What is your one compromise too far?

[Mallard60022]

My biggest gripe at exhibitions is the valence added to the front of a layout to hide the legs and accumulated detritus that is mandatory under a layout at a show.

 

Invariably stuck to the front of the  baseboard facia with some form of pins, and hanging there all creased and slack, not unlike Fanny Flopdrawers' unwashed and un-ironed bloomers.

When I was an exhibitionist I asked SWMBO to make me some Valence/Drapes and we fitted those and the board fronts with Velcro. They were a work of art. Colour to fit the layout era (Blue Diesel.....sorry).

No pins in boards involved.

P 

[newbryford]

My biggest gripe at exhibitions is the valence added to the front of a layout to hide the legs and accumulated detritus that is mandatory under a layout at a show.

 

Invariably stuck to the front of the  baseboard facia with some form of pins, and hanging there all creased and slack, not unlike Fanny Flopdrawers' unwashed and un-ironed bloomers.

 

And I'm not going to ask how you would know that Fanny Flopdrawers' unwashed and un-ironed bloomers are all creased and slack.......................

 

 

 

Cheers,

Mick

[Butler Henderson]

My biggest gripe at exhibitions is the valence added to the front of a layout to hide the legs and accumulated detritus that is mandatory under a layout at a show.

So you would rather like to see the legs and the "accumulated detritus"? Exhibitors get limited space so putting stuff under the layout is of course a mandatory action usually; if you are very lucky you might get a table behind the layout to use. As often the "accumulated detritus" includes items of significant value their is a need for a screen. The pins issue can be overcome, either by use of Velcro as suggested above or by pinning into the underside of the layout. Creases are more difficult to resolve, after all the valance has to be transported along with the layout, may it be time for exhibitions to offer a valance ironing service to exhibitors. Edited April 29, 2018 by Butler Henderson

[The Johnster]

Shiny rail sides. Painting them a dirty rust colour is a boring task but it makes so much of a visual difference.

Seeing track disappear into a tunnel with no attempt whatsoever to make the tunnel itself look dark.

Clean permanent way, particularly on steam era layouts. Railways were filthy places.

 

Actually, most steam age permanent way was clean and well kept, though less so where locos stood for any length of time.  Oil dribbling diesels put paid to this.  A steam loco, unless it is being actively fired or working very hard, exhausts steam, which condenses into water vapour, and is very clean indeed in operation.  But too many layouts have per way in a pristine condition.

[The Johnster]

My biggest gripe at exhibitions is the valence added to the front of a layout to hide the legs and accumulated detritus that is mandatory under a layout at a show.

 

Invariably stuck to the front of the  baseboard facia with some form of pins, and hanging there all creased and slack, not unlike Fanny Flopdrawers' unwashed and un-ironed bloomers.

 

Fanny Flopdrawers; I haven't heard that for years.  A blast from the past...

[bike2steam]

(From my days of 'bunking' them. We did ask permission sometimes....). 

 

Ah - that's where I went wrong, getting slung out of sheds like Guildford, Southall( only a few times), Saltley, Edge Hill, and Colwick, all the harder ones to 'bunk'(properly).

Edited April 29, 2018 by bike2steam

[great central]

Catenary masts without the wires! Can cope with pantographs not touching the wire or even if the wire is not totally in alignment due to train set curves but the wire or a representation needs to be there. I also realise at a scale size it probably wouldn't be visible!

Cheers

Mark

 

I'll even accept incorrect pantographs so long as they appear to be doing the job. All my class 76s have Lima pantographs, not strictly correct but pretty near and they're robust enough to withstand de-wirements.

As for High Speed and Cross Arm for 87s, it's a bit more difficult. I'm currently trying to re-work a Hornby High Speed one for an 87 and will most likely be buying a judith Edge kit for a cross arm in the not too distant future. Those I have got have the two versions that Lima fitted as original equipment.

Did I also metion that these are for DC kits class 76s and Lima 87s? Oh dear that's two compromises, but the 76s were done long before the Heljan ones, back in the late 80s/early 90s and they've covered many real miles without problems.

The 87s won't be replaced by Hornby ones for two reasons, cost for a start and, as I understand it, still no working pantographs

[James Harrison]

Varying standards of modelling across the same layout.  By which I mean, for example, a beautifully kit or scratch built/ painted/ finished/ weathered locomotive at the head of a rake of fully detailed kitbuilt carriages running through a townscape made up of proprietary cardboard kits.  Just completely ruins the appearance for me; I have a thing about everything being 'of a hand' and built to the same level of detail/ ability.

[Clive Mortimore]

My biggest gripe at exhibitions is the valence added to the front of a layout to hide the legs and accumulated detritus that is mandatory under a layout at a show.

 

Invariably stuck to the front of the  baseboard facia with some form of pins, and hanging there all creased and slack, not unlike Fanny Flopdrawers' unwashed and un-ironed bloomers.

So what should we modellers be doing to appease your dislike of creased and slack curtains around our layouts.

 

I know have proper curtain rails, bring along the iron (that would mean no ironed shirts for work the next week but oh hum), and the ironing board (something else to hide). Do you have a preferred colour?

 

Now for some reason I thought we were displaying our modelling at exhibitions not our ability to hang curtains, what with having to entertain the great unwashed we have another thing to add to our skills.

 

And there is me thinking that this was a thread about modelling compromise, you know like running the wrong train in the wrong time period.

Edited April 29, 2018 by Clive Mortimore

[Mallard60022]

So what should we modellers be doing to appease your dislike of creased and slack curtains around our layouts.

 

I know have proper curtain rails, bring along the iron (that would mean no ironed shirts for work the next week but oh hum), and the ironing board (something else to hide). Do you have a preferred colour?

 

Now for some reason I thought we were displaying our modelling at exhibitions not our ability to hang curtains, what with having to entertain the great unwashed we have another thing to add to our skills.

 

And there is me thinking that this was a thread about modelling compromise, you know like running the wrong train in the wrong time period.

I'm compromising myself by starting a Layout Drapes hire Company. Bit like Bouncy Castle hire but with no bounce or castle.

Ar$£

[Clive Mortimore]

My biggest gripe at exhibitions is the valence added to the front of a layout to hide the legs and accumulated detritus that is mandatory under a layout at a show.

 

Invariably stuck to the front of the  baseboard facia with some form of pins, and hanging there all creased and slack, not unlike Fanny Flopdrawers' unwashed and un-ironed bloomers.

Of course the biggest problem with displaying at exhibitions is the person presenting the model. Now if you go to many trade exhibitions the front person is normally an attractive lady not some fat bald bloke. Now that is a compromise too far.

[orford]

The worst compromise for me is the ridiculous amount of 'slop' between wheels and frames and wheels and track in supposedly fine scale commercially produced 'O' Gauge. It's ludicrous - and also utterly useless if you happen to use auto couplings in 'O'.

 

I spend hours modifying O Gauge rolling stock to take it out so that rolling stock actually runs in a straight line, rather than 'crabbing' along the track. Usually something between 2mm and 3mm of slop has to be taken out.

 

WHY do O Gauge manufacturers continue to perpetuate this ridiculous state of affairs? I suspect that it's a legacy of trying to make fine scale O run on coarse scale track, or vice-versa, which is never s good idea anyway and a quite outdated concept these days.

 

Slaters, Dapol & Parkside are the worst offenders and I also find that the back-to-back also needs increasing slightly on all of them for really reliable running on Peco fine scale track.

 

Conversely the best manufacturers in this respect are Minerva Models, who's vehicles need no modification at all.

[Il Grifone]

The worst compromise for me is the ridiculous amount of 'slop' between wheels and frames and wheels and track in supposedly fine scale commercially produced 'O' Gauge. It's ludicrous - and also utterly useless if you happen to use auto couplings in 'O'.

 

I spend hours modifying O Gauge rolling stock to take it out so that rolling stock actually runs in a straight line, rather than 'crabbing' along the track. Usually something between 2mm and 3mm of slop has to be taken out.

 

WHY do O Gauge manufacturers continue to perpetuate this ridiculous state of affairs? I suspect that it's a legacy of trying to make fine scale O run on coarse scale track, or vice-versa, which is never s good idea anyway and a quite outdated concept these days.

 

Slaters, Dapol & Parkside are the worst offenders and I also find that the back-to-back also needs increasing slightly on all of them for really reliable running on Peco fine scale track.

 

Conversely the best manufacturers in this respect are Minerva Models, who's vehicles need no modification at all.

 

It's not only a problem in 0 gauge, 00 suffers as well. Tension lock couplings that don't pull in the centre of the vehicle only make matters worse.

[DCB]

Of course the biggest problem with displaying at exhibitions is the person presenting the model. Now if you go to many trade exhibitions the front person is normally an attractive lady not some fat bald bloke. Now that is a compromise too far.

That sir is ageist, sexist and very true.

[iands]

The same applies to telegraph wires. The lack of the wires is obvious. Getting the right amount of sag is another matter....

Ah, the easy way round the lack of telegraph wires is to provide a model concrete trough route in the cess and claim that the wires have been removed - just waiting for the poles to be removed. If you don't want to go to the trouble of providing a trough route on your model, just explain that the pole route is still redundant and the wires have been removed pending removal of the poles - and that the wires have been replaced by lineside cabling - but that this has been 'mole-ploughed' in the cess and is out of sight. For a touch of realism, you could "cut" one of the poles down and lay it on the lineside to indicate that the pole route is redundant. However, this solution doesn't overcome the issue of spiders leaving their tell-tale signs everywhere as discussed in further posts.

 

Regards, Ian.

 

Edited to correct spelling mistake.

Edited April 30, 2018 by iands

[James Harrison]

The same applies to telegraph wires. The lack of the wires is obvious. Getting the right amount of sag is another matter....

 

Modelling goals. 

 

 

New York 1887.  Now, I'm going to need a lot of cotton thread...

[Il Grifone]

Modelling goals. 

 

 

New York 1887.  Now, I'm going to need a lot of cotton thread...

 

 

[john new]

In general I'm fairly tolerant of modelling quality provided, as others have said, the quality across the whole is roughly comparable, and the item is a fair attempt at looking like the model maker has tried to resemble somewhere in a time-frame. If you want mixed period stock make it a preserved line but with the scene settings to make it appear plausible. It is the vague somewhere on the South Coast type layout with no attempt to make the setting look like a specific area/time frame that becomes my compromise too far. Very happy to see collectables layouts, I showed one for a while, but for me a compromise too far on those are the more extreme of the never-wazzers on a show layout; but each to their own. 

 

In addition what is disappointing to me on many show layouts, although they aren't through modelling compromises, are:- 

• In most magazine photo shoots, and often at exhibitions, the lighting is too bright making even the most exquisite of fine scale modelling look off because it ceases to look natural. 
• Things that don't scale - water is one, sound another (Invariably turned up far too loud rather than subtle) and as others have said most LED flashing extras.
• Mixing weathered/unweathered items. The eye/brain adjusts to all clean straight out of the box, or all weathered, it doesn't to a mixture - the one item out of place then screams wrong.
• Low overhead pelmets - as a tall person they often get in the way.
• Fiddle yards deliberately made unviewable (as opposed to just separated off by an effective scenic break which is essential). Often I actually want to see the stock and watch the way other modellers handle working their fiddle area to see if it would/wouldn't work for me.
• Overly slow running on layouts that, however superbly modelled, become quickly boring because despite the modelling being superb there is nothing to grip your attention span either on the track or over the fence. 

At the end of the day though it comes down to individual preferences - a Cuneo painting and stylised railway posters are less accurate in comparison to a photo but it is those I have on my wall/calendars, not photos, as they capture the essence of the scene. I am ham-fisted as a model maker compared with the elite, but I like to think my layouts capture the atmosphere of the place and that is my key factor. 

 

So to sum up my compromise too far - models that have lost the atmosphere of the bit of railway they are ostensibly portraying.

Edited April 30, 2018 by john new

[009 micro modeller]

Finescale layouts where everything directly related to the railway is modelled in massive detail but then the scenery is just flat grass in a single colour or similar and the non-railway buildings are at a similarly low level of detail.

[Mallard60022]

In general I'm fairly tolerant of modelling quality provided, as others have said, the quality across the whole is roughly comparable, and the item is a fair attempt at looking like the model maker has tried to resemble somewhere in a time-frame. If you want mixed period stock make it a preserved line but with the scene settings to make it appear plausible. It is the vague somewhere on the South Coast type layout with no attempt to make the setting look like a specific area/time frame that becomes my compromise too far. Very happy to see collectables layouts, I showed one for a while, but for me a compromise too far on those are the more extreme of the never-wazzers on a show layout; but each to their own. 

 

In addition what is disappointing to me on many show layouts, although they aren't through modelling compromises, are:- 

• In most magazine photo shoots, and often at exhibitions, the lighting is too bright making even the most exquisite of fine scale modelling look off because it ceases to look natural. 
• Things that don't scale - water is one, sound another (Invariably turned up far too loud rather than subtle) and as others have said most LED flashing extras.
• Mixing weathered/unweathered items. The eye/brain adjusts to all clean straight out of the box, or all weathered, it doesn't to a mixture - the one item out of place then screams wrong.
• Low overhead pelmets - as a tall person they often get in the way.
• Fiddle yards deliberately made unviewable (as opposed to just separated off by an effective scenic break which is essential). Often I actually want to see the stock and watch the way other modellers handle working their fiddle area to see if it would/wouldn't work for me.
• Overly slow running on layouts that, however superbly modelled, become quickly boring because despite the modelling being superb there is nothing to grip your attention span either on the track or over the fence. 

At the end of the day though it comes down to individual preferences - a Cuneo painting and stylised railway posters are less accurate in comparison to a photo but it is those I have on my wall/calendars, not photos, as they capture the essence of the scene. I am ham-fisted as a model maker compared with the elite, but I like to think my layouts capture the atmosphere of the place and that is my key factor. 

 

So to sum up my compromise too far - models that have lost the atmosphere of the bit of railway they are ostensibly portraying.

Pelmets....yes I agree, far too often the Procenium space and stage is too narrow/shallow and also those layouts that are at shoulder height and can not be seen well by youngsters or folk in chairs. I say this despite loving (for example) Albion Yard and similar 'shelf style' layouts.

Phil

[coachmann]

If only half of layouts built by the experts on this thread were on display in layout topics, RMweb would be an inspiration to the world.  

[bgman]

Stations with all the platform lamps lit during the daytime, emergency vehicles with flashings lights, glowing bonfires and sweaty blokes at exhibitions !

[Pete the Elaner]

 

WHY do O Gauge manufacturers continue to perpetuate this ridiculous state of affairs? I suspect that it's a legacy of trying to make fine scale O run on coarse scale track, or vice-versa, which is never s good idea anyway and a quite outdated concept these days.

 

 

You have answered your own question there.

Some models have been made to a much finer scale but O gauge is a set of standards which was defined some time ago, so unless you define a new 7mm set of standards & persuade manufacturers to use it, therefore alienating all those with older stock, manufacturers must continue to make O gauge backwardly compatible.

If you are not happy with this compromise, then consider moving to Scale7?

[Forester]

Shiny copper and brass pipes. Silver rods and valve gear.

[Neil]

My biggest gripe at exhibitions is the valence added to the front of a layout to hide the legs and accumulated detritus that is mandatory under a layout at a show.

 

Invariably stuck to the front of the  baseboard facia with some form of pins, and hanging there all creased and slack, not unlike Fanny Flopdrawers' unwashed and un-ironed bloomers.

 

Good to see I'm not the only one who would question the desirability of the rumpled Punch and Judy show style of presentation.

 

So you would rather like to see the legs and the "accumulated detritus"? .....

 

Actually, I think I would. Perhaps it might encourage some editing out of the full workshop facilities, spares of spares, mates bags and carriers full of the weekends purchases which seem to accumulate behind some layouts. Curtains only hide this debris from the front, much is still visible when layouts are arranged in blocks in the centre of the exhibition hall.

 

So what should we modellers be doing to appease your dislike of creased and slack curtains around our layouts. ...

 

 

A good question. I'd suggest that our work deserves more than four metres of sagging cloth so perhaps we need to look at other examples of how creative 3-D work is displayed. I wouldn't like to suggest a one style fits all solution but I think it may pay to examine how art galleries and museums put on displays or how shops merchandise their wares.