Peco Bullhead Points: in the flesh

[Chamby]

C&L type of rail joiner pictured here: they do fit the Peco track, and are insulating.

 

 

 

Again you can see the slightly different gauge between C&L track and the Peco point, I work around this by flaring the rails slightly near the join.  I'm currently using up some of the C&L track I already have:  as others have shown, if you use Peco flexitrack, the gauge is consistent with their points.

 

Phil

[Brian Kirby]

Well this is a thread about the new Peco bullhead points, so by definition from previous threads, it's largely going to be a fact free zone. In addition to colour of sleepers, you can add profitability, availability and non existent London Exhibitions and that's just the last 24hrs...

I'm pleased to see PMP back from the wilderness, otherwise known as Blogland (or other fora). I bought a pair of these new bullhead points to try, at the South-West London show on Saturday, they look very good, lovely point blades, however the skewed sleepers at the frog end could have been avoided. Fine for turn of the century layouts, and any sidings then or now, but a bit odd for any post-Grouping (1923 onwards) main line junctions, where the point timbers would normally be at 90 degrees to the straight route stock rail, although i'm sure you'll find odd exceptions here and there. The Peco timbers are moulded solid and fixed on hard, so cannot be altered without a major rebuild, which would be a nonsense, might as well build the whole thing if it bothers you.

      For finescale modellers, the common-or-garden 3-bolt chairs that Peco have sensibly chosen, are not correct for any GWR-BR/WR layouts, which would need 2-bolt chairs, so Larry Coach will have to only look at the single-bolt side of each chair, if he uses them on Carrog. But then again, who cares, who stares at chair bolts(?), these new points are a major step forward. I wonder how many EM or P4 modellers will secretly sneak back to modelling OO, i've got a foot in both camps, or should that be all three?  

                                         Cheers, Brian.

Edited November 14, 2017 by Brian Kirby

[Skinnylinny]

I bought a pair of these new bullhead points to try, at the South-West London show on Saturday, they look very good, lovely point blades, however the skewed sleepers at the frog end could have been avoided. Fine for turn of the century layouts, and any sidings then or now, but a bit odd for any post-Grouping (1923 onwards) main line junctions, where the point timbers would normally be at 90 degrees to the straight route stock rail, although i'm sure you'll find odd exceptions here and there. The Peco timbers are moulded solid and fixed on hard, so cannot be altered without a major rebuild, which would be a nonsense, might as well build the whole thing if it bothers you.

 

In my case, I'm delighted by the skewed sleepers - I'm modelling a pre-grouping branch terminus, although at least I'm not having to worry about the interleaved sleepers on turnouts favoured by companies such as the NBR! However, whether the sleepers would even be visible in my time period is more of a concern - the earlier companies had a predilection for ballasting over the top of the sleepers...

Edited November 14, 2017 by Skinnylinny

[LBRJ]

Or you put clear nail varnish on the end of the rails to insulate them. No nasty plastic things needed then 

[Tim Dubya]

But then again, who cares, who stares at chair bolts(?)

 

I do!

 

OMG!

 

I've just realised I chopped the wrong type of chairs (3 bolt standard) to make 'special' chairs... I know I should have used slide chairs.

 

That's tonight's sleep interrupted!

[LNER4479]

So I wonder.....how many layouts with the new track will now appear in MRJ, and which will be the first?

More to the point (ha!) who's going to be running trains over the stuff at Warley?...

[Jeff Smith]

There's some irony here. It seems that a mega-leap has been taken from underscale FB track with non-representative rail fixings to broadly correct appearance rail, chairs and sleepers/spacing. Now we are discussing individual Company track style....back to hand-built for some no doubt!

[Tim Dubya]

There's some irony here. It seems that a mega-leap has been taken from underscale FB track with non-representative rail fixings to broadly correct appearance rail, chairs and sleepers/spacing. Now we are discussing individual Company track style....back to hand-built for some no doubt!

 

Yep, get it here!

[Sandpiper]

A few cruel close ups. Bear in mind these are straight out of the packet posed on a piece of paper on the carpet but hopefully give an indication of what they might look like in use (edited to add missing pic I'd originally intended to include).

Edited November 14, 2017 by Sandpiper

[coachmann]

 

      For finescale modellers, the common-or-garden 3-bolt chairs that Peco have sensibly chosen, are not correct for any GWR-BR/WR layouts, which would need 2-bolt chairs, so Larry Coach will have to only look at the single-bolt side of each chair, if he uses them on Carrog. But then again, who cares, who stares at chair bolts(?), these new points are a major step forward. 

I agree but as you say, who will be staring at chairs............... I haven't studied GWR track. I have heard the art of discrimination is not to let the other feller do the discriminating for you, so I content myself by doing things my way in the firm knowledge that things will at least look okay despite compromise. Mind you, some cloud-cuckoolanders will probably chuckle at my surface-mounted Peco point motors.... 

Edited November 14, 2017 by coachmann

[Captain Kernow]

But then again, who cares, who stares at chair bolts(?)

Quite right - once track is laid, ballasted and weathered, and from 'normal viewing distances', who can really tell?

A few cruel close ups. Bear in mind these are straight out of the packet posed on a piece of paper on the carpet but hopefully give an indication of what they might look like in use.

It occurs to me that the gap between the blades and the stock rail is a tad wide, so I might end up replacing the tie bars on mine and closing the gap a little.

[Mallard60022]

I'm pleased to see PMP back from the wilderness, otherwise known as Blogland (or other fora). I bought a pair of these new bullhead points to try, at the South-West London show on Saturday, they look very good, lovely point blades, however the skewed sleepers at the frog end could have been avoided. Fine for turn of the century layouts, and any sidings then or now, but a bit odd for any post-Grouping (1923 onwards) main line junctions, where the point timbers would normally be at 90 degrees to the straight route stock rail, although i'm sure you'll find odd exceptions here and there. The Peco timbers are moulded solid and fixed on hard, so cannot be altered without a major rebuild, which would be a nonsense, might as well build the whole thing if it bothers you.

      For finescale modellers, the common-or-garden 3-bolt chairs that Peco have sensibly chosen, are not correct for any GWR-BR/WR layouts, which would need 2-bolt chairs, so Larry Coach will have to only look at the single-bolt side of each chair, if he uses them on Carrog. But then again, who cares, who stares at chair bolts(?), these new points are a major step forward. I wonder how many EM or P4 modellers will secretly sneak back to modelling OO, i've got a foot in both camps, or should that be all three? BTW, even with DCC, you'll still need insulated rails in a few places (e.g. Crossovers), so you either leave an air gap, or as stated above, use a plastic N gauge joiner/fishplate. 

                                         Cheers, Brian.

Someone that looks at my layout and the finger points and the words begin to flow................meanwhile I'm falling asleep at the controls!

Ar$e

[tomparryharry]

I've wondered if shellac, painted on the rail ends, is an effective insulation agent. Given a good mix with grey paint, and once ballasted, should keep the shorts at bay. If you're worried about the bolt heads on chairs, you should see the keep washers underneath. blessed great things.....*

 

Ian.

 

Mind you, I haven't had a chance to play with them yet.*= Only in real life.

[tender]

 BTW, even with DCC, you'll still need insulated rails in a few places (e.g. Crossovers), so you either leave an air gap, or as stated above, use a plastic N gauge joiner/fishplate. 

                                         Cheers, Brian.

 

 

Humm, i thought the whole idea of 'Unifrog' was to avoid the need for insulators. Looking at the turnout the insulator is contained within the 'unifrog' section of the turnout.

(Unlike the FB turnout where the frog extends to the end of the turnout thus requiring insulators for a crossover.) 

Edited November 14, 2017 by tender

[Echo]

Humm, i thought the whole idea of 'Unifrog' was to avoid the need for insulators. Looking at the turnout the insulator is contained within the 'unifrog' section of the turnout.

(Unlike the FB turnout where the frog extends to the end of the turnout thus requiring insulators for a crossover.) 

You are correct.

[Echo]

Finished all the trimming etc on my station throat pointwork this evening. Here are all the turnouts loosely put together without fishplates.

 

 

I am very impressed with these new turnouts.

 

[faa77]

I wonder if some people actually look at things they criticize.  .................They are brown!  

 

 

You think the below is brown?

 

 

Edited November 14, 2017 by faa77

[faa77]

Well this is a thread about the new Peco bullhead points, so by definition from previous threads, it's largely going to be a fact free zone. In addition to colour of sleepers, you can add profitability, availability and non existent London Exhibitions and that's just the last 24hrs...

 

You have a problem discussing the colour of a product......in a thread where buyers have just obtained the product and posted photos?

Edited November 14, 2017 by faa77

[Mallard60022]

You think the below is brown?

 

 

If you spray paint your points and trackwork prior to fitting you can get a colour that suits you and your layout, so it means bu##er all what colour the plastic is. 

Hal Ford

[Pete the Elaner]

You think the below is brown?

Yes.

A very dark shade or brown, but definitely brown.

[Mallard60022]

You have a problem discussing the colour of a product......in a thread where buyers have just obtained the product and posted photos?

I believe you may have misunderstood PMPs statement. I did at first but then I saw the subtle thinking about how in previous discusions folk got completely distracted by all sorts of daft things. If I'm wrong and PMP is suggesting these points are not good I shall go round to his abode and tell him what for............    

Phil 

[Brian Kirby]

Humm, i thought the whole idea of 'Unifrog' was to avoid the need for insulators. Looking at the turnout the insulator is contained within the 'unifrog' section of the turnout.

(Unlike the FB turnout where the frog extends to the end of the turnout thus requiring insulators for a crossover.) 

You're right, I stand corrected, the "Unifrog" makes the difference, i'm still thinking of continuous frogs and rails in one piece. With this independent frog section, all other rails can be continuously live DCC and the Unifrogs can be switchably live or dead, but for analogue DC you'd still need to insulate the middle of a crossover, as you also would for DCC using live points without independent frogs.   BK 

Edited November 14, 2017 by Brian Kirby

[Pete the Elaner]

Humm, i thought the whole idea of 'Unifrog' was to avoid the need for insulators. Looking at the turnout the insulator is contained within the 'unifrog' section of the turnout.

(Unlike the FB turnout where the frog extends to the end of the turnout thus requiring insulators for a crossover.) 

I agree. I don't see why a DCC user will need insulated rail joiners for a normal point.

This may be different if/when crossings & slips become available but Peco may be working on this.

It was mentioned earlier that you will need them if you want to split the layout into power districts.

[Pete the Elaner]

 Unifrogs can be switchably live or dead, but for analogue DC you'd still need to insulate

I have got into the habit of insulating with DC. It is all very well feeding a siding from a point but you will be relying on a point blade for the whole siding .

Isolating & re-feeding gets around this weak spot.

It also simplifies any troubleshooting. I had to untangle someone's feeding problems recently & it was a massive headache.

It puts the operator in control too because you can creep a loco along a siding without having to set the road for it to leave, then you can isolate with a switch.

[Jeff Smith]

I have moved away from DCC but the only insulators on my On30 layout which had Micro Engineering points with similar switchable frogs, was on the reprogramming siding.