Class 66 in OO Gauge - New Announcement

[norfolkchinaclay]

Can you imagine what will happen to this thread if/when they do announce some more, it’s already at 218 pages…

 

If someone else takes on their tooling at least it will be a new thread.

[ERIC ALLTORQUE]

On 20/07/2022 at 16:41, norfolkchinaclay said:

Can you imagine what will happen to this thread if/when they do announce some more, it’s already at 218 pages…

 

If someone else takes on their tooling at least it will be a new thread.

Hopefully the Carsberg of model railways........would be nice to see it Accurascaled.

Theres a new freightliner patriot on the bay if anyone wants a one,try an offer as its a lot more than they started life but sign of the times

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/385032678935?hash=item59a5bc6e17:g:ar0AAOSwMBli48UJ

[TravisM]

I'm not one to spread gossip as 90% of it tends to be b******t but I was at one of my favourite model shops whom I won't mention, but the owner seems to very much have his finger on the pulse, told me that he'd heard that Hatton's had sold the Class 66 tooling because of the delays, issues and poor feedback, hence no further announcements.  I'll admit his is not the first time I'd heard this because we all know what the jungle drums are like, but this time it got my attention.

 

I really hope it's not true and but now that I've written this, I really hope that Hatton's issue another big fanfare announcement telling us all of a future release of Class 66's in 32 different liveries, just to make me look stupid 😳🤔

[newbryford]

5 minutes ago, jools1959 said:

I'm not one to spread gossip as 90% of it tends to be b******t but I was at one of my favourite model shops whom I won't mention, but the owner seems to very much have his finger on the pulse, told me that he'd heard that Hatton's had sold the Class 66 tooling because of the delays, issues and poor feedback, hence no further announcements.  I'll admit his is not the first time I'd heard this because we all know what the jungle drums are like, but this time it got my attention.

 

I really hope it's not true and but now that I've written this, I really hope that Hatton's issue another big fanfare announcement telling us all of a future release of Class 66's in 32 different liveries, just to make me look stupid 😳🤔

 

Should it turn out to be reality, what's the problem?

No-one is likely to buy the tools unless they intend to make another run of them.

[Br60066]

32 minutes ago, newbryford said:

 

Should it turn out to be reality, what's the problem?

No-one is likely to buy the tools unless they intend to make another run of them.

Any reports of a 45 gallon drum fire out back of Bachmann HQ? :P

Edited August 15, 2022 by Br60066

[Tony Walker]

11 hours ago, Br60066 said:

Any reports of a 45 gallon drum fire out back of Bachmann HQ? :P

 

Surely they would be getting rid of their original tooling and hopefully sorting out the rotating axle boxes.

[scottrains29]

24 minutes ago, Tony Walker said:

 

Surely they would be getting rid of their original tooling

I assumed that's what he meant. The Bachmann model is well past it's sell-by date and should be retired. It still has painted-on sidelights!!

 

The Hattons model is far superior in every way once the few (easily fixable) issues are sorted.

[andyman7]

On 06/07/2022 at 09:41, Torbay Express said:

I think that the main thing with DCC is how technically advanced you want to go. Clearly you can do much more than just run a train.  I think it is changing CVs that frightens some people. 

 

Loathe to use DCC sound on DC controller though, as in the past it blew two sound chips - one Hornby, one Bachmann!  Whether it's something with an HM2000?  

 

I've too large and diverse a fleet to go fully sound but have owned sound models since the early 2000s and have a layout that can be operated using DC or DCC. My original sound purchases were German outline as RTR DCC sound appeared on the continent first, before any GB outline models were so equipped. Right away the magical possibilities were obvious. In those early days, much was said about being able to run on DC albeit with loss of functionality; then the general advice became to avoid it, and indeed to disable DCC running. However, both Bachmann and Accurascale promote their DCC sound models as working on DC, and indeed the latest Bachmann SF/SFX ones don't just work on DC but (within the limitations of the techology) provide a very substantial experience. I assume therefore that the decoders are hopefully more resilient in DC mode; it's certainly useful from my perspective to have models set up for 'dual running'.

[TravisM]

17 hours ago, newbryford said:

 

Should it turn out to be reality, what's the problem?

No-one is likely to buy the tools unless they intend to make another run of them.

 

I never said it was a problem as business, is business.  If Hatton's have sold the tooling for a good price and come away smelling of roses, then I say good for them and probably a sound decision, but who would be in the market to buy?  It really only leaves two as I don't think the others are in a financial position (yet) to layout out that kind of expenditure with their own projects running, but lets wait and see.  I truly hope that Hatton's make an announcement soon regarding a second run.

[martin_l_jones]

There are so many liveries that could have potential sales that have not been produced yet I'm surprised that no progress on any tooling mods or changes has been announced.

 

Would anybody really want to buy another customers tools , it would probably define the manufacturing facility as the tools are probably not that interchangeable between plastic injection production machines... 

[amwells]

3 hours ago, martin_l_jones said:

Would anybody really want to buy another customers tools , it would probably define the manufacturing facility as the tools are probably not that interchangeable between plastic injection production machines... 

Kernow purchased various tools that were in the DJM stable, and then runs appeared in the EFE Rail brand from Bachmann, so there is precedent…

[PieGuyRob]

1 hour ago, amwells said:

Kernow purchased various tools that were in the DJM stable, and then runs appeared in the EFE Rail brand from Bachmann, so there is precedent…

Didn't they purchase toolings they collaborated on?

[spamcan61]

33 minutes ago, PieGuyRob said:

Didn't they purchase toolings they collaborated on?

I thought the situation was Kernow always owned the tooling, DJM were commissioned to "design" it.

[Matt]

Not sure for some tools but the SPA wagon wasn’t a Kernow commission- I believe was Hugh Flynn’s FTG models with some help from DJM - tooling sold to Kernow and releases under their brand before now being released under EFE brand

[amwells]

9 hours ago, spamcan61 said:

I thought the situation was Kernow always owned the tooling, DJM were commissioned to "design" it.

I wasn’t referring to those items (ie the Well Tank, O2, JIA, PBA or gate stock).

 

I was more thinking of the OO J94, the N shark, mermaid and 17. Presumably made in the same factory and a deal done directly given that (as I understand) DJM never owned any of the tooling. 
 

who knows where the OO 71 ended up but can’t imagine there’s much capacity in the market for more of them!

[TomScrut]

15 hours ago, martin_l_jones said:

it would probably define the manufacturing facility as the tools are probably not that interchangeable between plastic injection production machines..

 

Yes I was wondering about that, as far as I am aware it is normally specific to the type of machine and so is potentially difficult to change manufacturing location.

 

Saying that, it would be fair to expect that if they have sold the tooling, it would be for a significant amount less than what new tooling could be bought for and therefore offset the choice of factory being made already.

[Bucoops]

48 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

Yes I was wondering about that, as far as I am aware it is normally specific to the type of machine and so is potentially difficult to change manufacturing location.

 

Saying that, it would be fair to expect that if they have sold the tooling, it would be for a significant amount less than what new tooling could be bought for and therefore offset the choice of factory being made already.

 

Also the original factory will be familiar with all parts of the process, not just the moulding so that would be a positive.

 

However, I'm not sure how much to read into this rumour - and so far that's all it is.

[mdvle]

On 16/08/2022 at 11:55, martin_l_jones said:

Would anybody really want to buy another customers tools , it would probably define the manufacturing facility as the tools are probably not that interchangeable between plastic injection production machines... 

 

The selling of tooling certainly happens and there are at least 2 examples in the recent past over in the US market.

[ERIC ALLTORQUE]

Considering the 66 is the modern railway and as stated this is the most up to date model variant i would think who ever has the tooling is onto a winner as they are named and rebranded so plenty to go at once its up and running,lets hope its the modellers model maker so the price is good and the rotating axle ends work,guess it will come out in the wash at some point whats happening and from who.

[Torbay Express]

On 16/08/2022 at 10:02, andyman7 said:

I've too large and diverse a fleet to go fully sound but have owned sound models since the early 2000s and have a layout that can be operated using DC or DCC. My original sound purchases were German outline as RTR DCC sound appeared on the continent first, before any GB outline models were so equipped. Right away the magical possibilities were obvious. In those early days, much was said about being able to run on DC albeit with loss of functionality; then the general advice became to avoid it, and indeed to disable DCC running. However, both Bachmann and Accurascale promote their DCC sound models as working on DC, and indeed the latest Bachmann SF/SFX ones don't just work on DC but (within the limitations of the techology) provide a very substantial experience. I assume therefore that the decoders are hopefully more resilient in DC mode; it's certainly useful from my perspective to have models set up for 'dual running'.

Yes, it is and can be nice.  But it's a risk and expensive gamble if one goes pop! Unless loco manufacturers/dcc decoder manufacturers test and say its compatible it's possibly expensive! Or controller manufacturers give a spec as to what a chip needs to be rated at......   At a guess too many variables.   Then of course issues such as short circuits etc.. Pays your money, takes your chance is never so true! 

[Torbay Express]

Oh and of course the Hattons Class 66 is the smoothest running loco I currently own, and crawls even on train set controllers - you certainly do not need Dcc to get them to run with good controllability, with most ex-trainset controllers being OK in my experience, except some Hornby make the lights illuminate incorrectly, and on the very latest you can only double head for a couple of seconds before it trips and quits!

 

Based on Bachmann doing the Class 47 & Class 37 after other manufacturers producing new models-wonder if a 66 is in store? I had one of the latest Class 47s (47004 did the mule once), but it does not perform as well as Hattons Class 66!

[nightstar.train]

Bear in mind that now days no one actually owns a factory out in China, they subcontract them. So i expect that when you talk of "selling the tooling" what actually happens is the factory writes a new name on the box and updates their address book. The actual physical tool stays where it is and if used again will be used by the same factory. 

[TomScrut]

1 hour ago, nightstar.train said:

Bear in mind that now days no one actually owns a factory out in China, they subcontract them. So i expect that when you talk of "selling the tooling" what actually happens is the factory writes a new name on the box and updates their address book. The actual physical tool stays where it is and if used again will be used by the same factory. 

 

I think that is probably the case.

 

I expect the tooling isn't easily transferrable from one factory to another, as I think they'll be machine specific so unless somebody has the same kind of machinery then it won't be a lot of use.

 

Edit, looks like they can be adapted to suit if not suitable 

 

https://www.toolcraft.co.uk/plastic-injection-moulding/tool-transfer/plastic-injection-moulder-uk-mould-tool-transfer-reshoring.htm

 

Likewise whilst ownership will entitle the owner to possess the tooling if they so wanted, in reality why would they?

Edited August 25, 2022 by TomScrut

[newbryford]

18 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

I think that is probably the case.

 

I expect the tooling isn't easily transferrable from one factory to another, as I think they'll be machine specific so unless somebody has the same kind of machinery then it won't be a lot of use.

 

 

Some factories make models for more than one model railway brand name..........

And some brand names use multiple factories.

 

If brand name B wanted to take on brand name A's tooling that were made at factory X, then Brand B simply buys the tooling (or the rights to it) and places the order with factory X.

(Provided that the commercial figures stack up.)

 

Look what has happened with Heljan stuff, now coming under the EFE (Bachmann) brand for example.

 

However  - I'm sure its a bit more complicated than my simplistic meandering.

 

 

 

[TomScrut]

8 hours ago, newbryford said:

Some factories make models for more than one model railway brand name..........

And some brand names use multiple factories.

 

Yes I get that, but everyone won't use every factory I don't think? So there will still be the potential need to transfer tools if and when they are sold.