Bulleid Coaches

[Graham_Muz]

4 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

 

The danger of selling everything individually is made clear by Kernow's need for clearance pricing of the Bulleid 59' brakes. It might be, of course, that they "brought it upon themselves" by disproportionately selling their own supply of CKs to those not also purchasing brakes! .  

 

John

Nonsense I'm afraid.  There  has simply been an oversupply / production of the brake variants. Retailers have been offered quantities of at discounted prices to help shift the stocks. 

Edited March 26, 2023 by Graham_Muz
Spilling

[Right Away]

On 26/03/2023 at 10:39, RFS said:

 ..... So you can still get a set of 3 for around £80.

Exactly what I did.

[PeterStiles]

I tell ya what would be useful

 

If the boxes/basic information for a SR coach include the set number that it was used in. I know sometimes "its complicated" but mostly that would allow someone browsing to think "hey I can buy a set!" instead of "darn now I need to read something complicated to see whether I'm going to embarrass myself buying these coaches together."

 

Admittedly I'd also like "Was in this build/livery between XX and YY" too but as we know how useful that would be to EVERYTHING we know its never going to happen...

 

 

[Butler Henderson]

Its quite common for other products to state what is compatiable or associated so quite why Bachmann, Hornby etc exhibit a head in the sand attitude is odd. It would quite simple to put a panel on the packaging showing how the model in the box should be run with another model or models or even also include the details in the catalogue making it potentially of use rather than a collection of printed graphics easilly found on the web, Equally if they have based the model on a specifically dated photo state that so at least forums are not filled with complaints that a model is wrong until someone unearths the fact is right.

[Pteremy]

It isn't a perfect comparison but does anyone sell the vehicles forming 2 car or 3 car DMU sets individually? I am not aware that they do. So why not sell e.g. the 3 coaches based on a specific 3 car set, and accurately numbered as such, as the relevant 'prototypical' coach set, even if there is also a (prototypical) case for selling the coaches singly? 

[Right Away]

20 hours ago, PeterStiles said:

I tell ya what would be useful

 

If the boxes/basic information for a SR coach include the set number that it was used in. I know sometimes "its complicated" but mostly that would allow someone browsing to think "hey I can buy a set!" instead of "darn now I need to read something complicated to see whether I'm going to embarrass myself buying these coaches together."

 

Admittedly I'd also like "Was in this build/livery between XX and YY" too but as we know how useful that would be to EVERYTHING we know its never going to happen...

 

 

I agree that sort of printed information would be extremely useful when considering a purchase, especially as SR/BR(SR) coaches are now being produced for set compilation in a given era.

 

Meanwhile, BR (SR) coaching stock information can be found on the SREMG website: 

https://sremg.org.uk/home.shtml 

 

and their spreadsheet:  

https://sremg.org.uk/coach/CoachSets.xls 

 

and the excellent Blood & Custard website:

https:// bloodandcustard.com

 

For precise information some cross-referencing would be advised. 

 

 

[BMacdermott]

Hello everyone

 

It's interesting to read whether folk think that stock should be in sets or not and with or without details.

 

Many of us here will be 'experienced modellers' who are aware of such matters but many model buyers simply aren't. To give an example...

 

I was once in a respected model shop where a customer was asking the owner what coaches he might buy to run with his 14xx. Dutifully and with great care, the owner explained the merits of either an Autocoach or a B-set, patiently showing examples of each.

 

Guess what the customer bought...half a B-set!🙂

 

Brian

[Oldddudders]

Once again, the Southern's discipline in keeping vehicles in prescribed sets is simply unfamiliar to modellers of other companies. Yes, there were loose vehicles, but the authority for expenditure for many coaches was literally for a number of sets of x vehicles, which stayed together as one unit until the business case for that set changed. A good example of the latter is the initial Maunsells, built in 1926, sets of which were used on the Brighton main line, and these sets were broken into parts on electrification in 1933. 

 

Ebay regularly has ads by a Yorkshire shop for a 'rake' (their term) of used SR coaches, which are in most cases unrelated in terms of sets into which they were formed, and often includes TKs, CKs and a BCK, the latter not often being used in sets in SR days. Not all dealers meet the high standards of authenticity set by the chap in Brian's example!

[Barry Ten]

6 hours ago, BMacdermott said:

 

 

I was once in a respected model shop where a customer was asking the owner what coaches he might buy to run with his 14xx. Dutifully and with great care, the owner explained the merits of either an Autocoach or a B-set, patiently showing examples of each.

 

Guess what the customer bought...half a B-set!🙂

 

Brian

 

If that was around 1980 it was pronbably me. Pocket mobey wouldn't stretch to a full B-set in one go, so it was buy one coach, then save up for the other one.

 

Except I've still only got half of that particular B-set!

Edited March 28, 2023 by Barry Ten
typos

[brushman47544]

So here is my quandary. I want a 3-car set (BSoT+CK+BSoT) in BR Green. Not fussed if it's 10in or 15in vents. Do I buy another two of the current BSoT (34-726) and hope that Bachmann produces a 10in vents CK in BR green (and renumber the set accordingly) or wait and hope that Bachmann produces a full 3-car set with 15in vents in BR green, as they already have in Carmine and Cream?

 

At current prices the cost of two BSoTs is too high to justify them without the CK.

[Dunsignalling]

6 minutes ago, brushman47544 said:

So here is my quandary. I want a 3-car set (BSoT+CK+BSoT) in BR Green. Not fussed if it's 10in or 15in vents. Do I buy another two of the current BSoT (34-726) and hope that Bachmann produces a 10in vents CK in BR green (and renumber the set accordingly) or wait and hope that Bachmann produces a full 3-car set with 15in vents in BR green, as they already have in Carmine and Cream?

 

At current prices the cost of two BSoTs is too high to justify them without the CK.

Me too, FWIW, I'm waiting...

[PeterStiles]

1 hour ago, brushman47544 said:

or wait and hope

or "Trawl EBay, twitching at the slightest mention of 'Bulleid' or 'CK' or..."

[number6]

If someone has one of these Hornby Bulleid 57ft brakes to hand would it be possible to measure the length of the body in mms and let me know what it is? This price is too good to pass up an opportunity for chopping them up and making into something else.

 

I found that the Worsley Works etched sides I have for some Thanet stock were a bit shorter than the Hornby Maunsells I was planning to use as donors. I'm also wondering how common the underframe is with the Manusells: I can see correct Bulleid battery boxes and vac cylinders, so perhaps its a new moulding. 

 

Had to chop a few mms off the Comet sides to fit the 64ft versions to Southern pride parts. Isn't it always the case?!

 

[Mallard60022]

I knew the Comet sides were a tad too long for the original Bachman Bulleids, but I'm surprised they are too long for the SP Parts. I shall have to do some checking about that as I've got some D2406s to play with.

Phil

[Dunsignalling]

27 minutes ago, number6 said:

If someone has one of these Hornby Bulleid 57ft brakes to hand would it be possible to measure the length of the body in mms and let me know what it is? This price is too good to pass up an opportunity for chopping them up and making into something else.

 

I found that the Worsley Works etched sides I have for some Thanet stock were a bit shorter than the Hornby Maunsells I was planning to use as donors. I'm also wondering how common the underframe is with the Manusells: I can see correct Bulleid battery boxes and vac cylinders, so perhaps its a new moulding. 

 

Had to chop a few mms off the Comet sides to fit the 64ft versions to Southern pride parts. Isn't it always the case?!

 

Hornby's 59' Bulleids have essentially the same underframe as their Maunsells but with some of the fittings relocated.

 

They've basically done the same as the SR did, the prototype underframes having been built pre-WW2, but stored until it was over.

 

IIRC, the underframes of 59' Maunsell and Bulleid coaches were a foot longer than those of the Thanet stock to accommodate the bowed ends.

 

By my reckoning, the sides of the Hornby Bulleids measure 232.5 mm, matching the length over headstocks. The ends, of course, have to go if you plan using them as a basis for Thanets.

 

John

Edited March 28, 2023 by Dunsignalling

[brushman47544]

2 hours ago, PeterStiles said:

or "Trawl EBay, twitching at the slightest mention of 'Bulleid' or 'CK' or..."

Bachmann hasn’t produced the BR green version of the CK yet, so nowt on EBay - I’m not referring to the Hornby multi-door Bulleids…

[number6]

20 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

I knew the Comet sides were a tad too long for the original Bachman Bulleids, but I'm surprised they are too long for the SP Parts. I shall have to do some checking about that as I've got some D2406s to play with.

Phil

Can't find any images from when i did them but it was only a mm or two I feel took the same amount off each end. After that they work really well with the SP parts and builds into a nice robust coach. The thin metal sides suit the Bulleid look - I tend to think these Hornby shorties are let down by the glazing which make the sides look very thick. Those more recent Bachmanns are similarly chunky in my eyes but very nice all the same. 

[number6]

32 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

They've basically done the same as the SR did, the prototype underframes having been built pre-WW2, but stored until it was over.

Looked in Mike King's Southern Coaches book and the Thanets were 56' 11" over headstocks and the later Maunsells and these first Bulleids 57' 11". I had better get the razor saw out and take a foot out the middle.

 

I notice that there is a paragraph that says: "Most of the 59ft brakes were built several months before the companion Composites and had to be stored to await completion of the latter."

Another prototype for everything! 

[Dunsignalling]

1 minute ago, number6 said:

Looked in Mike King's Southern Coaches book and the Thanets were 56' 11" over headstocks and the later Maunsells and these first Bulleids 57' 11". I had better get the razor saw out and take a foot out the middle.

 

I notice that there is a paragraph that says: "Most of the 59ft brakes were built several months before the companion Composites and had to be stored to await completion of the latter."

Another prototype for everything! 

Don't forget that the bogie centres on the Thanet stock were a foot greater than on the 59' Maunsell and Bulleid coaches, though!

[Phatbob]

19 hours ago, PeterStiles said:

or "Trawl EBay, twitching at the slightest mention of 'Bulleid' or 'CK' or..."

When trawling eBay, or anywhere else on the interweb, for 'Bulleid', don't forget to also search for 'Bullied'.  People are so used to the "i before e, except after c" thing that it is very often misspelled.
Sciene has proved that it's "i befor e except after c and your weird beige foreign neighbour, Keith Bulleid." ;-)

 

[Nick C]

1 hour ago, Phatbob said:

When trawling eBay, or anywhere else on the interweb, for 'Bulleid', don't forget to also search for 'Bullied'.  People are so used to the "i before e, except after c" thing that it is very often misspelled.
Sciene has proved that it's "i befor e except after c and your weird beige foreign neighbour, Keith Bulleid." ;-)

 

or their spellchecker has autocorrected it for them...

[PeterStiles]

11 minutes ago, Nick C said:

spellchecker has autocorrecte

I suspect, were OVSB alive today he'd have changed his name by deed poll so that he didn't need to keep re-correcting the autocorrect...

[RFS]

2 hours ago, Phatbob said:

Sciene has proved that it's "i before e except after c and your weird beige foreign neighbour, Keith Bulleid." ;-)

 

 

Not to mention weird beige foreign or neighbour ...🙂

[Oldddudders]

3 hours ago, Phatbob said:

When trawling eBay, or anywhere else on the interweb, for 'Bulleid', don't forget to also search for 'Bullied'.  

At skool, there was a girl a couple of years older than me whose surname was Bulled. Until we saw it written down we wondered about a family connection - not least because skool was not much more than a mile from the Deepdene Hotel, where OVSB would certainly have been a visitor during and possibly after the war. 

 

https://dorkingmuseum.org.uk/local-history/great-estates/the-deepdene/

 

 

[45655]

1 hour ago, Oldddudders said:

At skool, there was a girl a couple of years older than me whose surname was Bulled. Until we saw it written down we wondered about a family connection - not least because skool was not much more than a mile from the Deepdene Hotel, where OVSB would certainly have been a visitor during and possibly after the war. 

 

https://dorkingmuseum.org.uk/local-history/great-estates/the-deepdene/

 

 

Bulleid lived at Boxhurst on the slopes of Box Hill. I believe it was at his suggestion that the Deepdene Hotel became the SR Wartime headquarters.

 

Keith (“i” before “e” except after “c” and “k”)

Alton.