Kings Cross York Road & Suburban Platforms

[mark54]

Class 46s were a daily sight at KX, from the 1960s until the 1980s. GD had half the class for ages.

1D02 was the 12:20 KX-Cleethorpes. In Aug 1973 this Cleethorpes set was formed with Mk2a stock, so suitable for Class 46 haulage. They were not uncommon on these workings.

[Mike Storey]

Class 46s were a daily sight at KX, from the 1960s until the 1980s. GD had half the class for ages.

 1970' and 1980's?? I was an avid watcher of the ECML at Oakleigh Park and New Barnet from 1969 until 1975 (living at the time just 1,000 yards from both), and then from 1987 actually working at the Cross. I never saw one.

[chris p bacon]

 1970' and 1980's?? I was an avid watcher of the ECML at Oakleigh Park and New Barnet from 1969 until 1975 (living at the time just 1,000 yards from both), and then from 1987 actually working at the Cross. I never saw one.

 

Looking at my spotting notes from the mid/late 70's we had a Peterborough Stopper that arrived in Sandy a 18.35/40 and was usually a 'foreign' engine. 46's turned up regularly on this as well as 40's & 31's but rarely a 47.

There was also a Northbound Freightliner at approx 20.30 that was 46 hauled about 75% of the time.

Edited December 20, 2017 by chris p bacon

[Guest]

Some more LT movements I've just stumbled across.

 

Peak, Kings X by Will Welch, on Flickr

 

Tube Car, Kings X by Will Welch, on Flickr

 

Tube stock, Kings X by Will Welch, on Flickr

 

 

I don't think I've ever seen a picture of 1938 tube stock passing through a BR platform. I wonder how far up the doors the platform edge would have been as that movement passed through Platform 16?

 

Edit: I can picture it, but I've never seen a picture of it if you know what I mean...

Edited December 20, 2017 by Pete 75C

[russ p]

Just noticed what appears to be a small child stowing away in the back cab of the battery loco!

[Nearholmer]

Pete

 

The equivalent happens on a minute-by-minte basis on the Bakerloo Line, between Queens Park and Harrow And Wealdstone (formerly all the way to Watford Jct), so you can try it for yourself.

 

It is a bit weird when the doors open and the platform nosing is on a level with your knees!

 

Russ

 

It's a member of train crew, a shunter probably. The floor of the cab is below/behind the sole-bar, which makes the guy look very small.

 

I think the guys in the front cab are standing up, which gives you an idea of how low the floor is.

 

Kevin

Edited December 20, 2017 by Nearholmer

[Guest]

Pete

 

The equivalent happens on a minute-by-minte basis on the Bakerloo Line, between Queens Park and Harrow on the Hill (formerly all the way to Watford Jct), so you can try it for yourself.

 

It is a bit weird when the doors open and the platform nosing is on a level with your knees!

 

Thanks Kevin - I shall have to Google that. It's years since I travelled regularly on the Underground and then mostly on District Line surface stock.

[Nearholmer]

Good illustration here. http://londonbusesbyadam.zenfolio.com/p224721884/h15F5C6F2#h15f5c6f2

 

I think the track is now set to give 'compromise height' at platforms, with a step up into main line stock and a step down into tubes. In the past there were places where the step down into Tube was quite large. Not ideal from a DDA perspective!

 

Similar challenges apply within the LU network, at places like Acton Town, where Tube and subsurface stock share platforms. Photo Wikipedia commons.

Edited December 20, 2017 by Nearholmer

[stovepipe]

 1970' and 1980's?? I was an avid watcher of the ECML at Oakleigh Park and New Barnet from 1969 until 1975 (living at the time just 1,000 yards from both), and then from 1987 actually working at the Cross. I never saw one.

 

They were pretty common at the Cross and FP, in my records between 1978 and 1983. All withdrawn by end of 1984. They often worked the overnight trains, until the Mk1 sleepers were replaced by the Mk3s.

 

Edit: I found a 4th photo of the LT stock move by the same photographer, so I have added a BB link to my post on the previous page.

 

Standard link here

https://flic.kr/p/o8eQPH

Edited December 20, 2017 by stovepipe

[eastwestdivide]

Class 46s were a daily sight at KX, from the 1960s until the 1980s. GD had half the class for ages.

On that subject, I didn't stand around at KX much, usually just passing through, but a trawl through some old notebooks for 46s there in the 1980s found:

1) from "just passing through" KX:

27/7/80 early morning no 46s, but 2 40s on Mk1 sleepers

1/8/80 early morning 46051

16/8/80 midday no 46s

21/9/80 1000ish 46014

18/12/82, 2100ish, no 46s

13/4/82, 0730ish, 46029 (also 46038 on Finsbury Park as we headed north)

29/9/83 about 0730, 46047

 

2) on an overnight Doncaster, 12/6/82, 46051 on a long train of Mk1s including Newton-Chambers car carriers, which presumably worked to/from KX.

[D854_Tiger]

They were pretty common at the Cross and FP, in my records between 1978 and 1983. All withdrawn by end of 1984. They often worked the overnight trains, until the Mk1 sleepers were replaced by the Mk3s.

 

Edit: I found a 4th photo of the LT stock move by the same photographer, so I have added a BB link to my post on the previous page.

 

Standard link here

https://flic.kr/p/o8eQPH

 

I can certainly remember seeing them there and my visits to KX were only occasional.

 

One particular example, being a XC non-favourite us spotters always seemed to encounter at New Street on XC workings, was greeted with howls of derision when we got to KX and there it was, as if it had been following us around.

 

We got to the same level of disdain with Deltic 9011, blimey our unaffordable (on teenage funds) trips to the EC were few and far between, as it was, without that b****r always turning up.

 

Sadly, one that never made it into preservation and how I regret that now.

[Swindon 123]

Class 46s were a daily sight at KX, from the 1960s until the 1980s. GD had half the class for ages.

According to my copies of the KX traincrew diagrams for 1979 & 80 whilst I was working there, 46's where booked traction on 1N12, 00,02 hours departure, and on the up 1A40, one of the southbound postal's, due into "The Cross" at 02.51 (SuX when it was booked a 47). There was another northbound turn with a 46 at the head. This was 1D05, the 17.12hrs from Kings Cross to Grantham, which we took back to Peterborough LE, having left the coaches stabled at Grantham. The 46 was stabled at Peterborough for a couple of hours before another set of KX men worked it back to KX as 5B26 from Peterborough West Yard, arriving at Kings Cross freight terminal at 22.46hrs, before  proceeding LE to KX to go on the front of 1N12. The 46 loco Dia would have been 1A40 into KX then LE to Fins Pk. LE Fins Pk to KX for 1D05 to Grantham, then back LE to P'borough for 5B26 to KX freight terminal, LE to KX for 1N12 back up north, then start all over again. I don't believe that this lasted past the May 1981 timetable change, (possibly May 1980), as the 17.12hrs, 1D05 to Grantham was cut back to Peterborough and lost the 46 power to a 31, but 46's did keep on appearing at Kings Cross until the summer of 1982 at least. 

 

I have many photos of 46's working in and around Kings Cross on a variety of services which can be found in my Flickr Class 46 album, to be found here.

https://flic.kr/s/aHskWkdM4K

 

For the record here is a list of 46's i photographed at or around Kings Cross.

46010, 46026, 46029, 46032, 46035,6,7,8. 46043, 46044, 46050, 46051, 46055. 

 

I also know that 46001 also put in an appearance, after being dragged out of the Swindon scrap/stored line, and also 46048 and 46049, as I drove them both. This list cannot be considered exhaustive, as I wasn't there 24 hours a day. BR wouldn't let me.

 

Paul J.

[roythebus]

Pete

 

The equivalent happens on a minute-by-minte basis on the Bakerloo Line, between Queens Park and Harrow And Wealdstone (formerly all the way to Watford Jct), so you can try it for yourself.

 

It is a bit weird when the doors open and the platform nosing is on a level with your knees!

 

Russ

 

It's a member of train crew, a shunter probably. The floor of the cab is below/behind the sole-bar, which makes the guy look very small.

 

I think the guys in the front cab are standing up, which gives you an idea of how low the floor is.

 

Kevin

 

They had a Neasden LT "fluffy link" motorman and a BR conductor driver. the rear loco would have a fluffy Link driver and LT guard along with a BR conductor guard, the conductor crew being for route knowledge. Prior to the bridge at finsbury Park being demolished, the stock transfer to Drayton Park was from Highgate Wood sidings via Crouch Hill to Drayton Park. There is a picture in Jim Blake's book on the northern Heights showing the 1960 Cravens tube stock passing Crouch End, probably the most modern train to go through there!

. 

[roythebus]

In my days at KX we had 45s and 46s on a fairly regular basis, not so much on 40s. We never liked them as they weren't as fast as the Deltics or 47s for express work. I suspect they were kept on as steam heat was removed from the top link 47s

[stovepipe]

Prior to the bridge at finsbury Park being demolished, the stock transfer to Drayton Park was from Highgate Wood sidings via Crouch Hill to Drayton Park. There is a picture in Jim Blake's book on the northern Heights showing the 1960 Cravens tube stock passing Crouch End, probably the most modern train to go through there!

. 

 

Yes indeed, there is a photo of a stock move at Crouch End on disused-stations.org.uk The weekly stock moves via Kings Cross began in October 1970 and finished in October 1975 I believe.

[caradoc]

There are also some photos of the LT stock transfer moves in the book 'London's Railways 1967-1977' (Jim Blake, Pen & Sword Transport 2015) in the 1969/70 period, including a couple crossing the flyover at Finsbury Park. Presumably BR removed the bridge to save money, but it must have made stock transfer much more complicated for LT, requiring the moves via the Widened Lines and Kings X. 

[stovepipe]

I suppose it did come down to money in the end, but the reason given for closure was weak bridges. The station buildings at Crouch End were built on the overbridge which had to have an additional support inserted in the middle of the down line, so even though there were two tracks in situ only the up line was useable. The overbridge at Finsbury Park was an issue I read somewhere. Some more photos of the Crouch End line here. http://overground.eu.org/heights/

 

Slightly more on topic is this old RMW thread which includes the working details for the stock transfer via KX

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/102936-38-stock-transfers-between-neasden-and-drayton-park/

[robertcwp]

Here are some photos of the LT stock transfers via King's Cross and the Widened Lines:

 

L37_KX_1971 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

L44_Farringdon_15-9-75 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

Battery-1938_Holloway_SEP-71 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

[Guest]

I know this is veering OT, but bear with me... were the stock transfers always top and tailed by the battery locos?

On any model that included a representation of the climb up through Platform 16 at KX, what a fantastic sight that would be. I know Radley Models do the loco in either whitemetal or resin (I can't remember which) and EFE do the tube...

Scratches head and devises a cunning plan...

[Nearholmer]

I believe so. Certainly every one of the several times that I saw them they were, and possibly LT didn’t have anything else suitable at the time. There were two or three sentinel 4WDH [possibly 0-6-0DH, actually] locos, but I don’t think they had tube drawgear. Roy can doubtless tell us that, and whether there were ‘tube gauge’ sections en-route anywhere.

Edited December 21, 2017 by Nearholmer

[Clive Mortimore]

I know this is veering OT, but bear with me... were the stock transfers always top and tailed by the battery locos?

On any model that included a representation of the climb up through Platform 16 at KX, what a fantastic sight that would be. I know Radley Models do the loco in either whitemetal or resin (I can't remember which) and EFE do the tube...

Scratches head and devises a cunning plan...

Hi Pete

 

They were, the journey had reversals at Farringdon and Finsbury Park.

[Joseph_Pestell]

Hi Pete

 

They were, the journey had reversals at Farringdon and Finsbury Park.

 

Robert's 1975  photo suggests that the train has reversed somewhere beyond Farringdon.

[Nearholmer]

Doesn't that picture show the train going towards the grid-iron, on the way to Farringdon?

[Clive Mortimore]

Robert's 1975  photo suggests that the train has reversed somewhere beyond Farringdon.

Hi Joseph

 

It has crossed over form the Met line using the crossover that use to be used by the GWR trains gaining access to the sidings at Smithfield. That is the one in the photo, the LT train would have crossed over and reversed at the platform the Brush Type 2  is alongside in this photo. By 1970 all other crossovers between BR and LT on the Widened Lines had been lifted.

[Edwin_m]

Doesn't that picture show the train going towards the grid-iron, on the way to Farringdon?

If that's a tail lamp then I think it's going towards the grid-iron but away from Farringdon (taken from the western end of the platform as it probably was at the time).  Although as it hasn't used the crossover it may well have come through from somewhere beyond the station. 

Edited December 21, 2017 by Edwin_m