RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted September 23, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 23, 2022 21 hours ago, Torbay Express said: Dragging a weighty Hattons Class 66 may be quite a brave thing, unless you have very gentle curves, plus don't recall Autoballasters being a very heavy model (of course always possible to add loads). Probably won'propell very well either. But best of luck..... dragging a kg lump of deadweight at the back of an engineers train on a curve on your layout may come with a health warning, if the coupling itself hasnt come out before hand. Doubleheading though should be easy enough. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted September 23, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 23, 2022 I thought I’d give an update on fixing motors, ive done 3 tonight… all the exact same issue. first breaking in… Unclip each cab foot step “pipes” protuding the chassis and bending upwards to the bodyshell under each drivers cab door.. there are two either side of the foot step, and the whole thing is a complete unit glued to the body. (if anyone in product development is hearing this… reverse it, glue the pipes / steps to the chassis not the body on future product runs). To remove the body, there is 4 retaining lugs on the body shell. Each is located, by the rear of each bogie (towards the centre by the fuel tank) . To remove body,. DON’T grab it by the fuel tank or the bogie…. thats exactly why there are so many demics on Hattons site with unclipped bogies or broken fuel tanks… instead: Put the model upside down in a cradle. i put 4 hotel keys in between body and bogie to separate at each of the 4 lugs. Hold the frame/bufferbeam assembly at the side of the cab end, and very slowly lift it away (it will just come apart ) BUT watch those pipes/footsteps for snagging on the frame as the body comes off.. this bit is ugly but theres no getting around it but gently/slowly. (Note i’m holding by the drivers cab, and the side of the airdam) Once inside getting to the motor means undoing the board (2 screws diagonally opposite), (circled in blue) and removing a wiring holders (1 right next to the board). This gives some wiggle room to lift the board and tilt it sideways. I unsolder M- and M+ joints, (circled in yellow) centre of the board, left and right.. this disconnects the motor, I mark the motor or the board with red to make sure my motor goes back correctly, to the right side with the red wire. Turn the board sideways, unscrew the motor harnesses (2 harnesses, either side of the motor) .. really dont lose these or the screws ! lift out the motor, and let the party begin… First remove the plastic drive shaft holders (pull out with plyers, there are softly friction fitted) Secondly remove the fly wheels.. (This Guitar string puller is a nice tool for friction removing flywheels) https://www.amazon.co.uk/Acoustic-Remover-Strings-Extractor-Accessories/ Wedge it off, its not on too hard… just avoid it pinging into the ether..its quite a heavy brass projectile ! At the end of the motor is two retaining lugs, using a screw driver prize them open… pull out the shaft from the plastic end, and low and behold the fault will be revealed… (A quick guide to a motor here) https://www.motioncontroltips.com/faq-what-is-the-commutator-in-a-dc-motor/ essentially the motor used in most of our models today is nothing more than a 5 pole version of Hornbys X04 motor from the 1950’s.. its just made ready installed inside a can, to protect it from dust, handling, throwing around a room etc… as you see on these two examples, never since it was made has either motor ever worked…. The brushes are not even close to the hole of the shaft… so what chance have they ever got touching the commutator ? so one twist with the screwdriver to loosen it, recentre each one, so the brushes meet over the hole, and retighten the screw.. ive found some models have been unsteady/intermittent runners, or simply slowed and stopped over time.. thats also a sign of the same fault, whats happening is part of the brush is touching the commutator.. and as its wears, it loses contact and eventually stops. put the armature assembly back into the hole of the plastic end, gently use a screwdriver to nudge out the brushes and slide onto the commutator. hold the protruding end of the shaft, tightly and slide back into the can and refit. Dont hold the plastic case, as the magnet in the can is quite strong and your armature will fly out of the plastic case into the can, and off those brushes. give your motor a test, dont be put off if first time it doesnt go, first couple I did, I had to revert back and check the brushes hadnt slipped, or in one case bent on the commutator.. just reseat and try again. I purposely bought a number of none runners in the past sell outs, whilst theres chances of other faults (such as broken DCC chips, or even that GBRF one person bought to find nothing inside the body!) , so far all the DCC ready ones where the lights worked, but nothing moved, ive traced to the same fault with the motor. 2 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Bucoops Posted September 24, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 24, 2022 6 hours ago, adb968008 said: as you see on these two examples, never since it was made has either motor ever worked…. The brushes are not even close to the hole of the shaft… so what chance have they ever got touching the commutator ? At first I thought the one on the right had a heavily worn brush but now I see it's bent downwards. Is it just me or is that method of brush mounting REALLY bad? Would it really have cost much more to use the tried and tested method of round brushes in a bore with a spring behind them? Although I think Mashima used similar shaped brushes and they seem ok. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowlander Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 Just saw this. It'll be a help to many. 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 On 23/09/2022 at 18:08, adb968008 said: On page 166.. short cut here Edit.. looks like the link broke, maybe @Pete the Elaner can repost ? Sorry, I've only just seen this. 66 axle covers 2 scale.stl 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 On 23/09/2022 at 12:33, curlypaws said: @JohnC thanks for the really useful guide - you couldn't point me towards these 3D prints could you please? If you're going to the Great Electric Train show, I'll be there on a stand all weekend. I intend to bring a small tub of these with me, but even if I forget, I live close enough to walk home & get them. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieGuyRob Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 16 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said: If you're going to the Great Electric Train show, I'll be there on a stand all weekend. I intend to bring a small tub of these with me, but even if I forget, I live close enough to walk home & get them. Which stand will it be? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 45 minutes ago, PieGuyRob said: Which stand will it be? OO gauge Association stand. I believe we will be on the 1st floor balcony. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowlander Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 More Hattons 66's have appeared on the Hattons shop site. The least said about the pricing the better. The descriptions also leave a lot to be desired. ie Sound fitted in one sentence and on the next Sound and speaker removed. A poor all round effort from Hattons in my opinion. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieGuyRob Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 The pricing doesn't seem to reflect the condition that the loco's are in, or make any kind of sense. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium curlypaws Posted October 4, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 4, 2022 Having picked up a Freightliner liveried 66 which now runs beautifully after some minor fettling, does anyone have any suggestions for what might work to replace a missing grille? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowlander Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 The Bachmann spares website has a roof grill available for £2. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted October 4, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 4, 2022 (edited) Two different types of roof grills, depending on which number youve got.. one is much larger than the other… The Bachmann smaller sized grill is exact same size and shape (see the separate one on my laptop), but you do need to trim off the lugs (good scissors are enough for mine). I dont have an example of a larger type Bachmann grill to compare. After trimming, it starts to look like this … (not glued it down yet as ive not yet decieded if Biffa will live again or become spares to my others !, it was the £73 one last week). Edited October 4, 2022 by adb968008 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted October 4, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 4, 2022 (edited) On 24/09/2022 at 07:28, Bucoops said: At first I thought the one on the right had a heavily worn brush but now I see it's bent downwards. Is it just me or is that method of brush mounting REALLY bad? Would it really have cost much more to use the tried and tested method of round brushes in a bore with a spring behind them? To be fair, I think its just a bad batch, where who ever assembled them wasnt fully aware. This motor in the Hattons 66 is used in several models, and Ive never heard complaints before.. I found this exact spec motor in the Hornby 87 the other day, only difference is the choice of fly wheels. Theres a few other similarities under that hood. I never heard a bad word about the 87’s performance. Edited October 4, 2022 by adb968008 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted October 4, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 4, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, PieGuyRob said: The pricing doesn't seem to reflect the condition that the loco's are in, or make any kind of sense. Quite, a sound fitted loco, without sound and decoder is probably a more risky proposition than a DCC ready one, as will it need the class 66 DCC blanking chip ? Yet are priced as if they were still Sound. I have noticed the “PO” numbers are getting quite high for some of these… 66789 is upto PO63 66623 is upto PO42 Biffa and Patriot are towards 20. nearly 200 listed in the last few weeks. looking through those models reminds me of walking around Barry Scrapyard or Reddish Depot with its 76’s. This one makes me laugh (no liverpool jokes please)... Seems a bit extreme at £152.… Embedded URL link to this item..https://www.hattons.co.uk/979713/hattons_originals_h4_66_005_s_po01_class_66_66088_in_ews_livery_with_db_branding_pre_owned_sold_as_seen_non_runn/stockdetail Ive noticed several are on swapped chassis, GBRF with Freightliner bufferbeams etc.. Most of whats left will need a multiple purchase to make a runner, I myself bought a number of damaged ones a few years ago and have used a 66743 as a Christmas tree to fix them, and just bought Biffa, 2x Pink’s and a Freightliner one last week as I think I can make 3 out of 4 whole again. I’d sell the Pink 2 and keep the FL I want and still be cost neutral with a bucket of Biffa bits left over to join my 66743 as I chew through the rest of my pile. looking through the list I can definitely identify a dozen restorable candidates, but these here are a bit more expensive and a lot more ropey. But is the juice worth the squeeze, buy 2, spend £250 on the pair, put in a bit of effort to make a good one and have a pile of spares… or just buy a good used one on ebay for £180-200 ? Edited October 4, 2022 by adb968008 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium curlypaws Posted October 4, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 4, 2022 (edited) Sorry, I should have explained that it is the side grille cover at the exhaust (no.1) end that I'm looking for. Probably a bit trickier. I bit the bullet and found a donor which has the plus point of the same paint finish. Will keep the rest of it as a spares source for our other Class 66s. But not one at £152! Edited October 4, 2022 by curlypaws Splashed out on a donor. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonC Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 23 minutes ago, adb968008 said: Quite, a sound fitted loco, without sound and decoder is probably a more risky proposition than a DCC ready one, as will it need the class 66 DCC blanking chip ? Yet are priced as if they were still Sound. I have noticed the “PO” numbers are getting quite high for some of these… 66789 is upto PO63 66623 is upto PO42 Biffa and Patriot are towards 20. yet when I look at sound ones they seem very low numbered, were there nothing wrong with these or were buyers less fussy ? looking through those models reminds me of walking around Barry Scrapyard or Reddish Depot with its 76’s. This one makes me laugh (no liverpool jokes please)... Seems a bit extreme at £152.… Embedded URL link to this item..https://www.hattons.co.uk/979713/hattons_originals_h4_66_005_s_po01_class_66_66088_in_ews_livery_with_db_branding_pre_owned_sold_as_seen_non_runn/stockdetail Ive noticed several are on swapped chassis, GBRF with Freightliner bufferbeams etc.. But nearly 200 listed in the last few weeks. Most of whats left will need a multiple purchase to make a runner, I myself bought a number of damaged ones a few years ago and have used a 66743 as a Christmas tree to fix them, and just bought Biffa, 2x Pink’s and a Freightliner one last week as I think I can make 3 out of 4 whole again, and sell 2 of the other 3 to keep the one I want and be cost neutral. Quite a lot can still be ressurected, though the part in shortest supply isnt the axleboxes, but the cab steps at this point. £152 for that is a disgrace. 'bogies loose' it the description ... bit of an understatement 1 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCML100 Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 as much as I am after an EWS or DB version of the hattons 66, I'm not willing to pay those kind of prices for the conditions these ones seem to be in... 2 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Bucoops Posted October 5, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 5, 2022 12 hours ago, adb968008 said: To be fair, I think its just a bad batch, where who ever assembled them wasnt fully aware. This motor in the Hattons 66 is used in several models, and Ive never heard complaints before.. I found this exact spec motor in the Hornby 87 the other day, only difference is the choice of fly wheels. Theres a few other similarities under that hood. I never heard a bad word about the 87’s performance. I opened up a Mashima last week that I managed to get loctite into the bearing instead of just the worm - it has a similar arrangement BUT the big difference is the tag that extends to the outside of the motor to attach the wires is arranged in such a way that it is impossible for the brush holder to rotate unlike the ones in the 66s. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted October 5, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 5, 2022 4 minutes ago, Bucoops said: I managed to get loctite into the bearing instead of just the worm How did that end ? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Bucoops Posted October 5, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 5, 2022 1 hour ago, adb968008 said: How did that end ? All sorted :) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted October 5, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 5, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Bucoops said: All sorted :) I’m trying to get a worm off a Bachmann motor, its broken two different types of worm puller so far. Using the guitar string tighteners its taking more strength than I have… Edited October 5, 2022 by adb968008 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Bucoops Posted October 5, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 5, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, adb968008 said: I’m trying to get a worm off a Bachmann motor, its broken two different types of worm puller so far. Using the guitar string tighteners its taking more strength than I have… Any idea what holds it on? Warming the worm up might release any loctite sort of thing, or expand the worm enough to be able to remove it. However there's the risk of cooking the motor of course. I use loctite 242 - which is a medium strength retainer. Two reasons - 1) If (when) I stuff it up, it's easily removable, and 2) If things get locked up, the motor may break the bond rather than burn itself out. Edited October 5, 2022 by Bucoops Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowlander Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 More extortionate scrappers on tonight. 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieGuyRob Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Lowlander said: More extortionate scrappers on tonight. Thanks, I will take a look in a while! Edited October 5, 2022 by PieGuyRob Spelling mistake Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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