Coopercraft Kits

[Oldddudders]

Could also mean the end of the range as many have found, but I don't think this explains the lack of a web presence. I can understand small businesses not wanting the cost and commitment of a full blown internet driven site. However having a basic site where you have to follow up using more traditional methods would in my opinion be beneficial to both owner and customer.

 

Providing false expectations are not promised, most modellers are happy to wait for delivery. I am certain most kit manufacturers would welcome additional sales

I believe Southern Pride might be an example of what you suggest, and we quite often have posts where a modeller is grinding his/her teeth because an SP order requires use of snail-mail.

[Denbridge]

A worrying aspect of the promises being made by cooper craft of resuming production, is that he is still advertising slaters kits. He no longer has the tools, etching artwork nor any rights to that range. I personally think he is making false statements in order to keep people he owes money too at bay.

[hayfield]

I believe Southern Pride might be an example of what you suggest, and we quite often have posts where a modeller is grinding his/her teeth because an SP order requires use of snail-mail.

 

Premier Products offer a similar service, I must admit to be very impressed with the quick and excellent service they provided.

 

I think it was said earlier, manage peoples expectations from the outset, then if possible try and offer a better service, but keep in touch if there are any problems.

[Pendennis]

I can understand small businesses not wanting the cost and commitment of a full blown internet driven site. However having a basic site where you have to follow up using more traditional methods would in my opinion be beneficial to both owner and customer.

 

 

I run a very niche aviation related business; there is a series of four products retailing at £20 each.  The website cost about £400 to set up; I can do most of the updates that are required and I am not very IT savvy.  I have to call on the IT lady no more than once or twice a year.  Payment done through PayPal, OK they take their cut, or via bank transfer; it couldn't be easier.  I now discourage cheque payments, they are really time consuming and the bank charges for them to be paid in so the difference is not that great.

 

As I didn't have the website for the launch of the first product I have a good idea how it impacted sales when I launched the second product; sales increased by about 50% and it then generated considerable sales for the first product.  As far as I am concerned having a website is a no-brainer.

 

Martin

[Guy Rixon]

The most-basic site that could work is a couple of paragraphs of introduction, contact and payment details (i.e. where to send the cheque, and how to ask after progress of an order), and a link to a catalogue prepared as a PDF document. I say PDF for the catalogue as this can easily be prepared by a non-technical owner of the business: it's a side effect of making a catalogue to print out and give away at shows.

 

I've just looked at wordpress.com. They will, apparently, host a site like this for free, forever. They are targeted at non-technical site-owners, so it should be easy to set up. They sell various plans, starting at £3 per month, that make the site better and more capable in various ways, but the free site would probably do the job.

 

(Other hosting providers are available. I have no connection with Wordpress, and I haven't built a site there to test the idea.)

[Horsetan]

Given the ludicrous bid level, combined delivery charges are the least of the buyers concern!

It went for 335 quid!!!

[polybear]

It went for 335 quid!!!

 

HOW MUCH??? 

[Denbridge]

It went for 335 quid!!!

seen this before. Probably had a couple of friends bidding to create an interest. Dont be surprised to see a load of kits hit ebay in the near future because he thinks he'll make a killing. Put the word out that they are being re released.

[Edwardian]

Sometimes Ebay's just a form of Idiot Tax

[57xx]

It went for 335 quid!!!

 

Still within his maximum bid placed 6 days ago too.

[cctransuk]

Which, of course, is why they stay as 'smaller players' ...

 

But of course, many of them are quite content to remain so.  Which of course is entirely their right.  As long as they don't then keep complaining about poor sales and we on here don't keep bemoaning the lack of modelling the more obscure prototypes and the increasing propensity of many modellers to stick to 'ready-to-run'.  Partly that situation exists because of the lack of awareness that alternatives exist, by two generations now, not one, who quite simply expect nowadays to find what they want (or, at least, a signpost to it) on the Internet.

 

I don't recall reading here many (any?) complaints from 'small players' about poor sales - but I do read many, many posts moaning about having to use non-IT methods of communication in order to purchase their products.

 

Get over it - it's the way that it is, and it ain't going to change !

 

.... or you could go into business yourself and produce state-of-the-art products that the mythical thousands of IT-obsessed modellers will buy by the wagon-load from your all-singing, all-dancing web-site.

 

No?

 

With a  nom-de-plume such as yours, how can it fail?

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[sharris]

Sometimes Ebay's just a form of Idiot Tax

The eBay idiot tax extends further than Slaters carriages...

 

https://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-R8008-Grand-Suspension-Bridge-Kit/302706280682?hash=item467ab348ea:g:w-8AAOSweI9a09ej

 

£132.95 for Hornby's improbable suspension bridge? It's a bargain!

[John M Upton]

Ironically Hornby are dusting off the moulds of this and similar outdated plastic rubbish and making it again, at four or five times the price that you can still find loads of them on Ebay for or gathering dust in forgotten dog eared cardboard boxes under dealers tables at any model railway show...

[Willie Whizz]

I don't recall reading here many (any?) complaints from 'small players' about poor sales - but I do read many, many posts moaning about having to use non-IT methods of communication in order to purchase their products.

 

Get over it - it's the way that it is, and it ain't going to change !

 

.... or you could go into business yourself and produce state-of-the-art products that the mythical thousands of IT-obsessed modellers will buy by the wagon-load from your all-singing, all-dancing web-site.

 

No?

 

With a  nom-de-plume such as yours, how can it fail?

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

So you think an attitude of contempt for Customers' preferences (and, more importantly, the preferences of potential Customers who might gladly buy a product if they only knew it existed at all) is not only acceptable but is to be thought the norm?  As we near the end of the second decade of the 21st Century?  And I (approaching my late-60s but perfectly competent as an Internet user) should be the one to "get over it"?

 

No, no Mr Isherwood - clearly it is you who should be starting your own business along those lines you are comfortable with; and it will undoubtedly go fast and far ... fast down the plughole and far into debt.

 

I did say in my original post, and I am happy to reiterate, that there are all sorts of valid reasons why businesses might choose or be obliged to remain small.  In the age of the "Silver Surfer" though, a "take it or leave it" mind-set coupled with the kind of technophobia that would regard even the development of the Fax Machine as a step too far is not, in itself, a valid reason IMHO. (Unless, perhaps to be fair, the supplier is very old indeed, and carries-on primarily because they need a motivating reason to get out of bed in the morning).

 

If "old stagers" can (as they so very often stridently do here on RMWeb) assure younger modellers that soldering is not a 'dark art' and urge that they should just get a grip of themselves and have a go, then I fail to see why an argument in the reverse direction is not equally valid.

[chris p bacon]

 

I did say in my original post, and I am happy to reiterate, that there are all sorts of valid reasons why businesses might choose or be obliged to remain small.  In the age of the "Silver Surfer" though, a "take it or leave it" mind-set coupled with the kind of technophobia that would regard even the development of the Fax Machine as a step too far is not, in itself, a valid reason IMHO. (Unless, perhaps to be fair, the supplier is very old indeed, and carries-on primarily because they need a motivating reason to get out of bed in the morning).

 

 

The issue of suppliers not having websites crops up time and again, invariably it is the more 'niche' or older suppliers that don't have them, as an example D&S have been mentioned in the past. But with him being in his 70's,  I have to agree with the owner (Dan) that he really doesn't need to increase production or change his ways to suit, when the existing production runs sell out in the traditional way and he gets to enjoy life.

[Oldddudders]

 

No, no Mr Isherwood - clearly it is you who should be starting your own business along those lines you are comfortable with; and it will undoubtedly go fast and far ... fast down the plughole and far into debt.

 

I believe the chap already runs a business tendering to modellers’ needs, and has done so for quite some time. His views on small businesses and their practices are based on experience therefore. Obviously I know nothing about his profitability or otherwise, but suspect he makes ends meet.

[jjb1970]

In fairness to Willie Whizz he did make clear that he had no issue with people running their business in any way they please and if small businesses are happy to stay small and avoid e-commerce then that is their right. His point was one I have a lot of sympathy for in that if kits and other goods are sold in a way which won't connect with a very large part of the potential market then people shouldn't be surprised if a large part of the market either ignores such products or is ignorant of their existence.

 

The point of e-commerce is a recurring one and in some ways I think much of the argument sort of misses the point. Whether or not it is reasonable or not for people to expect next day delivery and a very slick on-line experience is in some ways irrelevant. The benchmark has been set by those companies who do it very well and once people become accustomed to that benchmark then it naturally sets expectations for other on-line businesses. That may be slightly unfair to some small businesses, but then again there are plenty of small model shops that provide excellent on-line service and I deal with small suppliers who do it extremely well. The Internet accelerated an existing trend towards mail order for model and hobby supplies and made mail order quicker and much more convenient.

[Edwardian]

I would add that coming onto RMWeb and being consistently rude and tendentious is an interesting way to promote one's business.  That would seem to take 'suiting oneself' to extremes and is certainly an effective a way as I can think of showing contempt to customers.

 

Which is why I have never been one. .

[Enterprisingwestern]

Can anybody explain what all these model railway suppliers who don't need/want/have an Amazon-esque presence on the internet are actually doing wrong?

As others have said, it's what they do, it's what they feel comfortable with, and although it might not be where they want to be with their business, there's no point people getting in a high dudgeon over it.

 

Mike.

[Edwardian]

I certainly go to the relative trouble of communicating with a variety of traders by whatever means is most effective, including, believe it or not, Royal Mail.  I have no problem with that. 

 

Sometimes I have been caught out by the existence of an email address that in reality is never attended to.

 

One thing I will say is that in practice I have found that I am more likely to get round to a purchase where it can be made on the web.  For instance, I am likely now to miss out on a whole load of David Geen wagon kits because I never got round to dealing with him in the way he traded and now he is retiring.  Had he had an ecommerce site, I'd have a draw full of his unbuilt kits by now!

,

It is for each cottage industrialist, however, to decide the extent to which any impact on sales bothers them.  

 

The bigger issue is that useful kit and accessory ranges continue to disappear.  Let us hope for the re-introduction of Slaters 4mm range, to set against the general trend.

[Horsetan]

HOW MUCH??? 

That's exactly what I said when I saw the result!!

[hayfield]

The real issue is not about buying an item quickly, efficiently, or what ever other reasons why many choose to buy online

 

For me its all about firstly knowing what is available, and what quality one can expect. Being new to 7 mm scale modelling my knowledge is very limited, and to be honest having a web presence does not guarantee this. For instance Laurie Green Products, I had never heard of him or his products, good website, wide range of items (kits and parts) and stunning quality coupled with easy to buy online. Premier components much the same, but without online buying. Then online buying can cause issues as we have seen with Coopercraft certainly ease of buying, different story about receiving goods

 

With well known brands changing hands or the demise of distributors like W&H it becomes increasingly more difficult to obtain some items, but others where the likes of Peco or Phoenix take over becomes easier to source and buy items.

 

Then its what is put up on the website, quality of both photo's and description is important, Shapeways for instance where they show a computer generated impression of what the item looks like rather than a photo of the finished product. Or a kit manufacturer not stating what's included within the kit. We have even read that some believe that certain suppliers should reduce their show attendances, but what's better than seeing an item in the flesh and more so being able to buy it there and then

 

Perhaps some of the societies could get together and produce a combined data base of models and manufacturers could be an idea. For example I have several W&H catalogues which I constantly use for reference of what was available, or the Scalefour Society allows use of its website to some companies.

 

But the more you think about this subject the more complicated it becomes

[cctransuk]

 

 

No, no Mr Isherwood - clearly it is you who should be starting your own business along those lines you are comfortable with; and it will undoubtedly go fast and far ... fast down the plughole and far into debt.

 

 

.... in reply to which, I would simply point you to https://www.cctrans.org.uk/ .

 

You will see that I do have a web presence; that I do accept orders by e-mail; and that I do accept electronic payment. Yet it seems that, despite these much-vaunted 21st Century facilities, you are still ignorant of my existence.

 

I have been providing transfers, on my own terms, since 1999 and have not gone fast down the plughole, and I am certainly not far into debt - indeed, I don't owe a penny to anyone.

 

Thus, I speak from nearly two decades of experience; when you can match that I will take more seriously your advice on how to run a niche railway modelling operation.

 

If someone chooses to offer a service they have an absolute right to do so on their own terms. If, in doing so, they exclude from their customer base those who wish to dictate their own trading methods, I'm sure that they will consider it a benefit.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Edited May 9, 2018 by cctransuk

[chris p bacon]

Perhaps some of the societies could get together and produce a combined data base of models and manufacturers could be an idea. 

 

 

Some of us already are John         Steve White has compiled the list below for 4mm (we have another for 7mm) 

 

https://www.gnrsociety.com/home-page/about-the-gnr/gnr-models-and-modelmaking/4mm-modelling-supplies/

[81C]

I would add that coming onto RMWeb and being consistently rude and tendentious is an interesting way to promote one's business.  That would seem to take 'suiting oneself' to extremes and is certainly an effective a way as I can think of showing contempt to customers.

 

Which is why I have never been one. .