HST retirements and secondary deployments.

[ejstubbs]

Today's trainspotting* while passing Haymarket on the tram included a train consisting of:

• 43136 in Scotrail blue at one end
• A number (forgot to count them) of MkIII coaches in GWR green but no branding and clearly slam-door fitted
• 43026 in Seven Cities livery at the other end

Quite surprised to see such a mix of liveries, especially with the Seven Cities liveried power car on one end.

 

* I feel justified in calling it that because I actually wrote down the numbers of the power cars.  Must be more than forty years since I last did that!

[hexagon789]

Today's trainspotting* while passing Haymarket on the tram included a train consisting of:

• 43136 in Scotrail blue at one end
• A number (forgot to count them) of MkIII coaches in GWR green but no branding and clearly slam-door fitted
• 43026 in Seven Cities livery at the other end

Quite surprised to see such a mix of liveries, especially with the Seven Cities liveried power car on one end.

 

* I feel justified in calling it that because I actually wrote down the numbers of the power cars. Must be more than forty years since I last did that!

The mix of liveries is because there won't be anything near enough refurbished sets in service by Sunday, so they are going to use mostly unrefurbished sets. Indeed it's likely there won't even be enough sets full stop by Sunday.

 

10 are needed for the December timetable, the second refurnished set has only just been finished but hasn't moved yet. There is one unrefurbished set available that I only of (it replaced the refurbished set in service not long ago).

 

Supposedly by the December 2019 timetable there will be 26 refurbished sets in service, I'm not holding my breath.

[hexagon789]

Good news. A sufficient complement of HSTs will be available to operate the planned service.

 

From tomorrow 11 sets (10 "Classic" and 1 refurbished) will be ready for passenger service. Much better than I had expected the way things were going.

[caradoc]

Excellent news hexagon789, I think a trip to Queen St tomorrow to have a look is on the cards ! Not entirely relevant but another change promised with Scotrail's new timetable was increased capacity on the Neilston line, and sure enough I saw 4-car 380111 at Neilston this morning.

[black and decker boy]

Posted elsewhere is an ECS run of 4 Scotrail 156s to Northern plus a fifth going straight to works for refurbishment before heading south.

This transfer is a result of the HSTs (and more 385s) coming on stream

[ejstubbs]

The mix of liveries is because there won't be anything near enough refurbished sets in service by Sunday, so they are going to use mostly unrefurbished sets.

 

I was aware that they would be running trains in different liveries.  I was a little surprised that they seemed to have formed a train with mixed liveries within it.  Assuming there are only two "Seven Cities" liveried power cars (although I don't know whether this is actually the case) then it looks like they will end up with at least two mixed-livery trains, which would seem rather to dilute the impact they presumably intended the new livery to have.

Edited December 9, 2018 by ejstubbs

[surfsup]

Posted elsewhere is an ECS run of 4 Scotrail 156s to Northern plus a fifth going straight to works for refurbishment before heading south.

This transfer is a result of the HSTs (and more 385s) coming on stream

 

 

Off topic for this thread as it's HST related, but 156447,156485,156465 were on transfer from ScotRail to Northern today until they were stopped in the Carluke area with the fire bottles going off on 485. They have since returned to the Glasgow area and are currently in Mossend. 449 went straight to Kilmarnock to be "Northern-ised" there. 

 

Returning back to the HSTs though, The FGWR HSTs have started to have their coach lettering changed from today. This is to match the IETs a little bit more, as there has been issues with the seat reservation system turning out reservations for IET coaches (which don't exist on the HSTs). As a result, E&F are now H&J. 

 

Also resulting from this weekend is another reduction in HST diagrams on the Great Western - Sadly now down to 13. So if you want to see them, get them while you can. 1 set is currently temporarily in store in Worcester at the moment as depot space is becoming limited with the closures of OOC & Landore.  

[hexagon789]

Excellent news hexagon789, I think a trip to Queen St tomorrow to have a look is on the cards ! Not entirely relevant but another change promised with Scotrail's new timetable was increased capacity on the Neilston line, and sure enough I saw 4-car 380111 at Neilston this morning.

Indeed it is, things were looking a bit iffy at more than one stage but thankfully there are enough HST sets in service to met the number diagrammed. However on Sunday, 6 diagrams were substituted by 170s, today seems to have gone much better though.

 

Sonewhat off-topic, but from Sunday there are fewer 314 diagrams. To put it in perspective there were 62 Inverclyde services booked for 314s, now only 29. At least one Neilston and one Cathcart Circle diagram are now 4-car 380s. 3 units are withdrawn 204, 212, 213.

[hexagon789]

I was aware that they would be running trains in different liveries. I was a little surprised that they seemed to have formed a train with mixed liveries within it. Assuming there are only two "Seven Cities" liveried power cars (although I don't know whether this is actually the case) then it looks like they will end up with at least two mixed-livery trains, which would seem rather to dilute the impact they presumably intended the new livery to have.

There are sufficient Inter7City liveried power cars that every set in service can have at least one. Presently the unrefurbished sets are running with an I7C power car at the south end as far as I am aware.

 

Of course that arrangement could change if power cars need swapped out for maintenance etc.

Edited December 10, 2018 by hexagon789

[nightstar.train]

Does anyone know what is happening to the MML HSTs? There’s only 384 days until the PRM deadline, so no chance of getting the sets compliant in time. Are they going for a Mk4 with HST power cars solution? That could be in serious trouble due to late introduction of Azumas on the ECML. I could hardly see the government being okay with giving them a derogation for 2 - 4(?) years until new units are introduced.

['CHARD]

Does anyone know what is happening to the MML HSTs? There’s only 384 days until the PRM deadline, so no chance of getting the sets compliant in time. Are they going for a Mk4 with HST power cars solution? That could be in serious trouble due to late introduction of Azumas on the ECML. I could hardly see the government being okay with giving them a derogation for 2 - 4(?) years until new units are introduced.

 

Good point, but it will be very disingenuous of DfT to punish the TOCs and not show some forbearance when at source, all these problems point back to themselves:

• IEP is a DfT procurement, so late receipt of 800s isn't LNER's problem
• MML franchise delay and hiatus is subject to the DfT's own franchising programme so next franchisee's hands are tied

[DRS Crewe On A Mission]

For anyone interested I was in Leeds station yesterday and I saw ex ScotRail now Northern 170456 and 170457. 

 

Then later on in the morning I saw 170454 depart Horsforth for Leeds. These three having come from Scotland to Neville Hill for use with Northern in the past couple of weeks along with 170455 although I didn't see this yesterday so this may not be in service with Northern as yet. 

 

I also saw 170478 in Leeds station yesterday afternoon wearing the new Northern livery and fully refurbished waiting to depart on a Huddersfield bound service. Of note this is the first time I have seen a 170 for Northern working to Huddersfield. 

 

Not directly related to HSTs either GWR or ScotRail but due to the ScotRail HSTs been deployed in Scotland the cascading has meant that Northern have gained additional units. 

 

I hope this is of use. 

['CHARD]

For anyone interested I was in Leeds station yesterday and I saw ex ScotRail now Northern 170456 and 170457. 

 

Then later on in the morning I saw 170454 depart Horsforth for Leeds. These three having come from Scotland to Neville Hill for use with Northern in the past couple of weeks along with 170455 although I didn't see this yesterday so this may not be in service with Northern as yet. 

 

I also saw 170478 in Leeds station yesterday afternoon wearing the new Northern livery and fully refurbished waiting to depart on a Huddersfield bound service. Of note this is the first time I have seen a 170 for Northern working to Huddersfield. 

 

 

I hope this is of use. 

 

Yes, it is in my case!  

 

I have 454 - 57 and 474 - 78 down as having transferred, with 453/ 8-61/ 72/ 3 to follow.

[Bon Accord]

Am currently sat in the FO of an ex FGW (i.e. not yet Scotrail-ised) HST short set on my way to Aberdeen and the difference between this and the usual 170 is so positive to be almost at a point beyond comparison. From the audible comments of fellow punters I am far from alone in that view.

The only annoying thing is the near childlike announcements made after before every stop about how to use the doors. Not only that, but ScotRail have obviously invoked a procedure whereby after every station stop the Guard walks through the train to ensure all the droplights are closed. How do they think every other HST operator in the country manages?

It should not be forgotten that the Aberdeen/Inverness routes see East Coast HSTs on a daily basis.

Edited December 12, 2018 by Bon Accord

[Coryton]

Am currently sat in the FO of an ex FGW (i.e. not yet Scotrail-ised) HST short set on my way to Aberdeen and the difference between this and the usual 170 is so positive to be almost at a point beyond comparison. From the audible comments of fellow punters I am far from alone in that view.

The only annoying thing is the near childlike announcements made after before every stop about how to use the doors. Not only that, but ScotRail have obviously invoked a procedure whereby after every station stop the Guard walks through the train to ensure all the droplights are closed. How do they think every other HST operator in the country manages?

It should not be forgotten that the Aberdeen/Inverness routes see East Coast HSTs on a daily basis.

 

Wow, I presume they check the droplights after the train has left?

 

I can see the idea behind the announcements though, annoying as they must be.

 

A few years ago I saw some young people miss their stop on an Edinburgh to Aberdeen HST because they were waiting for the door to open itself.

[Bon Accord]

Wow, I presume they check the droplights after the train has left?

 

I can see the idea behind the announcements though, annoying as they must be.

 

A few years ago I saw some young people miss their stop on an Edinburgh to Aberdeen HST because they were waiting for the door to open itself.

 

Correct. I regularly use LNER/East Coast/Virgin/whatever it's called this week and to be quite honest door brainfarts are really quite rare.

No doubt someone in the HSQE dept has decided otherwise.

[Coryton]

Correct. I regularly use LNER/East Coast/Virgin/whatever it's called this week and to be quite honest door brainfarts are really quite rare.

No doubt someone in the HSQE dept has decided otherwise.

 

Well I think in the case I came across I suspect the passengers had never come across a hinged train door before.

[nightstar.train]

Well I think in the case I came across I suspect the passengers had never come across a hinged train door before.

It’s entirely possible if you grew up in most of the country. Apart from the West the vast majority of stock everywhere is power doors.

[Coryton]

It’s entirely possible if you grew up in most of the country. Apart from the West the vast majority of stock everywhere is power doors.

 

And, come to think of it, if like many people you rarely travel by train.

 

For the uninitiated, pressing an illuminated button to open a door is a bit more intuitive than pulling down a window and reaching for a handle on the outside of a train.

[Coryton]

 

Good point, but it will be very disingenuous of DfT to punish the TOCs and not show some forbearance when at source, all these problems point back to themselves:

 

One might argue that they have shown in the last few years that they are extremely good at being disingenuous.

[nightstar.train]

One might argue that they have shown in the last few years that they are extremely good at being disingenuous.

Oh yes. I’d entirely expect the DfT to blame a TOC for their (the DfTs) problem. And it’s quite easy as to the public the TOC is in charge. They don’t necessarily know or care about the franchise arrangements.

[westie7]

There was a whole bunch of folk this morning, who in spite of having a "how to" card in front of them, didn't have a scooby,

and crew are doing a latch check not windows

Edited December 12, 2018 by westie7

[HullCityB17]

Hull Trains are apparently to get 2x Short HST sets to cover the Adelantes. 1 Duty and 1 Standby, to last until the 802s are on the scene.

Well the Adelantes are still breaking down and Hull Trains are keep having to cancel services fairly regularly.

We are in December and I have not seen any HST Sets on test yet so whether it is just between London and Doncaster like when 86101 was hired in or whether it will work the full service is yet to be seen.

I might get to see this Tuesday when I head to London for the day if HT was one before Xmas.

[royaloak]

The HST hire in is dead in the water, problems getting the train fuelled and serviced overnight.

['CHARD]

The HST hire in is dead in the water, problems getting the train fuelled and serviced overnight.

 

I'm guessing that Botanic Gardens is not appropriate (nor are Paragon CS), and Bounds Green can't accommodate either?