Class 66 in OO Gauge - New Announcement

[adb968008]

10 hours ago, ERIC ALLTORQUE said:

Yup,well i was at Yoda,s first birthday party............

That was a long time ago, in a galaxy far far away….

Edited March 16, 2022 by adb968008

[ERIC ALLTORQUE]

Well 5 of 66623 and we are done........no more £119 bargins to have

[Torbay Express]

19 hours ago, andyman7 said:

Indeed! But the observation was that rather than leading to a permanent step change in Class 66 availability it looks increasingly like this production was a one-off, with those able to buy whist they were in stock the lucky ones.

 

People had long enough to buy them, it's just that they listened to those who decided they were crap, without coming to their own informed decision.  Yes, some did have issues, but with a bit of patience and less over reaction......but 'Hattons Shed Bashing' became a modelling sensation.

 

There were times I could have sent all mine back, but didn't.  On a couple of occasions during the first lockdown, I went bed after 5am, after trying to sort them.

 

A constant supply is never going to happen, model railways are a niche market, and batches are produced.  Even in the days of the £7.xx 16t Mineral  which sold production run after production run, there was never consistent supply.  Car manufacturers can have a production line producing cars day after day because it's a mass global market.   

 

Before a new run can be made, tooling needs to be modified to remove the gremlins in the first batch, or Hattons will be ridiculed again, they may want tool new new light clusters, which will then need new lighting circuit PCBs, then in top of that a production needs to be planned.  Most manufacturers do 500-750 in a run, with 3 examples - so circa 2000 models.Hattons did 37 variants, and I am conservatively estimating over 30,000 units were made - and wouldn't be at all surprised if it topped at least 40,000.  Then of course there were 3 versions - DCC ready, DCC fitted and DCC sound.  A production run like that is a huge challenge, to source bought in components such as wheelsets, PCBs and motors, then to produce a production plan to manufacture these products is a huge challenge.  Add to that supply issues and human resources shortages due to Covid and it's a momentous task, and large risk for the manufacturer.  On a positive - with Hattons being both importer and retailer, they could just take one margin which could keep retail price around its original £150.  It could also use this position to generate pre-order sales, to restore confidence after the issues encountered with the first batch.  It is interesting in a recent sale one newish class of locomotive offered at £180, vice usual discounted price of £203.xx never sold a DC ready version - maybe we have reached the limit to what people are prepared to pay for a 'quiet' locomotive.

[adb968008]

I doubt anything like 40k class 66’s were made, I doubt it was more than 10k.

 

generically, Runs of 100 are not unknown on a livery, Ive even seen a rtr model of a run of just 24… and there was 6 different locos produced at that qty.

 

I agree though it was enlightening that the sale on 47004 didn't move that 22 “in stock” figure… It might not be the price thats the issue, but the “value”… ive any number of Bachmann 47’s, nothing wrong with them, so theres less value to me in the new tooling… but old Hornby 86’s were a poor show and I went whole hearted buying Heljan 86’s at a similar price. Bachmann 24’s are sticking, but SLWs are doing ok…

 

I think the value of the prototype makes more difference than cost, in a market with very low production volumes…but wide variety of choice.

 

I suggest watching the DBSO at £127.. I reckon NR is already long gone for dust before release, but Intercity will stick around… Anglia will do ok.. but if the rest of the Anglia rake appears they will all dissapear…

 

 

 

Edited March 16, 2022 by adb968008

[ERIC ALLTORQUE]

I think the game changer for DC or DCC is the fact that sound works on DC now on the latest models from some manufacturers.

[TomScrut]

30 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

I suggest watching the DBSO at £127.. I reckon NR is already long gone for dust before release

 

I think so, regardless of those who were saying it is £127 for a "coach".

 

31 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

I agree though it was enlightening that the sale on 47004 didn't move that 22 “in stock” figure… It might not be the price thats the issue, but the “value”… ive any number of Bachmann 47’s, nothing wrong with them, so theres less value to me in the new tooling

 

Yes, I expect they are going to have to be careful what they choose for that new 47. Either something special/unique that hasn't been done before or something really generic that people can justify having one because of that.

6 minutes ago, ERIC ALLTORQUE said:

I think the game changer for DC or DCC is the fact that sound works on DC now on the latest models from some manufacturers.

 

Anything with a Loksound V5 in will do so if programmed correctly I think.

 

1 hour ago, Torbay Express said:

People had long enough to buy them, it's just that they listened to those who decided they were crap, without coming to their own informed decision.  Yes, some did have issues, but with a bit of patience and less over reaction......but 'Hattons Shed Bashing' became a modelling sensation.

 

I completely agree, there was a lot of mocking going off on Facebook when they first came about, which also coincided with people sitting about at home with nothing better to do. I expect most of the people making the jokes had not even seen a Hattons 66 in the flesh when making these jokes, just riding a hype train.

[Torbay Express]

22 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

I doubt anything like 40k class 66’s were made, I doubt it was more than 10k.

 

generically, Runs of 100 are not unknown on a livery, Ive even seen a rtr model of a run of just 24… and there was 6 different locos produced at that qty.

 

I agree though it was enlightening that the sale on 47004 didn't move that 22 “in stock” figure… It might not be the price thats the issue, but the “value”… ive any number of Bachmann 47’s, nothing wrong with them, so theres less value to me in the new tooling… but old Hornby 86’s were a poor show and I went whole hearted buying Heljan 86’s at a similar price. Bachmann 24’s are sticking, but SLWs are doing ok…

 

I think the value of the prototype makes more difference than cost, in a market with very low production volumes…but wide variety of choice.

 

I suggest watching the DBSO at £127.. I reckon NR is already long gone for dust before release, but Intercity will stick around… Anglia will do ok.. but if the rest of the Anglia rake appears they will all dissapear…

 

 

 

I know that you followed the figures, so don't wish to sound disrespectful in the slightest.  But a few months ago there were 200+ of the less popular locomotives in DCC.  But all sound and DCC sold out. When they found some more 66513's they found another 50 or 60 units (still kicking myself that I didn't get a couple to renumber!), and alot of the class 66 stock was held in a secondary warehouse.  So expect that there must have been a considerable amount produced.

 

On top of this, how many pre-orders, sound and non sound were there pre sold before anything physically came into stock?  The Class 66 was always going to be a huge seller due to the quantity in service, so I don't think Hattons would have gone for very short runs, especially with the reported vast quantities of pre-orders.  I think that would have encouraged anyone to have thought big, rather than small.

[Torbay Express]

11 minutes ago, ERIC ALLTORQUE said:

I think the game changer for DC or DCC is the fact that sound works on DC now on the latest models from some manufacturers.

After having technical issues with a couple of DCC sounds locomotives after a few seconds on DC (which were supposed to be DC compatible) never risked it again.......  Luckily the locomotives were brand new so sorted under warranty.  Not for the faint hearted.....

[Torbay Express]

Only the other day, someone asked if a photo of their model Class 66 was Bachmann or Hattons.  The owner replied that they wouldn't touch a Hattons one....

 

Heres three..... Sure there must be help available out there for anyone who likes it......

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[andyman7]

2 hours ago, Torbay Express said:

After having technical issues with a couple of DCC sounds locomotives after a few seconds on DC (which were supposed to be DC compatible) never risked it again.......  Luckily the locomotives were brand new so sorted under warranty.  Not for the faint hearted.....

It would be interesting to hear which locos these were. Bachmann are very clear in the publicity for their latest DCC Sound models that they work on DC with the basic sound functionality plus random deployment of other sounds.

[adb968008]

I totally agree, but two assumptions stand out…

1. Each model was made in the same quantity

2. Each model had a similar quantity in DC as DCC, Sound.

 

i don't think there is any evidence of either, but maybe potential exists for the opposite..

 

a. The Sound ones sold out very early on, some were gone before the sale.

b. DCC ones didn't last long in the sale.

c. Several liveries were repetition (with duplicate numbers/ name).

i. if you look over the list, there might be 37 models, but its only 14 base liveries.

ii. just 3… EWS (x7) , GBRF, Freightliner(old) (5 each) make up 17 of those 37.

iii. and only 5 make up one off’s.. Biffa, Cemex, Pink, L/L and G&W.

iv. The rest (15)  are 4 models x 2x loco numbers in the same livery (DB, Colas, Scotsman, Old GBRF), 4x DRS  + 3x Freightliner swoosh

 

The differences to the these is tooling, attached details or tampo printing, but not the base livery (Even EWS Euro is still EWS as a base). 

so lets try a theory… No facts, just guessing…from here…

 

if (big if), liveries like EWS, GBRF, Freightliner etc were made in a larger quantity overall, but divided into different running numbers this could explain why smaller runs of single liveries like G&W, Large Logo etc stuck around longer, but also why some popular liveries sold out by number, not colour early on. G&W itself only stuck as the orange is seen to be wrong and could explain why such a high number stuck for so long… people wide berthed it.

 

For example (also not fact)..lets say…

 

1000 GBRF were made divide by 5 models is 200 each, which may be 100 DC, 50 DCC and 50 Sound on each of 5 different numbers.

 

but large logo / Biffa etc as a unique livery maybe, 350 divided into 200 DC, 75 DCC, 75 Sound.

 

That gives max bang for buck, afterall who buys all 7 EWS, but they may buy 1 plus a large logo etc etc.. but equally the factory will have a minimum for a paint mask, but you are taking a risk thinking EWS is 7x more popular than BIffa, but 350 Biffa looks ok amongst 1400 EWS…

 

I never saw more than 50 or so of any popular livery in the sale, it was only Cemex, Scotsman, Old GBRF, G&W which had higher quantities… disproportionate to all the rest.

 

Using that example, you could end up with c5000 of the big 3, c4500 of the rest and c500 Freightliner swoosh… 10k, not 40k.

Similarly if smaller volumes of dcc/ sound fitted were made, that explains why they sold out faster.

 

one point i’ll draw attention again is G&W,.. its just as wrong in sound as in DC but still Sound long since sold out… I was expecting to see Sound fitted versions dumped, without sound removed by the purchaser, but that hasn't really happened, suggesting them buying them, have kept them… which again points to not a glut, but just enough made.

 

finally… ebay… there just isnt many to support 40k class 66’s… just 1% sold would be 400 models.. I doubt theres been that many in a year… yet things like Bachmanns EWS 47 at 500 made has 8 tonight and 11 sold… thats nearly 3% in 3 months.

Edited March 16, 2022 by adb968008

[rob D2]

I think the Hattons 66 polarised opinion.

 

I wanted a model better than a Bachmann one , but not desperately as it’s a fairly mundane and dull prototype but of course ubiquitous, , but early in decided that the problems meant it was more hassle than it was worth to me .

 

What really put me off though, was the complete radio silence and retreating to complete non communication that occurred when people pointed out the issues. Hattons had been quite vocal before , and then, nothing .

 

I decided if that was indicative of the customer support for the new model, I wasn’t getting involved .

[Pete the Elaner]

8 hours ago, Torbay Express said:

Only the other day, someone asked if a photo of their model Class 66 was Bachmann or Hattons.  The owner replied that they wouldn't touch a Hattons one....

 

 

 

I find that a bit of a strange attitude. Some Hattons 66s may have issues but they have more features to start with & their customer service is excellent & deals with them.

 

It is a bit like saying you would stick with your 140bhp Ford Escort because figures have proved it has 140bhp rather than buy a 300bhp Mercedes because it only actually has 295bhp!

[Lowlander]

2 hours ago, rob D2 said:

I think the Hattons 66 polarised opinion.

 

I wanted a model better than a Bachmann one , but not desperately as it’s a fairly mundane and dull prototype but of course ubiquitous, , but early in decided that the problems meant it was more hassle than it was worth to me .

 

What really put me off though, was the complete radio silence and retreating to complete non communication that occurred when people pointed out the issues. Hattons had been quite vocal before , and then, nothing .

 

I decided if that was indicative of the customer support for the new model, I wasn’t getting involved .

Hi

 

There  was plenty of customer support if you contacted Hattons themselves. Numerous times I've had spare parts sent free to either replace missing or damaged parts. They obviously didn't want to add petrol to the flames by  getting involved in what would have been a roasting on here. Everyone knew there were issues, but at the same time those that bought them could see the overall potential of a cracking model after fixing said minor issues.

 

I do hope Hattons do another run, as to me they are the best model of a Class 66 out there. The space to fit a decent sized speaker is one of the many pluses.

Edited March 17, 2022 by ayrmrg

[Pete the Elaner]

2 hours ago, rob D2 said:

I think the Hattons 66 polarised opinion.

 

I wanted a model better than a Bachmann one , but not desperately as it’s a fairly mundane and dull prototype but of course ubiquitous, , but early in decided that the problems meant it was more hassle than it was worth to me .

 

What really put me off though, was the complete radio silence and retreating to complete non communication that occurred when people pointed out the issues. Hattons had been quite vocal before , and then, nothing .

 

I decided if that was indicative of the customer support for the new model, I wasn’t getting involved .

 

Their customer service have been excellent. It is their pre-sales team who have gone quiet. Maybe they have switched to troubleshooting issues to make the second batch less problematic.

This forum is also typical of many social media platforms; highly toxic. A manufacturer on this thread would feel like someone with a target on their back.

 

I expect to see a second batch & I expect it to have less issues. If you don't want one urgently, just wait for it.

[Torbay Express]

40 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

Their customer service have been excellent. It is their pre-sales team who have gone quiet. Maybe they have switched to troubleshooting issues to make the second batch less problematic.

This forum is also typical of many social media platforms; highly toxic. A manufacturer on this thread would feel like someone with a target on their back.

 

I expect to see a second batch & I expect it to have less issues. If you don't want one urgently, just wait for it.

Yes, agreed.  The product support team have been second to none.  Plus, Hattons are a company, if you have full blown arguments in the public domain it's very unprofessional,and will always lead to a continuous downward spiral and something the business will never win, against self proclaimed experts with egos who believe 200 percent that they are right.  It just adds more fuel to the fire and their ego.....

 

Toxic - even A/S were slated by 1 person for replicating a PFA number in a DRS pack, when they had gone through them all!  How many Bachmann and Hornby wagons do you have with the same number?

[TomScrut]

1 hour ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

I find that a bit of a strange attitude. Some Hattons 66s may have issues but they have more features to start with & their customer service is excellent & deals with them.

 

It is a bit like saying you would stick with your 140bhp Ford Escort because figures have proved it has 140bhp rather than buy a 300bhp Mercedes because it only actually has 295bhp!

 

Yes I think it is a bit strange, I happily bought them and do think they are better than the Bachmann ones. I got to the point where I couldn't be bothered with what was needed to be done on Hattons 66s when they turned up. Whether that be reworking or sending back so didn't buy and then the ones I might have wanted went before I got round to buying. I fancied a DRS one and a FL one, but didn't buy the orange one because of the colour. Hopefully the Bachmann one just out will hang around for a while and I can pick one up on the cheap, I doubt it though.

 

They are great models and I like the 4 I have, but it doesn't stop me buying Bachmann ones if I want that particular 66. I will modify my Bachmann ones to have better lighting anyway, which is still less work than some of the stuff needed on a Hattons one.

[TomScrut]

16 minutes ago, Torbay Express said:

Toxic - even A/S were slated by 1 person for replicating a PFA number in a DRS pack, when they had gone through them all!  How many Bachmann and Hornby wagons do you have with the same number?

 

That was pretty mad really, and as you say Bachmann (and Hornby to an extent) don't tend to duplicate wagon numbers anyway (unless you want to spend 10 years building a rake of 4 wagons)

[Torbay Express]

And then there were none!  No more temptation!  I bet the Hattons gang are celebrating tonite!

 

Thank you Hattons for a really nice model - yes there has been a few bumps along the way, but one of the best models so far in my humble opinion.  (Although trade journalists have also praised it)

 

When you look at when the model was announced in 2018, it was groundbreaking, and when I look at one close up it just looks every bit a Class 66. I am still beyond impressed with them.

 

 

Apart from the odd dodgy one with no power whatsoever, which wouldn't move - has anyone actually managed to get one to slip to a stand on a train?

 

 

[ERIC ALLTORQUE]

Well theres one,lastman standing.....

https://www.hattons.co.uk/stocklist/1484058/1000588/1000635/0/hattons_originals_oo_gauge_1_76_scale_diesel_locos/prodlist

[Torbay Express]

Not when I looked last night (just said is this item in stock - No) and just checked this morning and it would appear that someone last night or early this morning has totally removed all information and nothing at all on the link - that would suggest that there will be no more Class 66s at all for the foreseeable future...... (Unless they get a warehouse find or get a faulty return.....)

 

 

Expect a faulty 66623 Pre-owned and possibly the odd other one will turn up sometime or another, otherwise it's e-bay and second hand.....

 

 

[Colin_McLeod]

Well done Hattons.

 

That was quite a project and quite a story.

[adb968008]

Just shy of 4 years from announcement to sell out.

May 2018 announced

December 2019 arrived.

 

then 11 months later this happened…
 

On 19/11/2020 at 10:02, classy52 said:

Just a heads up everyone Hattons have greatly reduced their DCC Ready Class 66 prices on new models from £150 down to a starting price of £119...absolute bargain on these!

In addition it appears their used prices have also been reduced further as well.

 

and it took 1 year 4 months to clear them all.

 

well done Hattons.

[Torbay Express]

41 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Just shy of 4 years from announcement to sell out.

May 2018 announced

December 2019 arrived.

 

then 11 months later this happened…
 

 

and it took 1 year 4 months to clear them all.

 

well done Hattons.

 

Well done those such as yourself, who have a fleet.  I take it DB, GB & DRS know who to call when they have a traction shortage.......

[Torbay Express]

 

3 hours ago, Torbay Express said:

 

Well done those such as yourself, who have a fleet.  I take it DB, GB & DRS know who to call when they have a traction shortage.......

It makes you laugh that in their pre-owned listings, they have sold lesser second hand Class 66's for more than £119....

 

Edited March 19, 2022 by Torbay Express
Duplication