

It’s gone from wishlisting to fantasy-toolings, is the next step virtual retailing, then ghost modelling followed by holographic mazak rot !

 

This is how they did fake news in the old days, but even the fake news was a fake reaction to the fake story.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/radio/what-to-listen-to/the-war-of-the-worlds-panic-was-a-myth/

 

So let me seed this 51xx story with a bit of fakery..

 

A Chinese model manufacturer is producing a 51xx, they forgot to scale the CAD drawing to OO and accidentally created the toolings and motors for a full size 51xx.

As the CAD engineers are in a different location to the tool cutters no one noticed until the tools were made and the first test shots made.

As the EPs were too big, photos were sent to the commissioner in the UK who signed them off, and the paint samples too, noting how realistic they look.

As it was Chinese New Years, the staff were new and didn’t question it, until 250 were made.

Ships were loaded and the 61xxs arrived in Southampton.

The commissioner was informed via email that due to unexpected amounts of materials were needed the price had risen since inception and each model increased from £125 to £125k.

On the same day the £ crashed and hyper inflation makes £125k the same price as a Big Mac, so they immediately sell out.

The commissioner mistook the k for the yuan currency symbol and duly paid.

Buyers are being contacted to hire low loaders to collect their new 51xx purchases, but the limited edition certificate will be sent in the post.

However in this case, all models will be sold unboxed, but they are 750v 3rd rail DC ready.

 

It’s true, I promise, bloke at Platform 4 at Basingstoke saw a fella driving 4 of them up the lswr tonight...

Hat.. coat.. exit...to the ebay bargains thread looking for the first one to appear on the new “RealRails” username representing 1:1 gauge modelling.

Edited October 12, 2017 by adb968008

[tomparryharry]

I though I would add the 41st post, to suggest that we have 41 posts about an existing Hornby tool that Bachman. Hasn’t (publically) even hinted they would make, by pointing out on the Hornby thread there are now 6 pages about a Bachmann coach that Hornby hasn’t (publically) even hinted they would make either.

 

It’s gone from wishlisting to fantasy-toolings, is the next step virtual retailing ?

 

This is how they did fake news in the old days, but even the fake news was a fake reaction to the fake story.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/radio/what-to-listen-to/the-war-of-the-worlds-panic-was-a-myth/

 

So let me seed this 51xx story with a bit of fakery..

 

A Chinese model manufacturer is producing a 51xx, they forgot to scale the CAD drawing to OO and accidentally created the toolings and motors for a full size 51xx.

As the CAD engineers are in a different location to the tool cutters no one noticed until the tools were made and the first test shots made.

As the EPs were too big, photos were sent to the commissioner in the UK who signed them off, and the paint samples too, noting how realistic they look.

As it was Chinese New Years, the staff were new and didn’t question it, until 250 were made.

Ships were loaded and the 61xxs arrived in Southampton.

The commissioner was informed via email that due to unexpected amounts of materials were needed the price had risen since inception and each model increased from £125 to £125k.

On the same day the £ crashed and hyper inflation makes £125k the same price as a Big Mac, so they immediately sell out.

The commissioner mistook the k for the yuan currency symbol and duly paid.

Buyers are being contacted to hire low loaders to collect their new 51xx purchases, but the limited edition certificate will be sent in the post.

However in this case, all models will be sold unboxed, but they are 750v 3rd rail DC ready.

 

It’s true, I promise, bloke at Platform 4 at Basingstoke saw a fella driving 4 of them up the lswr tonight.

Old news I'm afraid. The little old lady who does the fruit & veg at Tesco's, Pontypool, said that the staff canteen is well up to date with the news. The best place for inside information is the cashier (Olive:- Nice girl) on the petrol pumps at Tesco's in Margate.

 

She couldn't stop, as she's doing the spark eroding machine on night shift.

 

Ian.

[luke_stevens]

<snip>. There's a significant different wheel diameter for a start, anything from 5'3" to 5'8".

 

<snip>

 

Ian.

 

I have the driving wheels of 47XX, 5101 and 61XX all at 5'8".

 

The new build 47XX is using the 5'8" wheels from 4115. If they weren't acceptably correct they wouldn't be using them. Swindon standardisation at it's best.

 

Not sure where you get the 5'3" from. Were you thinking of the 5 highly non-standard 3100's that Collett rebuilt in '38 from 3150's?

 

Luke

[Horsetan]

Not sure where you get the 5'3" from. Were you thinking of the 5 highly non-standard 3100's that Collett rebuilt in '38 from 3150's?...

Or indeed the apparently one-off 5'6" fitted to a single 61xx.

[Dunsignalling]

Or indeed the apparently one-off 5'6" fitted to a single 61xx.

And the ten members of the 81xx class.

[frobisher]

Is this what Donald calls Fake News

No, 'cos it is actually Fake News

[tomparryharry]

Fake news? Yes, I quite agree.

 

There is however, a positive side to this.

 

If anyone reading these posts from a makers point of view, will hopefully read this and steer well clear of any pratfalls that may come their way.

 

Much better to have a high-fidelity model to universal acclaim, than much critism.

 

Sort of makes sense, doesn't it?

 

Ian.

Edited October 13, 2017 by tomparryharry

[Hilux5972]

Exactly Ian. People on here often seem to forget for every member that moans and complains, there is another who is genuinely offering advice to the manufacturers that do read this forum and appreciate the input into making a model the best it can be.

[Horsetan]

And the ten members of the 81xx class.

....and those.