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HST retirements and secondary deployments.


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Shameless brag but hey-

 

I had the pleasure of taking 43177, 41012 and 43176 from Plymouth to Bristol last Wednesday as they left the franchise, 4500hp and 174 tonnes, great fun!

 

Got stopped a few times so 'needed' to use the acceleration to make up the lost time, honest, not for any other reason at all!  :angel:  

Edited by royaloak
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Looks like the off lease buffets will be en route from Laira to Landore on Wednesday with the power cars coming back on Thursday, shame really as most of them are in very good condition having never been used in service since repaint, I am sure the local Swansea residents will 'amend' the livery accordingly.

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Shameless brag but hey-

 

I had the pleasure of taking 43177, 41012 and 43176 from Plymouth to Bristol last Wednesday as they left the franchise, 4500hp and 174 tonnes, great fun!

 

Got stopped a few times so 'needed' to use the acceleration to make up the lost time, honest, not for any other reason at all! :angel:

Must have gone like the proverbial "... off a shovel"!

 

The ScotRail sets seem to be able to regain time a bit as well. One service was 9 down at Leuchars and 1 EARLY by Haymarket!

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Another update - the diagrams for the December timetable change. 10 sets booked for service it seems:

 

ScotRail HST set diagrams: Valid from 10th December until 19th May

 

Diagram 1

0530 Edinburgh - Aberdeen

0904 Aberdeen - Edinburgh

1230 Edinburgh - Aberdeen

1538 Aberdeen - Glasgow Queen St

1840 Glasgow Queen St - Aberdeen

2156 Aberdeen - Inverness

 

Diagram 2

0554 Inverness - Aberdeen

0851 Aberdeen - Glasgow Queen St

1139 Glasgow Queen St - Aberdeen

1442 Aberdeen - Glasgow Queen St

1741 Glasgow Queen St - Aberdeen

2107 Aberdeen - Edinburgh

 

Diagram 3

0730 Edinburgh - Aberdeen

1102 Aberdeen - Edinburgh

1530 Edinburgh - Aberdeen

1916 Aberdeen - Edinburgh

 

Diagram 4

0833 Edinburgh - Inverness

1255 Inverness - Edinburgh

1739 Edinburgh- Inverness

 

Diagram 5

0453 Inverness - Edinburgh

1130 Edinburgh - Aberdeen

1600 Aberdeen - Edinburgh

1934 Edinburgh - Aberdeen

 

Diagram 6

0614 Aberdeen - Inverness

0944 Inverness - Edinburgh

1336 Edinburgh - Inverness

1728 Inverness - Glasgow Queen St

2112 Glasgow Queen St - Perth ECS

 

Diagram 7

0647 Perth - Glasgow Queen St ECS

0838 Glasgow Queen St - Aberdeen

1247 Aberdeen - Glasgow Queen St

1539 Glasgow Queen St - Aberdeen

1837 Aberdeen - Glasgow Queen St

2140 Glasgow Queen St - Aberdeen

 

Diagram 8

0548 Aberdeen - Edinburgh

0929 Edinburgh - Aberdeen

1312 Aberdeen - Edinburgh

1627 Edinburgh - Aberdeen

2009 Aberdeen - Edinburgh

 

Diagram 9

0553 Glasgow Queen St - Aberdeen

0942 Aberdeen - Glasgow Queen St

1237 Glasgow Queen St - Aberdeen

1630 Aberdeen - Glasgow Queen St

1940 Glasgow Queen St - Aberdeen

 

Diagram 10

0640 Aberdeen - Glasgow Queen St

0939 Glasgow Queen St - Aberdeen

1357 Aberdeen - Edinburgh

1736 Edinburgh - Aberdeen

2044 Aberdeen - Glasgow Queen St

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Looks like the off lease buffets will be en route from Laira to Landore on Wednesday with the power cars coming back on Thursday, shame really as most of them are in very good condition having never been used in service since repaint, I am sure the local Swansea residents will 'amend' the livery accordingly.

 

 

It looks like there is another move planned for tomorrow, So potentially further Buffet Car movements? Oddly last weeks move saw most of the First Group owned 409XX TRFBs heading off lease first - I'd have thought they would have kept those running for longer than the leased ones. 

 

Having travelled on a HST to Devon and IET back last weekend the Buffet Cars will be sorely missed, especially when there's no competition between a much larger buffet vs a Hitachi owned poorly stocked trolley with barely anything on it! 

Edited by surfsup
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They are not plug doors because plug doors were not specified.

 

General clarification comment-

 

They are fitted with sliding doors because sliding doors were specified from day one, at no stage were they going to be fitted with plug doors, why does everyone assume (incorrectly) that these are being fitted with plug doors when that was never, ever the intention!

 

 

does anyone not understand what type of doors are being fitted to these coaches?

The answer is sliding doors, you know the ones which slide into a recess in the bodyside, unlike plug doors which these coaches are not being fitted with which swing out and run outside the bodyside!

 

 

And repeat this post every couple of pages because we will be back to them being fitted with plug doors when they arent!

 

Does that clarify things!  :read:    :yes:

 

And breath.  :laugh:

 

So..............they are not getting plug doors?  :laugh:

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The mini-HST diagrams are remininscent of the 'Indian Summer' of the Gresley A4s on the Glasgow Buchanan St - Aberdeen expresses in the mid-1960s. To be hoped they last longer.

 

Are the Edinburgh-Inverness and return diagrams via Perth or Aberdeen?

 

Dava

 

 

Another update - the diagrams for the December timetable change. 10 sets booked for service it seems:

ScotRail HST set diagrams: Valid from 10th December until 19th May

Diagram 1
0530 Edinburgh - Aberdeen
0904 Aberdeen - Edinburgh
1230 Edinburgh - Aberdeen
1538 Aberdeen - Glasgow Queen St
1840 Glasgow Queen St - Aberdeen
2156 Aberdeen - Inverness

Diagram 2
0554 Inverness - Aberdeen
0851 Aberdeen - Glasgow Queen St
1139 Glasgow Queen St - Aberdeen
1442 Aberdeen - Glasgow Queen St
1741 Glasgow Queen St - Aberdeen
2107 Aberdeen - Edinburgh

Diagram 3
0730 Edinburgh - Aberdeen
1102 Aberdeen - Edinburgh
1530 Edinburgh - Aberdeen
1916 Aberdeen - Edinburgh

Diagram 4
0833 Edinburgh - Inverness
1255 Inverness - Edinburgh
1739 Edinburgh- Inverness

Diagram 5
0453 Inverness - Edinburgh
1130 Edinburgh - Aberdeen
1600 Aberdeen - Edinburgh
1934 Edinburgh - Aberdeen

Diagram 6
0614 Aberdeen - Inverness
0944 Inverness - Edinburgh
1336 Edinburgh - Inverness
1728 Inverness - Glasgow Queen St
2112 Glasgow Queen St - Perth ECS

Diagram 7
0647 Perth - Glasgow Queen St ECS
0838 Glasgow Queen St - Aberdeen
1247 Aberdeen - Glasgow Queen St
1539 Glasgow Queen St - Aberdeen
1837 Aberdeen - Glasgow Queen St
2140 Glasgow Queen St - Aberdeen

Diagram 8
0548 Aberdeen - Edinburgh
0929 Edinburgh - Aberdeen
1312 Aberdeen - Edinburgh
1627 Edinburgh - Aberdeen
2009 Aberdeen - Edinburgh

Diagram 9
0553 Glasgow Queen St - Aberdeen
0942 Aberdeen - Glasgow Queen St
1237 Glasgow Queen St - Aberdeen
1630 Aberdeen - Glasgow Queen St
1940 Glasgow Queen St - Aberdeen

Diagram 10
0640 Aberdeen - Glasgow Queen St
0939 Glasgow Queen St - Aberdeen
1357 Aberdeen - Edinburgh
1736 Edinburgh - Aberdeen
2044 Aberdeen - Glasgow Queen St

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The mini-HST diagrams are remininscent of the 'Indian Summer' of the Gresley A4s on the Glasgow Buchanan St - Aberdeen expresses in the mid-1960s. To be hoped they last longer.

 

Are the Edinburgh-Inverness and return diagrams via Perth or Aberdeen?

 

Dava

They are indeed - featherweight loads, accelerated timings. History has a funny way of repeating itself like that sometimes!

 

All Edinburgh/Inverness are via Aviemore and Perth except the 0453 Inverness-Edinburgh which is via Aberdeen. I believe that they were specified in the franchise agreement as lasting 10-12 years. So about 2030.

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Was in Blair Atholl today at about 1300 when a 2 + 4 was heading north presumably on a training run. Too far away to ascertain what loco numbers were but I could clearly hear the set had a flat on one of its wheelsets.

Not too surprising, while the interiors have been refurbished and sliding doors/retention tanks fitted, nothing was done to the traction electronics or WSP. While some sets with other operators have a modern Knorr-Bremse WSP which is pretty good, the GWR trailers all have either the original Girling or BR-type. I believe the latter is particularly poorer at effectively controlling wheel lock-up with heavier brake applications at speed.

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Passing Haymarket yesterday on the tram, there seemed to be two HST sets in the yard.  Each had a power car in "seven cities" livery, but both were attached to purple/swooshy lined (ex FGW?) coaching stock.  I couldn't see the other end of either train, so I don't know if either one had the second power car attached.  Didn't get the numbers of the two power cars I saw, unfortunately.

 

Would I be right to assume that these are being used for more driver training, and awaiting refurbed coaches?  I assume that the HST services running now are using a fully refurbed and Scotrail-liveried set (or is there more than one set in service now?)

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Passing Haymarket yesterday on the tram, there seemed to be two HST sets in the yard. Each had a power car in "seven cities" livery, but both were attached to purple/swooshy lined (ex FGW?) coaching stock. I couldn't see the other end of either train, so I don't know if either one had the second power car attached. Didn't get the numbers of the two power cars I saw, unfortunately.

 

Would I be right to assume that these are being used for more driver training, and awaiting refurbed coaches? I assume that the HST services running now are using a fully refurbed and Scotrail-liveried set (or is there more than one set in service now?)

There is only one set in service, fully refurbished, which presently works the diagram outlined at the top of this page.

 

ScotRail will not be introducing any further sets into service until the December timetable change. At that point they will need a minimum of 10 of their eventual 26 sets (the rest will be introduced in May). Due to delays with the refurbishment programme, some of the sets entering service in December will not be refurbished - staff are being trained on slam-doors just now.

Edited by hexagon789
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staff are being trained on slam-doors just now.

 

Is that what the sets I saw at Haymarket with the ex-FGW coaches are being used for, or is there still driver training going on too?

 

Will the slam-door stock be re-liveried before going in to service?  Or will they not bother since it'll be going for refurb sooner or later anyway, and its place taken by fully refurbed and reliveried stock?

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Is that what the sets I saw at Haymarket with the ex-FGW coaches are being used for, or is there still driver training going on too?

 

Will the slam-door stock be re-liveried before going in to service? Or will they not bother since it'll be going for refurb sooner or later anyway, and its place taken by fully refurbed and reliveried stock?

Probably still driver training going on, though I think all the drivers passed on Edinburgh-Aberdeen are now trained on them.

 

Not sure whether they'll bother to repaint tbh, I'm not 100% on whether the vehicles for the unrefurbished sets will actually become part of the refurbished sets, they were obtained later and separately from otherwise off-lease stock and so are effectively surplus.

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Will be going across to Queen St in Feb after Model Rail Scotland to see if any of these units are about ,can someone please tell me what are buildings and statues on the new livery,I can see the Wallace Memorial but not sure of others?

Sadly not the Bon Scott memorial sort-of nearish to Dundee (ok, it's miles away). Though maybe commemorating AC/DC on a diesel train would be a bit ironic.
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Will be going across to Queen St in Feb after Model Rail Scotland to see if any of these units are about ,can someone please tell me what are buildings and statues on the new livery,I can see the Wallace Memorial but not sure of others?

 

I believe that there are different cities represented on each side of the power car.  On one side are (reading left to right):

  • Edinburgh represented by Edinburgh Castle (specifically I think St Margaret's Chapel and the small cupola'ed turret from near which the One O'Clock Gun is fired), and the Royal Scots Greys monument in Princes Street Gardens;
  • Stirling represented by the Wallace Monument;
  • Glasgow represented by the Finnieston Crane and the Squinty Bridge.

I presume the landmarks on the other side represent the other four cities: Perth, Dundee, Aberdeen and Invernes.  I'm afraid I'm not familiar enough with those cities to identify any of them.  (Full disclosure: I've never been to Dundee or Aberdeen.  I've never really noticed anything during my rare visits to Perth that I would regard as being a landmark, and although I've been to Inverness twice it was only to collect and drop off someone at the station so I was concentrating on driving most of the time!)

 

EDIT

 

From what I can gather, the landmarks on the other side of the power car are (reading right to left):

  • Inverness represented by Inverness Castle and the statue of Flora MacDonald (should probably have recognised those from the final episode of The Biggest Little Railway in the World);
  • Dundee represented by the war memorial at the top of Dundee Law;
  • Aberdeen represented by the statue of William Wallace* in Union Terrace Gardens;
  • Perth represented by the view south-west along the River Tay from Smeaton's Bridge, with the spire of St Matthew's Church on Tay Street to the right of Queen's Bridge.

END OF EDIT

 

The coaches have various landmarks on them as well, including the Forth Bridge and the Falkirk Wheel.

 

Sad that neither Abellio ScotRail nor the design company involved seem to have been particularly motivated to satisfy interested people's curiosity.

 

* So William Wallace gets in twice, and Walter Scott not at all despite there being monuments to him in Edinburgh, Glasgow and Perth (and quite possibly some of the other four cities as well).  To say nothing of Rabbie Burns, William Henry Playfair, James Watt, Thomas Telford etc etc.  So five out of seven of Scotland's cities get represented by a nationalist military leader (twice), a castle (two different ones), a war memorial, a military regiment and a member of the post-Culloden Jacobite resistance.  References to the country's artistic, engineering or scientific culture and history are vastly outnumbered by its military history.  Boo.

Edited by ejstubbs
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