tmc Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 Many thanks for your help guys it's much appreciated. So just to confirm:- 2EPB Set 6301 Circa 1984 DMBSO no.14577 & DTSO no.16121 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmc Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 P.S. The Bachmann model we are using is 31-377. Does anybody know if the numbers would have S prefixes? i.e S14577S ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted October 22, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 22, 2013 Hi tmc. I've got 6301 down as being a Southern / Bulleid design unit. Re-numbered from 5761, face-lifted and made up of DMBSO no.14577 & DTSO no.16121. Important! 6301, ex 5671, was a Bulleid-design unit, quite different in appearance from the Bachmann model. TMC you are earnestly recommended not to use those numbers! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frobisher Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 P.S. The Bachmann model we are using is 31-377. Does anybody know if the numbers would have S prefixes? i.e S14577S ? Nope. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptic Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 P.S. The Bachmann model we are using is 31-377. Does anybody know if the numbers would have S prefixes? i.e S14577S ? Tmc,... The Bachmann 31-377, or any other version, in the same range, is modelled on the BR Std. Mk.1 U/F with a body length of 63'-11 1/2". 2-EPB Refurbished Unit, No. 6301 was made up of BR(S). Bulleid design cars, which had an SR U/F, with a body length of 62'-6", different cross-section profile, different front end, and different size door / compartment windows, to mention but a few. I, kindly, suggest you check your references, and, possibly post a photo of the subject, or a link to. Regards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted October 22, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 22, 2013 A description of both types, and a picture of the SR-design here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_416 The SR-design were built on reclaimed 2-NOL underframes and originally classified 2-NOP. However they were later designated 2-EPB and finally 416/1, with the BR standard 2-EPBs becoming 416/2. The SR ones were facelifted and became 416/3 being numbered from 6301 onwards, and it's one of those in the picture. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmc Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Golly gosh I wasn't aware of all these differences. To be honest I'm only just starting to learn about 2EPB's it's not something that we do very much with. Ok well I'll discuss this with my customer as he's sent us his 31-377 model to have the numbers altered to set 6301. Either he isn't aware of the technical differences or he isn't bothered about it being accurate. I'll find out anyway Thanks for all your input Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptic Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Golly gosh I wasn't aware of all these differences. To be honest I'm only just starting to learn about 2EPB's it's not something that we do very much with. Ok well I'll discuss this with my customer as he's sent us his 31-377 model to have the numbers altered to set 6301. Either he isn't aware of the technical differences or he isn't bothered about it being accurate. I'll find out anyway Thanks for all your input Southern / BR(S) Emus... Take a step in there and you're stepping into a minefield..... Just ask Colin Parks, of 'Scratch & Kit building' fame Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmc Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 May have found an alternative. Set number 6254. I believe this was a non-Bulleid 2 EPB on the Tattenham Corner Branch. Perhaps the Bachmann model could be changed to that? Again though I have no car numbers if anybody could help? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve1023 Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 May have found an alternative. Set number 6254. I believe this was a non-Bulleid 2 EPB on the Tattenham Corner Branch. Perhaps the Bachmann model could be changed to that? Again though I have no car numbers if anybody could help? tmc - This all depends on how much accuracy your customer wants. Model 31-377 is modelled on the units later years operating the Kent coast suburban services from Victoria, Charing Cross & Cannon Street (note model supplied with NSE sector markings and Kent Link brandings). The unit as supplied by Bachmann was allocated to Slade Green and wouldn't have normally been seen on the Tattenham Corner Branch - These services were operated by Selhurst allocated class 455 or the previously mentioned Bullied EPBs. Please also note unit 6254 was one of the facelifted units which was renumbered 6414 I believe before NSE added the route logos and red stripe as modelled by Bachmann so TBH if your customer isn't bothered about accuracy go right ahead, but if they want accuracy I don't think 6254 would be a good choice. For the record 5754 (as numbered originally)/6254/6414 was formed as DMBSO 65368 & DTSO 77553. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted December 2, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 2, 2013 May have found an alternative. Set number 6254. I believe this was a non-Bulleid 2 EPB on the Tattenham Corner Branch. Perhaps the Bachmann model could be changed to that? Again though I have no car numbers if anybody could help? tmc - This all depends on how much accuracy your customer wants. Model 31-377 is modelled on the units later years operating the Kent coast suburban services from Victoria, Charing Cross & Cannon Street (note model supplied with NSE sector markings and Kent Link brandings). The unit as supplied by Bachmann was allocated to Slade Green and wouldn't have normally been seen on the Tattenham Corner Branch - These services were operated by Selhurst allocated class 455 or the previously mentioned Bullied EPBs. Please also note unit 6254 was one of the facelifted units which was renumbered 6414 I believe before NSE added the route logos and red stripe as modelled by Bachmann so TBH if your customer isn't bothered about accuracy go right ahead, but if they want accuracy I don't think 6254 would be a good choice. For the record 5754 (as numbered originally)/6254/6414 was formed as DMBSO 65368 & DTSO 77553. Steve Weren't there two BR 2-EPBs in all blue allocated to the Central Division (Selhurst) when all the rest were at Slade Green. Not sure what services they worked as I never saw them on my local trains to Sutton/Epsom/Dorking. Perhaps Sanderstead - Elmers End? IIRC the units were 5752, plus either 5751 or 5753 (can't recall which). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Weren't there two BR 2-EPBs in all blue allocated to the Central Division (Selhurst) when all the rest were at Slade Green. Not sure what services they worked as I never saw them on my local trains to Sutton/Epsom/Dorking. Perhaps Sanderstead - Elmers End? IIRC the units were 5752, plus either 5751 or 5753 (can't recall which). My 1982 RCTS book has 5702-5750 Slade Green, 5751-5755 Selhurst and 5756-79, 5781-95 Wimbledon (the latter numbered from 5781 up with the big brake van originally from Tyneside, which I don't think ever made it to Slade Green). The 1976 book has only 5753 and 5754 as Selhurst, with 5702-47, 5758-79 SG and 5748-52, 5755-57, 5781-95 Wimbledon. In both those books 5701 and a few others didn't exist, having donated motor coaches to 4-EPBs and driving trailers to the Tadpole 3-R DEMUs. The SU allocation was definitely used on the West Croydon-Wimbledon service (now the tram). (Edited for number typos in 5758-79 and the tyneside ones. Sorry) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmc Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 tmc - This all depends on how much accuracy your customer wants. Model 31-377 is modelled on the units later years operating the Kent coast suburban services from Victoria, Charing Cross & Cannon Street (note model supplied with NSE sector markings and Kent Link brandings). The unit as supplied by Bachmann was allocated to Slade Green and wouldn't have normally been seen on the Tattenham Corner Branch - These services were operated by Selhurst allocated class 455 or the previously mentioned Bullied EPBs. Please also note unit 6254 was one of the facelifted units which was renumbered 6414 I believe before NSE added the route logos and red stripe as modelled by Bachmann so TBH if your customer isn't bothered about accuracy go right ahead, but if they want accuracy I don't think 6254 would be a good choice. For the record 5754 (as numbered originally)/6254/6414 was formed as DMBSO 65368 & DTSO 77553. Steve Hi Steve, With regards to the car numbers DMBSO 65368 & DTSO 77553. Would they have had any S Prefixes? e.g S65368S or would it have simply been 65368? Sorry for all the questions it's just in all the years we've been making models this isn't something I've come across and the research is difficult in terms of car numbers etc. Particularly as most of the photos are useless due to the position/angle taken. All the best! Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted December 6, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 6, 2013 S prefix but not suffix. So S65368 is correct but S65368S is not. The suffix letter was only used for pre-BR "Company" designed rolling stock. Vehicles had the S prefix removed as they went through the paint shops late in BR days. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmc Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Thank you very much Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdaveadams1 Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 Just picked up a limited edition NSE EPB for £137. More than it would have cost originally but recently they've gone for £250!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
47606odin Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 well, with the new issue of NSE liveried unit 6414 in the capital commuter set (which i have ordered), the artwork on the box shows the unit without headlight in NSE livery. is this in error? did 6414 get NSE livery before headlight? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyddrail Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 well, with the new issue of NSE liveried unit 6414 in the capital commuter set (which i have ordered), the artwork on the box shows the unit without headlight in NSE livery. is this in error? did 6414 get NSE livery before headlight? I have pics of these units in NSE without headlamps in 89 & 90 (but no pic of 6414). Cheers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kintbury jon Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 Have they modified the internal seating in the trailer coach to depict an open saloon? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tetsudofan Posted October 29, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 29, 2016 Just collected my Capital Commuter set from the Hobby Shop at Faversham and can confirm that there is no headlight. The trailer coach is open saloon at the cab end with compartments at the inner end. What is bizarre is that with all the other bits and pieces that come with the set is a NSE Network Card issued to Mr. S. Kohler!! A numbered Certificate of Authenticity is also enclosed but nothing confirming how many sets have been produced. Interesting that Harvey at the Hobby Shop mentioned that all the sets he received have been pre-sold and have not therefore appeared on his website. Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 So what does this new NSE look like and what do you get? Here are my unboxing photos. I have to say, it is a lovely set, although personally I cannot see myself ever using the station (not that it is a problem, it will stay in the box or maybe as part of the xmas tree decorations!). Will run it tonight. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 Just collected my Capital Commuter set from the Hobby Shop at Faversham and can confirm that there is no headlight. The trailer coach is open saloon at the cab end with compartments at the inner end. What is bizarre is that with all the other bits and pieces that come with the set is a NSE Network Card issued to Mr. S. Kohler!! A numbered Certificate of Authenticity is also enclosed but nothing confirming how many sets have been produced. Interesting that Harvey at the Hobby Shop mentioned that all the sets he received have been pre-sold and have not therefore appeared on his website. Keith Aha - my Network card is Mr G Farish. I'm not buying several to collect all of those! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie the Cat Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 I have pics of these units in NSE without headlamps in 89 & 90 (but no pic of 6414). Cheers. There is a good photograph on Flickr (link below) of 2EPB 6414 at Dartford on the 15 October 1990. It is in NSE livery and quite clearly has a headlight so it looks as if Bachmann may have slipped up. https://www.flickr.com/photos/16867856@N07/20848414570/in/photolist-xLiziC Charlie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold griffgriff Posted November 3, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 3, 2016 There is a good photograph on Flickr (link below) of 2EPB 6414 at Dartford on the 15 October 1990. It is in NSE livery and quite clearly has a headlight so it looks as if Bachmann may have slipped up. https://www.flickr.com/photos/16867856@N07/20848414570/in/photolist-xLiziC Charlie Renumbered June 86... perhaps repainted NSE? Will have to look it up. That leaves a gap of 4 years for a headlight. Griff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
meld Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 Hi All .. not the target unit but from around the same time of refurbishment ... 6406 on Flickr ... May 1989 very ex works and no headlamp ... https://www.flickr.com/photos/treflyn/2909785362/ MC edit for lazy digits ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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