Bulleid Coaches

[Wickham Green too]

9 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

You should note that one of the first things the newly formed BR did was stop painting '3's on coaches to indicate 3rd class ('1' was retained to indicate first class). Hence the 1948 SK lacks those '3s' as well as lacking the word 'Southern' ...

Check the position of the '1's - they were up by the door handles in Southern livery but lower down later on ..... any coaches retaining them in the Southern position will probably have the original numbers at the eaves with an 'S' prefix added.

[Oldddudders]

11 hours ago, Kirby Uncoupler said:

Since the SK re-numbering has worked for me, I will look forward to the eventual arrival of the other two types, so I can repeat the exercise with a three-coach set. It's usually best to keep coaches within a set the same shade, but overall I welcome a variety of livery shades, which can include weathered stock.    

All the received wisdom supports your view that a set would be one livery throughout at any one time. But the 'interim livery' TK gives a chance of having a train of its era - full malachite, interim and b&c, for a train in say 1949/50-ish. For those of us with layouts designed to split and join portions, this is great news.

[Kirby Uncoupler]

On 06/11/2022 at 21:22, RFS said:

 I took a screen snapshot of the 2nd and 3rd coaches. The 2nd (as was the first already past) seems clearly still in varnished malachite as late as this date. You obviously can't tell the exact colours, but the contrast is remarkable.  

 

 

 

Looking back at this handy 1966 screen grab, from the previous page, I notice this coach in malachite has gained the horizontal strips, which suggests the body has been re-clad. This probably happened in the 1950s, but obviously before the c.1959/60 switch to the darker shade, as seen on the coach behind.   BK

[Mallard60022]

10 minutes ago, Kirby Uncoupler said:

 

Looking back at this handy 1966 screen grab, from the previous page, I notice this coach in malachite has gained the horizontal strips, which suggests the body has been re-clad. This probably happened in the 1950s, but obviously before the c.1959/60 switch to the darker shade, as seen on the coach behind.   BK

Can anyone confirm this 'recladding'?

I always thought the Horizontal and sometimes Vertical Strapping was to deal with failing joins in Panels? However I'd like to know if the whole sides were actually replaced? I did read about it somewhere ages ago, but just can't remember where. Thanks

Phil 

[Wickham Green too]

2 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

All the received wisdom supports your view that a set would be one livery throughout at any one time. ...

... but as we all know wisdom, like any information, can get corrupted before it's received  : take plate 126 in Southern Style for instance - two coaches were shopped a couple of months earlier than the other two so there are significant differences within the set.

Edited November 9, 2022 by Wickham Green too
spilling

[Dunsignalling]

17 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

... but as we all know wisdom, like ant information, can get corrupted before it's received  : take plate 126 in Southern Style for instance - two coaches were shopped a couple of months earlier than the other two so there are significant differences within the set.

The seasonal 3/5 sets in their summer formations were especially prone to the TK's/SK's not matching the rest. Variations in the shade of green are quite common, but photos showing Green / C&C / Green / C&C / Green are not hard to find! 😁

 

I've yet to spot one of a C&C 3-set interspersed with green SK's though.

 

John

Edited November 9, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[Kirby Uncoupler]

19 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

Can anyone confirm this 'recladding'?

I always thought the Horizontal and sometimes Vertical Strapping was to deal with failing joins in Panels? However I'd like to know if the whole sides were actually replaced? I did read about it somewhere ages ago, but just can't remember where. Thanks

Phil 

 

Phil,

The standard reference books mention "re-cladding", and the associated added joining strips, without going into great detail. I doubt it involved the whole side and windows, just the panels below. Either rain water was getting in around the window bottoms, and causing corrosion of the steel panels, or causing the wooden framework to warp? Some were probably worse than others, some were never dealt with.

By the mid-60s, BR was keen to get rid of the Bulleid stock, partly because of the above problems, and also because of their lower crash worthiness, particularly when coupled to the stronger all-welded Mk1s, although as we know, mixing of the types was widespread.  BK

[Dunsignalling]

14 minutes ago, Kirby Uncoupler said:

 

Phil,

The standard reference books mention "re-cladding", and the associated added joining strips, without going into great detail. I doubt it involved the whole side and windows, just the panels below. Either rain water was getting in around the window bottoms, and causing corrosion of the steel panels, or causing the wooden framework to warp? Some were probably worse than others, some were never dealt with.

By the mid-60s, BR was keen to get rid of the Bulleid stock, partly because of the above problems, and also because of their lower crash worthiness, particularly when coupled to the stronger all-welded Mk1s, although as we know, mixing of the types was widespread.  BK

Withdrawal of the Bulleid stock on the Southern Region was rapid when it came, and pretty much complete by the end of 1968.

 

I think some of the coaches sent to Scotland may have lasted a few months longer, though.

 

John

Edited November 9, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[trevor7598]

3 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

Can anyone confirm this 'recladding'?

I always thought the Horizontal and sometimes Vertical Strapping was to deal with failing joins in Panels? However I'd like to know if the whole sides were actually replaced? I did read about it somewhere ages ago, but just can't remember where. Thanks

Phil 

Some Bulleids were completely reclad. A good example is the Bluebell semi open brake 2515.

This vehicle was reclad by BR using galvanised sheeting fitted in a totally different way to as built.

There was no attempt to disguise screw heads or to create a flush, smooth finish.

All panel joins were visible.

[Ian Hargrave]

Have just summoned up the courage to outwit both rheumy fingers and dodgy close vision to fit both sets with Hunt Elite buckeye couplings.A slight but nonetheless perceptible improvement IMHO.I am impressed with the fit and quality of a product new to me . Tribute also to the NEM on the coaches.They withstood my interventions with ease.I shall invest in more of these ..well both couplings and of course coaches.

 

[RFS]

13 minutes ago, Ian Hargrave said:

Have just summoned up the courage to outwit both rheumy fingers and dodgy close vision to fit both sets with Hunt Elite buckeye couplings. A slight but nonetheless perceptible improvement IMHO.I am impressed with the fit and quality of a product new to me . Tribute also to the NEM on the coaches. They withstood my interventions with ease. I shall invest in more of these ..well both couplings and of course coaches.

 

 

I've converted all my stock now to Hunt Elite couplings and am very pleased with the result. I did buy one pack of buckeye couplings for my Bachmann MK1s, but found them to be slightly longer than the close version which resulted in daylight between the coaches. West Hill offered to exchange them as their description was wrong on the length, which I accepted. I've gone with the ultra close version for these Bulleids. 

[Dunsignalling]

I've just fitted my 2-set 'R' with my customary Kadees on the van ends and modified Roco in between. I remove the metal uncoupling loops and use them the other way up to that intended, giving a much neater appearance.

 

Photo attached of a pair fitted within a set of the old-style Bulleids with Keen CCU's and paper replacement gangways, these keep daylight at bay even on curves.

 

I've not bothered with magnetics, because I find the Roco couplers work fine, and their length matches the shortest available magnetics. I still have quite a few as yet unused from my second bag of 50! 

 

Gangways on the new pair are touching with the set at rest but might gap a little on the move if marshalled at the head of a heavy train. That results from the load overcoming the spring that centres the CCU's and controls the working clearance within them. The coupler heads, as with the magnetic type, have zero slack in them when coupled.

 

John

Edited November 9, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[Tim Dubya]

33 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

 

 

Is the right hand coach fitted with SEF Flushglaze?

[Wickham Green too]

... and the other one ?

[Dunsignalling]

54 minutes ago, Tim Dubya said:

 

Is the right hand coach fitted with SEF Flushglaze?

They both are, but the light (from a window on the right, with a white card reflector on the left) is catching each differently.

 

I worked up a set of five twenty-odd years back and refurbished them with new bogies (the originals were quite worn) and a few minor alterations during lockdown. 

 

The glazing is rather a faff to do, because the sizes of the window apertures in the coach bodies aren't consistent. I think that's why there's never been a Lazerglaze set produced for them.

 

I did most of the job during quiet evenings over a couple of cycles of late turns in the box. An hour at a time was quite enough to keep me "amused".

 

At the time, I was active with the Taunton Model Railway Group, and the (then almost new) set can be seen in the photos that accompanied the first article on the Bath Green Park layout in the Railway Modeller for December 2002. 

 

John

Edited November 9, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[Kirby Uncoupler]

2 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:

Have just summoned up the courage to outwit both rheumy fingers and dodgy close vision to fit both sets with Hunt Elite buckeye couplings.A slight but nonetheless perceptible improvement IMHO.I am impressed with the fit and quality of a product new to me . Tribute also to the NEM on the coaches.They withstood my interventions with ease.I shall invest in more of these ..well both couplings and of course coaches.

 

 

I'm impressed with the much neater compensated coupling frames, now part-concealed inside the chassis.   BK

 

[Halvarras]

I found this image a few years back while searching for info and pics on maroon Bulleids - surely it should have been W6715S? Presumably the central toilet denotes a D2406? I think I read somewhere that the WR had 37 such Bulleid brake vehicles at one stage. 

 

[Mallard60022]

25 minutes ago, Halvarras said:

I found this image a few years back while searching for info and pics on maroon Bulleids - surely it should have been W6715S? Presumably the central toilet denotes a D2406? I think I read somewhere that the WR had 37 such Bulleid brake vehicles at one stage. 

 

Absolute certainty is a 2406 and yes I believe it should have been W6715S.

I've never seen this photo so thanks.

Phil

[chris45lsw]

20 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

Absolute certainty is a 2406 and yes I believe it should have been W6715S.

I've never seen this photo so thanks.

Phil

 

20 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

Absolute certainty is a 2406 and yes I believe it should have been W6715S.

I've never seen this photo so thanks.

Phil

Yes, Diagram 2406 No. 6715, which, as has been said, should have been W6715S!  The location is Bere Alston.  

 

Chris KT

[andytrains]

It looks rather smart in Maroon!

[Dunsignalling]

6 minutes ago, andytrains said:

It looks rather smart in Maroon!

The WR clearly recognised that a quantity of what might have been the ultimate vehicles for one-coach branch trains had fallen into their laps on 1st January 1963!

 

John 

[Wickham Green too]

21 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

... what might have been the ultimate vehicles for one-coach branch trains ...

...only lacking air-control equipment ............................................ and decent locos to operate it ! 😊

[Robin Brasher]

Thank you for the picture of a maroon Bulleid coach. I have now received my crimson and cream and BR green coaches and the picture shows 'Weymouth' taking a set of five coaches to Swanage. As I have now got a loft full of model railway items I offered my old crimson and cream Bulleid coaches to Hattons and they offered nearly £8 per coach which seems reasonable.

 

I ordered my coaches from my local model shop to support it instead of from Kernow. I did not receive any notification that they had arrived but I saw them when I visited the shop. I asked them why they had not told me they were in stock and they said it was because I had not ordered them. I went back home to fetch the email confirming my order and returned to the shot with the printout. By then they had put my coaches in a bag and told me that they had found my order. Fortunately there does not seem to be a supply problem with Bachmann unlike the firm from Margate. That is one of the reasons why I tend to order items from one of the big mail order companies rather than supporting my local model shop. 

 

I hope my local model shop has remembered my order for the Bulleid coaches in Southern livery. 

[PeteN92]

I went by the Bachmann stand at Warley this weekend to ask the question when we might expect the Malachite Bulleids back. Apparently it was a common question and although they couldn't say when it, it was good to be reassured that the whole batch have been shipped back to China and will have the running numbers corrected by being tampo printed again (hopefully with the right numbers this time.....)

 

Cheers 

 

Pete

[Oldddudders]

In a smaller shop last week, the owner was bemoaning the fact that he'd got the BR(S) green BTK and BCK to sell - but no intermediate coaches. I had to point out that those two were the complete set, being 2-Set 69, of the series 63-75. He was unaware of the existence of 2-Sets, but had, however, heard of the misadventure with the malachite coaches' numbers.