Hills of the North - The Last Great Project

[Clive Mortimore]

On 06/12/2023 at 22:30, LNER4479 said:

(Captain) Fantastic!

 

Not tempted by 45726, then?(!) I might do that one one day just for a bet.

These ladies done a song with the name of 45726 as its title.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MomTbsOeFNU

 

[LNER4479]

Some more from the recent photo bank.

 

Whilst clearing Upperby of stock (for now), we get a first impression of what Upperby yard might look like.

 

The sort of fish train (express goods) heads south, nearing the top of the southbound climb away from Carlisle (under the control of the trusty Duette!)

 

A reminder that this part of the layout crosses over the top of the northbound lines out of Dentonholme.

 

The train arrives at a rather congested Central. However, a route is clear through plat.2. Fixed formation (not to be shunted!) trains do not necessarily need to be berthed in the goods yard at Central ...

 

Round the other side, in the true fiddle yard area, the core of the fish train can be seen in the cassette road, about to be stored out of the way (for now) ... hence the flexibility of running through the station.

 

[LNER4479]

Well, here's to 2024 everyone 🥃

 

At least one person has spotted that there hasn't been a Christmas challenge this year. Well, if you haven't already spotted it, then the Grantham parallel thread reveals that we did a festive season escape to the Swiss Alps this year.

 

However, that doesn't mean that we can't have a NYD challenge instead!

 

So what's going on here, you may well ask? A little explanation is called for.

 

I'm sure there may be longer running loco build projects out there but this one has certainly racked up an impressive(?) total. Many years ago, before virtually every loco type was available RTR and many kits were crude approximations at best, I resolved to scratchbuild a Princess Royal for my Dad's 50th birthday. Flushed with the success of that, I thought I'd do another scratchbuild - a Fairburn 2-6-4T. And here it is, some 36 years later!!!

 

Just to show how long the Carlisle candle has been burning, the choice was based on the fact that (apart from there being no RTR version at the time) they saw use on the famous Bradford-Hawes 'Bonni-face' service through Garsdale. So the loco will still has a purpose all these years later. Apart from acquiring one as a Shap banker, I have held off acquiring the present day RTR version, always intending to finish this build ... one day.

 

As you might be able to see, all the main assemblies are built. The remaining work is to motorise and detail. Realistically, it's not going to be anything like finished today but, on the basis of 'I've started so I'll finish', let's see how much progress we can make at least ...

 

[LNER4479]

Here's some detail to add:

 

The angled brackets, supporting the front running plate. Very noticeable in front end photos. I must have intended to fit them as there's corresponding slots in the frames.

 

And fitted.

 

You might have already spotted what my last hour or so handling the thing closely has confirmed - my standards have possibly improved a tad over the last 35 years ...

 

hmm ...

 

Perhaps we should cut to the chase and just see if we can get the bally thing to 'go' after all these things (and not to overly fret about the details).

 

Firstly, a strip down/ clean up of the chassis is in order I think, as things have become a little tarnished and congealed over the years.

 

And as some have previously doubted (in jest?) the integrity of these little challenges, then I've included a time check above ...

[LNER4479]

Well, might not look like much, but ...

 

Chassis cleaned and reassembled and, with a few tiny tweaks, passes the roll test with coupling rods on 🙂

 

And, half an hour later ...

[LNER4479]

It goes!

 

(sorry it's a bit short. Circa 4 seconds uploaded at 9.8MB so just scraped in under the limit without having to upload to YouTube!)

 

Connecting rods next, methinks ...

Edited January 1 by LNER4479

[lezz01]

I would replace those screw in chassis cross members if I were you mate. They were never a good idea to start with 100% soldered construction is always the best way to go.

Regards Lez.

[LNER4479]

Well, I don't think I'd use them these days, that's for sure. There's plenty of subsequent soldered connections added which more or less renders them obsolete - the rear one will be hidden by the side tanks in any case. The only problem with removing them now would be the holes left behind; I might file them down a bit before painting.

 

Meanwhile:

 

Let's see if we can make use of the remains of this MRJ LMS valve gear fret (last used in anger for last year's Patriot project). Fairburn connecting rods are a bit shorter than 4-6-0s so a bit of cutting and shutting is required.

 

Crosshead / piston rod assemblies already made so a fairly simple job to fit the newly made up conn. rods.

 

And now a first trial fit. All seems to go round OK.

 

Right - time for tea 😉

 

[Michael Edge]

I would solder up the screwed spacers (needs a fair bit if heat), remove the screws and fill the holes.

[St Enodoc]

10 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

 

It goes!

 

(sorry it's a bit short. Circa 4 seconds uploaded at 9.8MB so just scraped in under the limit without having to upload to YouTube!)

 

Connecting rods next, methinks ...

Can't see the video I'm afraid.

[LNER4479]

Well, tried to switch to a bit of detail this evening but it was a bit laboured.

 

This is the boiler unit, being turned into a pin cushion with various pilot holes for the correspondingly various fittings.

 

Now, I wonder if I can find a suitable chimney / dome (etc) in this lot?

 

Trouble is, I couldn't ... really! Spent too long trying to find something suitable. In the end, turned down the chimney supplied in a Jamieson Std 2-6-4T kit I happened to have at hand(!)

 

It all took ages but here's the 'draw stumps' picture, with chimney, dome and top feed in place.

 

As last year, I'll keep plugging away over the coming days and weeks and see if we can't get the bally thing finished at last.

 

'Night ...

[Michael Edge]

Take care with the number for this, these locos had two distinctly different riveting patterns for the tanks.

[Buhar]

15 hours ago, Michael Edge said:

Take care with the number for this, these locos had two distinctly different riveting patterns for the tanks.

IIRC it was those built at Brighton that had a different pattern of rivets.

 

Alan

[LNER4479]

Even though it was some 35 years ago, I do seem to recall that it would be based on a Brighton built example. From what I understand, they were originally allocated to the Southern region but subsequently got transferred to NE Region (displaced by electrification?). The two survivors (42073 & 42085) are both such examples.

 

I have a note somewhere that it was going to be 42093, which was allocated to Manningham from 1957 and hence feasible that it would be used on the Hawes working. I must have based the choice on a photo ... but I can't put my hands on it just at the moment?

 

Meanwhile, the controversial screw heads have been flooded with solder and filed back. Chassis stripped down and cleaned - now drying off in the paint shop ...

 

 

Edited January 3 by LNER4479

[lezz01]

My objection to those screw in cross members isn't about aesthetics. My objection is they aren't the best way to build a square true chassis. Although the screwheads were very ugly, my objection is engineering philosophy based. 

Regards Lez. 

[03060]

 

Photo by Peter Sedge / FG Steinle taken on Manningham shed 31 Oct 1965.

 

http://lostrailwayswestyorkshire.co.uk/images/donations/Marknealebantam@aol.com/Shipley Skipton/shipley23.jpg

 

Edited January 3 by 03060
Extra info added.

[Michael Edge]

4 hours ago, lezz01 said:

My objection to those screw in cross members isn't about aesthetics. My objection is they aren't the best way to build a square true chassis. Although the screwheads were very ugly, my objection is engineering philosophy based. 

Regards Lez. 

Nothing wrong with them from an engineering point of view, many of my own frame etches are designed with screw holes in discreet places for temporary spacers. I bolt up the frames on these while soldering in permanent L shaped ones. There is no point at all in trying to build a plate frame exactly square, it has very little torsional stiffness compared with the boiler you are going to bolt it to - the important part to get square is the loco body using the buffer beams as reference surfaces. All plate frames will flex a bit, even full size ones.

[LNER4479]

10 hours ago, 03060 said:

 

Photo by Peter Sedge / FG Steinle taken on Manningham shed 31 Oct 1965.

 

http://lostrailwayswestyorkshire.co.uk/images/donations/Marknealebantam@aol.com/Shipley Skipton/shipley23.jpg

 

Thanks - that's a great photo for detailing.

 

It's so long ago I can't be certain but I'm trying to convince myself that I saw a photo of the loco actually on the 'Bonniface' working; that's what would have put me on to it as a loco choice in the first place. That's my usual modus operandi when choosing loco identities. But I'm blowed if I can find it just at the moment?

 

I think I'll stick with 42093 as an identity and hope the photo resurfaces!

[Sasquatch]

Here's 42152 climbing out of Bradford Exchange in  colour with a couple of repainted corporate MK1s bringing up the rear. 42152 was a regular engine at Bradford and hauled the last steam passenger service out of the station to Leeds and back. This must be a Leeds service too, as it's on the GNR lines!

Most old photographs I've seen of Fairburns on the L&Y lines have exLMS porthole stock in the rakes,   

 

Have a prosperous and productive New Year Graham.

Regards Shaun.

Edited January 3 by Sasquatch

[LNER4479]

Just remembered - one final batch of photos 'in the can' from the final run before severing the mainline (for now).

 

With the other trains gone, it fell to the 9F to assemble all the remaining wagons in Upperby yard for the run back to Central. A lengthy(?) consist of 28 wagons, although not too taxing for such a mighty loco. 30-35 wagons will be about the maximum for practical purposes. Much more than that and it starts to cause problems in the yards.

 

Gently dropping down the other side of Shap. I have to say that I've hitherto been relatively ambivalent towards 9Fs, magnificent though the originals were. I have to bear in mind that they only first entered traffic after the start of my target era (1953-1959) and the last examples after the end of that. Much more a loco of the '60s. Nonetheless, I've been impressed with the running of this (Bachmann) example, so I think I'll make room for one or two on the roster (subject to finding suitable 1950s pix of them on either the Shap or S&C routes)

 

The train is checked, awaiting entry into Central Goods Yard. In actual fact, the section switching does allow for simultaneous moves like this. The handy Peco sideways-on point motor (alongside the guards van being shunted) has been a recent solution to one of the awkward-to-motorise points in the yard.

 

The 9F now snakes its train into the yard, quite a satisfying manoeuvre.

 

And, illustrating how 'long' 28 wagons actually is for the layout, takes advantage of the continuation of the goods arrival road to get the rear of the train (seen peeping out beyond the overall roof, top centre) clear of the goods yard pointwork. Locos from other arrivals wait their turn to make it back to the loco sidings.

 

All this was a couple of months ago. After a quiet December, work has resumed in the Upperby area. Update soon ...

 

Edited February 15 by LNER4479

[TerryD1471]

Yes, Graham

 

I fully understand your reluctance to have 9Fs on the WCML, since as you rightly say, they were rare birds before 1960. Most freights seemed to be handled by 8Fs, Super Ds or (fast fitteds) Black 5s. I had a similar problem on my layout Hest Bank, so I only have a couple of 9Fs which rarely appear. HOWEVER! In my reference bible "West Coast Steam" there is a picture of 92008 heading north through Hest dated 1954. Enough for me to have an occasional appearance of a 9F.

 

Having said that, I have a number of old Hornby Dublo 8Fs (early ones with half inch motors) which, after scale wheeling and a few other mods, happily haul the longest freights that Hest can handle, about 45-50 wagons, and that's a task which tax the Bachmann or Hornby 9Fs. Not bad for models now more than 60 years of age!

 

It's as much about hefty diecast bodies/chassis as anything.

 

Terry

[LMS29]

RL,

 

There is a picture taken in 1959 of a 9F on S&C line in Bradford and Barton book on Skipton -Carlisle with a goods train with a great mixture of wagons. Let me know if you want more details.

 

Tom

[LNER4479]

Yes, that's 92167, one of the 3 stoker fitted examples. They were initially allocated to Saltley depot (from 1958) for use on the 'famous' through fitted goods service from Washwood Heath to Carlisle via the S&C, a long standing ex-MR institution. That was always Saltley's 'top link' job, the crews lodging at Carlisle. It was Black 5s, prior to that date. I was aware of the use of 9Fs on this service but again, a late 1950s scenario.

 

Otherwise, I've been checking the intial allocation of 9Fs to the LMR, as per the lists in the Xpress Locomotive Register book (quicker than checking each one individually on BR Database). They comment - and it's quite evident from the lists - that the LMR didn't have a pressing need for such a loco (initially at least); their most immediate impact was to see off the LMS Garratts from the MR London coal train workings, with many of the initial allocations to Toton and Wellingborough. No 1950s allocations at all to any WCML depots. So, other than the above, there's little justification for one on my scheme, as I suspected (and as Terry refers to above). We do use them on the 1960s phase of Shap exhibition layout, however.

[Michael Edge]

9Fs weren't very common on the WCML at Wigan in your period, nearly all freights were 8F or 5MT/5XP powered.

[30851]

5 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

Yes, that's 92167, one of the 3 stoker fitted examples. They were initially allocated to Saltley depot (from 1958) for use on the 'famous' through fitted goods service from Washwood Heath to Carlisle via the S&C, a long standing ex-MR institution. That was always Saltley's 'top link' job, the crews lodging at Carlisle. It was Black 5s, prior to that date. I was aware of the use of 9Fs on this service but again, a late 1950s scenario.

 

Otherwise, I've been checking the intial allocation of 9Fs to the LMR, as per the lists in the Xpress Locomotive Register book (quicker than checking each one individually on BR Database). They comment - and it's quite evident from the lists - that the LMR didn't have a pressing need for such a loco (initially at least); their most immediate impact was to see off the LMS Garratts from the MR London coal train workings, with many of the initial allocations to Toton and Wellingborough. No 1950s allocations at all to any WCML depots. So, other than the above, there's little justification for one on my scheme, as I suspected (and as Terry refers to above). We do use them on the 1960s phase of Shap exhibition layout, however.

 

Seems 92023 (a Crosti) and 92050 were allocated (for a month) to Kingmoor in 1955. There were there for tests - no clue what tests though.

 

Edit to add - the RCTS book on the 9F's says 92015-7 and 92161/2 were allocated to Newton Heath in June 58 and used on fitted freights from Manchester to Carlisle via the Settle and Carlisle route.

 

Rob

Edited January 9 by 30851