What is your one compromise too far?

[Clive Mortimore]

Good to see I'm not the only one who would question the desirability of the rumpled Punch and Judy show style of presentation.

 

 

Actually, I think I would. Perhaps it might encourage some editing out of the full workshop facilities, spares of spares, mates bags and carriers full of the weekends purchases which seem to accumulate behind some layouts. Curtains only hide this debris from the front, much is still visible when layouts are arranged in blocks in the centre of the exhibition hall.

 

 

A good question. I'd suggest that our work deserves more than four metres of sagging cloth so perhaps we need to look at other examples of how creative 3-D work is displayed. I wouldn't like to suggest a one style fits all solution but I think it may pay to examine how art galleries and museums put on displays or how shops merchandise their wares.

So we have not only to entertain and engage with the public (even if they don't want) but display our model railways as if they were merchandise for sale.

 

What about getting some people to not run RTR straight out the box, trying to get their train set to look like a model of the real thing, to use those strange things called signals, and the passengers waiting for a train sat on a platform bench without dangly legs.

 

The last thing I look at is the curtain around a layout, I am at an exhibition to see model railways not drapes, or pelmets (which I hate). 

[Steamport Southport]

 and the passengers waiting for a train sat on a platform bench without dangly legs.

 

 

But some of us only have little legs.....

 

 

 

Jason

[Phil Bullock]

Hi,

 

Poorly researched and modelled signalling claiming to be Prototypical...

 

Simon

 

But even worse.....NO signalling!

 

Phil

[The Johnster]

My take on presentation is that it needs to be there, hiding the rough edges and controlling the sight lines, but not in a way that is obtrusive; you should be unaware of it unless you are looking for it.  Gaudy attention seeking stuff is bad, but almost as bad is the restrained black/dark grey approach when it is covered with previous exhibition badges and credits.  It draws attention in the wrong way and I don't particularly want to know how brilliant all those exhibition organisers thought your layout was; I want to make up my own mind.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

1. Trap points (ie lack there of). Don't mind if they're dummy ones though.

 

2. Layouts displaying badges (I exhibited at x, I won best layout at y, I appeared in the z magazine)

 

PS Posted this without reading the similar comments in the post above

Edited May 2, 2018 by Peter Kazmierczak

[Right Away]

But even worse.....NO signalling!

 

Phil

Quite agree.

Correctly located signals are of more importance to model railway realism than many other items of infrastructure. Even if they are not remotely operated, they still command a striking visual presence to any layout.

[timbowilts]

But even worse.....NO signalling!

 

Phil

Uness the prototype did actually exist without signalling? The end of a branch worked one-engine-in-steam with hand worked points?

 

Tim T

[Phil Bullock]

Uness the prototype did actually exist without signalling? The end of a branch worked one-engine-in-steam with hand worked points?

 

Tim T

 

Indeed - that would be entirely accurate Tim.

 

Quite agree.

Correctly located signals are of more importance to model railway realism than many other items of infrastructure. Even if they are not remotely operated, they still command a striking visual presence to any layout.

 

Particularly semaphores!

 

Phil

[009 micro modeller]

Uness the prototype did actually exist without signalling? The end of a branch worked one-engine-in-steam with hand worked points?

 

Tim T

Or a minor industrial railway, or RETB equipped line... (but equally I think a few larger industrial systems had signals, can anyone confirm?)

[Phil Bullock]

RETB still has evidence of signalling - signage etc

 

https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=5ryBcfgc&id=8C24789CA18880D244E97D99FB1070CA1A9FE27E&thid=OIP.5ryBcfgcnoQKBvG-wrybkwHaFP&mediaurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sankeyscenics.co.uk%2Fcommunities%2F3%2F004%2F008%2F947%2F313%2Fimages%2F4614059076.jpg&exph=1240&expw=1754&q=retb+signage&simid=608011361019298385&selectedindex=4&ajaxhist=0

 

And heres NCB Lambton....https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=2goYdRTg&id=BBD14758F7526336818297E670467E9A4E2ED16C&thid=OIP.2goYdRTgQFF1s4c4JCeoPgHaFP&mediaurl=http%3a%2f%2frailphotoprints.uk%2fimg%2fs10%2fv102%2fp2404202181-4.jpg&exph=566&expw=800&q=ncb+philadelphia&simid=608026526507208039&selectedIndex=31&ajaxhist=0

 

Am sure other extensive systems were equipped too...

 

Phil

Edited May 2, 2018 by Phil Bullock

[Steamport Southport]

Mersey Docks and Harbour Board, Manchester Ship Canal, Wemyss Private Railway, just off the top of my head.

 

Wemyss signalman.  http://wemysscastlestation.info/html/wemyss_workers.html

 

 

 

Jason

[F-UnitMad]

But even worse.....NO signalling!

 

Phil

Uness the prototype did actually exist without signalling? The end of a branch worked one-engine-in-steam with hand worked points?

Tim T

American Short Lines.

 

But of course that's all nasty, foreign stuff that a great many UK modellers would simply ignore anyway at a Show.

Good - as this thread shows, some of them are such fussy & ungrateful bas... people they'll find fault even with layouts that are in their 'field of interest'!!

[sharris]

So you would rather like to see the legs.

Are you talking about the layout's or the operators'?

 

For valancing may I suggest

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Thomas-Patch-inch-Drop-Curtain/dp/B0722PWXZX

Edited May 2, 2018 by sharris

[newbryford]

My take on presentation is that it needs to be there, hiding the rough edges and controlling the sight lines, but not in a way that is obtrusive; you should be unaware of it unless you are looking for it.  Gaudy attention seeking stuff is bad, but almost as bad is the restrained black/dark grey approach when it is covered with previous exhibition badges and credits.  It draws attention in the wrong way and I don't particularly want to know how brilliant all those exhibition organisers thought your layout was; I want to make up my own mind.

 

 

I put the badges on so that exhibition managers know not to invite me again.

True story - I was approached by an exhibition manager who had just taken over his own club's exhibition and wanted to invite me to their next show - I kindly pointed him in the direction of said badge collection showing him the one from his club's show a few months previous.

 

And it's not necessarily the exhibition organisers who think your layout was brilliant - many of the awards at shows are either voted by the public or other exhibitors. As per a previous thread, we never went out to win awards, but it was great if you did.

Our favourite one was a hand drawn certificate by a 8-y-o for "best model railway". We framed it as we were so proud of it and it takes far more pride of place than the cup we won. We had to hand the cup back, we got to keep the certificate!

 

I actually quite like the badges, as it's a way of saying "thank you" for coming to the show.

 

As for curtains - they are a necessary item to hide the stock boxes or even worse, the operators legs, particularly at a warm show when shorts are more comfortable.

We usually have a carpet down to ease the aching feet and it's not unknown for shoes to be discarded for comfort.

 

Pelmets - entirely a personal preference, but they do have their practical uses, a low pelmet can shield the public from an ugly operator - or vice versa............. 

There are other advantages to a low pelmet, but they are outside the realms of a family forum...........

 

And this thread is potentially developing into another "things I don't like at exhibitions thread"

 

Back on topic.

 

I've just realised another compromise that I make - having to give up weekends to take layouts to shows.

 

 

 

 

Cheer,

Mick

Edited May 3, 2018 by newbryford

[Steamport Southport]

I quite like the badges. 

 

Handy for when you are wondering where you've seen the layout before without having to ask.

 

 

I also like when some layouts have photos of the real thing or even a magazine article next to the layout.

 

 

 

Jason

[tarifa]

My biggest gripe at exhibitions is the valence added to the front of a layout to hide the legs and accumulated detritus that is mandatory under a layout at a show.

 

Invariably stuck to the front of the  baseboard facia with some form of pins, and hanging there all creased and slack, not unlike Fanny Flopdrawers' unwashed and un-ironed bloomers.

I'm trying to fathom what this comment has to do with the title of this thread.

[timbowilts]

I'm trying to fathom what this comment has to do with the title of this thread.

Remember this is RMWeb, you’ll get brainache trying!

 

Tim T

[Guy Rixon]

I intensely dislike layouts where both the appearance of the trains and the operation are toy-like. I'm content to watch ultra-coarse-scale layouts doing a good impression of what a railway does, and I've enjoyed exhibits where very pretty and finely-modelled trains made unconvincing movements over dubious track-layouts. Getting both wrong makes a layout unexhibitable in my book.

 

The other thing is lack of lighting. A layout shown with no lighting of its own is badly spoilt. It's very, very rare for a venue to provide enough ambient light for exhibits and it's easy to provide at least some local lighting even if it isn't complete and optimised. There's a bench-lamp-on-a-tall-stand thing you can buy and a couple of those standing over a layout would be better than nothing.

[Clive Mortimore]

I intensely dislike layouts where both the appearance of the trains and the operation are toy-like. I'm content to watch ultra-coarse-scale layouts doing a good impression of what a railway does, and I've enjoyed exhibits where very pretty and finely-modelled trains made unconvincing movements over dubious track-layouts. Getting both wrong makes a layout unexhibitable in my book.

 

The other thing is lack of lighting. A layout shown with no lighting of its own is badly spoilt. It's very, very rare for a venue to provide enough ambient light for exhibits and it's easy to provide at least some local lighting even if it isn't complete and optimised. There's a bench-lamp-on-a-tall-stand thing you can buy and a couple of those standing over a layout would be better than nothing.

I find come the end of a days exhibiting the layout lights have given me a headache as they are constantly in my field of vision. My last two exhibital layouts have no lighting. They are also at a height where I can sit down to operate.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/67810-brisbane-roada-new-pig-lane/?p=1597269

 

just look at the state of those curtains, and they are held in place with PINS.

[Brit70053]

My No No on model steam locos is none prototypical bends or kinks in rods (usually the connecting rod).

I understand the need for this on certain models, restricted clearances, avoidance of other motion parts,rivets etc., but my eyes and mind just can't accept this compromise.

Its one of the reasons I never seriously considered N gauge, where this is common on steam outline models, but has also put me off considering purchase of some 4mm/ 'OO' models such as the NRM's GNR Atlantic.

 

Regards,

 

John

 

Edit for word spacing problem.

Edited May 3, 2018 by Brit70053

[Talltim]

I had got the impression that this thread was intended to about the compromises you wouldn’t do in your modelling, not about others’ modelling.

My personal bugbear is foobies, models with incorrect paint, common in stuff produced by US manufacturers who try to get the most use out their moulds. I try and avoid them but I’ve been caught out sometimes, especially with impulse purchases (ooh shiny!)

[Guy Rixon]

Clive, I understand if lights cause you grief they have to be left off. For layouts mounted low, with no proscenium, however, I think the lights I mentioned could be behind the operators, above their shoulders. That should solve the eyestrain issue and the audience won't be looking for long enough to have a problem (at any layout - that's not a dig at yours ) I personally would not exhibit without lights.

[Pete the Elaner]

I had got the impression that this thread was intended to about the compromises you wouldn’t do in your modelling, not about others’ modelling.

 

Surely there is sometimes a lack of distinction between the 2?

Once you model something yourself which to you looks better, when you see it done the way you used to, it becomes less satisfying.

[The Johnster]

I remember layout lighting from back in the day when I used be involved in exhibiting, and it could certainly give you eyestrain and a headache; lighting arranged to illuminate the model from the front for the benefit of viewers inevitably shines in the eyes of the operators.  Modern lighting is more powerful and often of the 'spot' variety, and cold to represent daylight; this is even less pleasant on the receiving end. 

 

At one show back in the 80s, I got so fed up that I bought a half dozen kiddie's visors from, IIRC, the Dean Forest Railway stand, and brought them back to distribute to my fellow operators; they were very effective.  When mocked, as we rapidly were, we explained that they only looked like kiddies visors, but were in fact the trial model of a very sophisticated electronic AGD, Anti Glare Device, that we were testing in secret for a local firm.  People were impressed, and wanted to know where to get one...

[The Johnster]

I put the badges on so that exhibition managers know not to invite me again.

True story - I was approached by an exhibition manager who had just taken over his own club's exhibition and wanted to invite me to their next show - I kindly pointed him in the direction of said badge collection showing him the one from his club's show a few months previous.

 

And it's not necessarily the exhibition organisers who think your layout was brilliant - many of the awards at shows are either voted by the public or other exhibitors. As per a previous thread, we never went out to win awards, but it was great if you did.

Our favourite one was a hand drawn certificate by a 8-y-o for "best model railway". We framed it as we were so proud of it and it takes far more pride of place than the cup we won. We had to hand the cup back, we got to keep the certificate!

cert.jpg

 

I actually quite like the badges, as it's a way of saying "thank you" for coming to the show.

 

As for curtains - they are a necessary item to hide the stock boxes or even worse, the operators legs, particularly at a warm show when shorts are more comfortable.

We usually have a carpet down to ease the aching feet and it's not unknown for shoes to be discarded for comfort.

 

Pelmets - entirely a personal preference, but they do have their practical uses, a low pelmet can shield the public from an ugly operator - or vice versa............. 

There are other advantages to a low pelmet, but they are outside the realms of a family forum...........

 

And this thread is potentially developing into another "things I don't like at exhibitions thread"

 

Back on topic.

 

I've just realised another compromise that I make - having to give up weekends to take layouts to shows.

 

 

 

 

Cheer,

Mick

 

Nothing wrong with being proud of the badges or awards, or displaying, but I would prefer to see them to the side and not as part of the layout presentation.