Class 66 in OO Gauge - New Announcement

[PieGuyRob]

Hoe do they justify selling a sound fitted example, which has had the speaker and decoder removed, and, has issues for more than a DCC ready one cost brand new, when that is effectively what you are getting? In my own opinion, non of them should be over £150, that being the price of a brand new DCC ready version. I'm obviously missing something. Sorry rant over.

[Free At Last]

2 hours ago, PieGuyRob said:

Hoe do they justify selling a sound fitted example, which has had the speaker and decoder removed, and, has issues for more than a DCC ready one cost brand new, when that is effectively what you are getting? In my own opinion, non of them should be over £150, that being the price of a brand new DCC ready version. I'm obviously missing something. Sorry rant over.

Because they know there are mugs out there.

[curlypaws]

1 hour ago, Free At Last said:

Because they know there are mugs out there.

 

But some of them have very good boxes... 😉

[PieGuyRob]

28 minutes ago, curlypaws said:

 

But some of them have very good boxes... 😉

In some cases the box is in better condition than the contents!

[Pmorgancym]

On 05/10/2022 at 18:33, Lowlander said:

More extortionate scrappers on tonight. 

I wonder if this is a ploy for a 2nd batch with a new price...

 

[rob D2]

What a pile of junk ,

Is the hattons pre owned department hearing messages from outer space ?

[adb968008]

You have to wonder how many more there are out there…..

Nearly 200 in 2 weeks listed.

 

I looked back over my past purchases in 2020/21 last night to put into perspective..

 

Class 66 66623 in Freightliner/G&W orange livery - Pre-owned - one buffer detached (included) - like new box - £83

 

I bought a ton like this, in expectation the junkyard would appear, I didnt think the junk would be more expensive… 

 

i’m just sacrificing one of my write offs to fix them up a 66743 but perhaps this one, was the worst of my lot…

 

Class 66 66847 in Colas Rail Freight livery - Pre-owned - very wobbly runner - missing two axle boxes, two buffers - good box that one set me back £79…

 

Weve travelled a long way from Kansas.

 

Feels very much like the rundown of a real class… You start out full, then theres a mass cull, the fleet continues a slow rundown and in the end the last of your best is worse than what you were getting rid of in the begining.

 

 

Edited October 7, 2022 by adb968008

[Matt]

It might seem a lot but Hatton must have had thousands made - 37 variants I believe and who know how many of each. On that basis the returns rate might have not been that bad?  I guess only Hattons will know the stats but from my own experience - my 14 had nothing beyond a few easily fixed faults (mostly axle boxes).

 

as regards these prices? I’m not tempted but judging by the reducing numbers available, they have been selling so the price must be right for some.  And if the prices are high, I’m sure they will get dropped over time to shift.  There are many (including me) hoping new batches will be announced and as such it is good for us if Hattons recovers some value from their returned stock to fund future endeavours.

 

M

[YesTor]

On 05/10/2022 at 20:12, PieGuyRob said:

In my own opinion, non of them should be over £150, that being the price of a brand new DCC ready version. I'm obviously missing something. Sorry rant over.

 

7 hours ago, The Black Prince said:

Some of the latest used prices are odd and I do wonder if there's logic to it or just random 

 

Simple demand and supply economics: 

 

It seems reasonable to estimate that these are likely the last of the bunch.

Secondly, there is only one unit of each unique item.

Lastly, the last time I looked, auction site prices showed that some are willing to pay circa £200 for a single 66. 

 

Hatton's have clearly offloaded the bulk of the production run at highly-reduced prices (close to cost price perhaps?), so no one can say they haven't had chance to snap up a bargain.  So why shouldn't Hattons try and recoup a little on the last lot?  And if they don't sell at those prices it's hardly excruciating at this stage to 'reduce to clear', if and when necessary...

 

Al

[PieGuyRob]

But they are broken.

[YesTor]

33 minutes ago, PieGuyRob said:

But they are broken.

 

Then don't buy them, no one is twisting your arm... 

[ERIC ALLTORQUE]

With the decoder and speaker removed the only thing your buying is a sound fitted sticker on the box, i dont see why they value them as high as they pillaged wreckage they have left it seems.

[PieGuyRob]

3 hours ago, ERIC ALLTORQUE said:

With the decoder and speaker removed the only thing your buying is a sound fitted sticker on the box, i dont see why they value them as high as they pillaged wreckage they have left it seems.

That is the point I and others have made a rew posts ago.

[YesTor]

11 hours ago, The Black Prince said:

Given what has been said by Hatton's here, I'm not sure "the bulk of the production run" being discounted is a fair estimate, there was only a handful of liveries that didn't sell that well and I'm sure that's factored in when you're producing as many livery options as they did. 

 

They all use the same 6 axles, bogies, motors and PCBs - which I would guess before assembly are the most expensive parts so perhaps on an economies of scale, whilst this was a mammoth project the unit cost may not have been that close to £150. 

 

The entire range (except one example, GBRf 66756) was slashed in price from £150 to circa £119 (that's a hefty 20% reduction in price - I highly doubt that Hattons envisaged that they would be doing this at the beginning of the project), and some examples had several hundred remaining in stock at that time - I remember having purchased a fair few myself. 

 

Either way, its virtually a moot point as to whether these were sold at a loss, or close to cost, or with a small profit margin - the real point is that there was clearly a far lesser chunk of profit made than what would have been anticipated, which by itself would have been a significant factor in assessing as to whether the project would be deemed a 'success', or otherwise...

 

Best

Al

 

 

Edited October 9, 2022 by YesTor

[PieGuyRob]

11 minutes ago, YesTor said:

 

The entire range (except one example, GBRf 66756) was slashed in price from £150 to circa £119 (that's a hefty 20% reduction in price - I highly doubt that Hattons envisaged that they would be doing this at the beginning of the project), and some examples had several hundred remaining in stock at that time - I remember having purchased a fair few myself.  Either way, its virtually a moot point as to whether these were sold at a loss, or close to cost, or with a small profit margin - the real point is that there was clearly a far lesser chunk of profit made than what would have been anticipated, which by itself would have been a significant factor in assessing as to whether the project would be deemed a 'success', or otherwise...

 

Best

Al

 

 

But, the samples they have for sale are non-running wrecks, which have had their decoders and speakers removed, yet priced as sound fitted examples. They are not. The price doesn't match what you are getting.

[YesTor]

@PieGuyRob  With all due respect, my response was to the point that @The Black Prince was making regarding the reductions on the main range some months ago, nothing to do with the current offerings. 

 

I appreciate what you might be saying regarding these latter examples appearing broken, overpriced etc, and to many that will be true.  However, the fact remains that they are now the only examples on sale and will command whatever price the market dictates, be that below or above the original retail price.  Pure economics.

 

I'm pretty sure that if Hattons have the pricing 'wrong' and the models are still there in a few months time then the prices will come down to reflect this.  But still, bearing in mind that there were something in excess of 110 models available a week or so ago, and now there are just 50 remaining kind of suggests that they perhaps aren't too far wrong in their judgement?

 

Edited October 9, 2022 by YesTor

[PieGuyRob]

35 minutes ago, YesTor said:

@PieGuyRob  With all due respect, my response was to the point that @The Black Prince was making regarding the reductions on the main range some months ago, nothing to do with the current offerings. 

 

I appreciate what you might be saying regarding these latter examples appearing broken, overpriced etc, and to many that will be true.  However, the fact remains that they are now the only examples on sale and will command whatever price the market dictates, be that below or above the original retail price.  Pure economics.

 

I'm pretty sure that if Hattons have the pricing 'wrong' and the models are still there in a few months time then the prices will come down to reflect this.  But still, bearing in mind that there were something in excess of 110 models available a week or so ago, and now there are just 50 remaining kind of suggests that they perhaps aren't too far wrong in their judgement?

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/979713/hattons_originals_h4_66_005_s_po01_class_66_66088_in_ews_livery_with_db_branding_pre_owned_sold_as_seen_non_runn/stockdetail

 

So that represents value for money to you?

Edited October 9, 2022 by PieGuyRob
It has a very good box

[YesTor]

12 hours ago, PieGuyRob said:

https://www.hattons.co.uk/979713/hattons_originals_h4_66_005_s_po01_class_66_66088_in_ews_livery_with_db_branding_pre_owned_sold_as_seen_non_runn/stockdetail

 

So that represents value for money to you?

 

To me?  At this moment in time?  No.  But I'm not sure that you are looking at it in the same way that I might be.  Perhaps stop viewing it as a fully-working model and instead see it as a spares donor? 

 

eg.  There may well be someone out there for example, that craves an EWS liveried 66, who can simply flip that bodyshell onto a working chassis that they might already own.  They will then be left with a 'spare' bodyshell, that I'm sure they'd have no trouble moving on for £70+ and thus recouping some of their initial outlay. 

 

You then also have a set of spares (bogies, fuel tank etc), that could easily be utilised on other projects - there are numerous 66s that haven't been covered that require different bodyshells paired with different fuel tanks etc.  It's not always about the model as a a whole.   

 

I would agree that the description of some, eg...  https://www.hattons.co.uk/977697/hattons_originals_h4_66_002_s_po03_class_66_66079_in_ews_livery_james_nightall_g_c__sound_fitted_pre_owned_decod/stockdetail as "Sound Fitted - Pre-owned - Decoder and speaker removed" is more than a little ambiguous, so if I were seriously interested I'd likely give Hattons a call and ask someone to clarify exactly what it is they are selling and decide from thereon if I wanted to make the purchase. 

 

Either way, it beats squabbling on forums over pricing.  If something seems overpriced, get on the phone and make an offer, at worst they can only say "No"?  🤩

 

Al

Edited October 9, 2022 by YesTor

[ERIC ALLTORQUE]

The pricing is just silly and i guess they are just hoping to clear space in the stockroom if the moulds have been sold and it draws a line under it for them.

Time will tell and as with e bay,no ones making you buy it,leave it on the shelf if its not for you,drink does funny things late at night while you browse the internet with a credit card in hand..........and they all have good boxes........

Edited October 9, 2022 by ERIC ALLTORQUE

[adb968008]

On 09/10/2022 at 02:07, YesTor said:

 

To me?  At this moment in time?  No.  But I'm not sure that you are looking at it in the same way that I might be.  Perhaps stop viewing it as a fully-working model and instead see it as a spares donor? 

 

eg.  There may well be someone out there for example, that craves an EWS liveried 66, who can simply flip that bodyshell onto a working chassis that they might already own.  They will then be left with a 'spare' bodyshell, that I'm sure they'd have no trouble moving on for £70+ and thus recouping some of their initial outlay. 

 

 

requires understanding of the various combinations  of chassis and buffer beam combinations.

There is an EWS one on a GBRF chassis, whilst a GBRF one is on an EWS chassis in Hattons pile, though to make both good would need a 3rd EWS one and a G&W one for parts… so £500 outlay would get you a good EWS, GBRF and an acceptable EWS one, and a pile of parts… ebay would get you that for less £, and no effort fixing it.

 

On 09/10/2022 at 02:07, YesTor said:

You then also have a set of spares (bogies, fuel tank etc), that could easily be utilised on other projects - there are numerous 66s that haven't been covered that require different bodyshells paired with different fuel tanks etc.  It's not always about the model as a a whole.   

 

I would agree that the description of some, eg...  https://www.hattons.co.uk/977697/hattons_originals_h4_66_002_s_po03_class_66_66079_in_ews_livery_james_nightall_g_c__sound_fitted_pre_owned_decod/stockdetail as "Sound Fitted - Pre-owned - Decoder and speaker removed" is more than a little ambiguous, so if I were seriously interested I'd likely give Hattons a call and ask someone to clarify exactly what it is they are selling and decide from thereon if I wanted to make the purchase. 
 

 

In addition to the example quoted, its missing 3 sets of cab steps.

 

On 09/10/2022 at 02:07, YesTor said:

 

Either way, it beats squabbling on forums over pricing.  If something seems overpriced, get on the phone and make an offer, at worst they can only say "No"?  🤩

But you need to spend £120+ to get one with all its grills, steps.
As a spares donor, the G&W ones look most complete.

Edited October 11, 2022 by adb968008

[YesTor]

18 hours ago, adb968008 said:

requires understanding of the various combinations  of chassis and buffer beam combinations.

There is an EWS one on a GBRF chassis, whilst a GBRF one is on an EWS chassis in Hattons pile, though to make both good would need a 3rd EWS one and a G&W one for parts… so £500 outlay would get you a good EWS, GBRF and an acceptable EWS one, and a pile of parts… ebay would get you that for less £, and no effort fixing it.

 

Naturally.  You're forgetting though that it also depends on what the buyer is starting with - he may have an early (EWS/Freightliner/DRS) chassis already sitting on the workbench, therefore further expenditure required = zero, in order to acquire (in this example) a complete EWS machine.   Or he may have a complete early Freightliner example, whereby the body and bufferbeams might simply require swapping over.  The possibilities are endless. 

 

Either way, the argument is quickly descending into a long, dark tunnel at this point - my hypothetical 'project' was simply to highlight the general uses for such models as donors...  😉

 

Edited October 12, 2022 by YesTor

[PieGuyRob]

16 hours ago, YesTor said:

 

Naturally.  You're forgetting though that it also depends on what the buyer is starting with - he may have an early (EWS/Freightliner/DRS) chassis already sitting on the workbench, therefore further expenditure required = zero, in order to acquire (in this example) a complete EWS machine.   Or he may have a complete early Freightliner example, whereby the body and bufferbeams might simply require swapping over.  The possibilities are endless. 

 

Either way, the argument is quickly descending into a long, dark tunnel at this point - my hypothetical 'project' was simply to highlight the general uses for such models as donors...  😉

 

At over inflated prices. £180 for a former sound fitted example with sound removed,  and, the decoder removed that is non running. 

 

It is clearly worth the money!

[adb968008]

18 hours ago, YesTor said:

 

Either way, the argument is quickly descending into a long, dark tunnel at this point - my hypothetical 'project' was simply to highlight the general uses for such models as donors...  😉

 

I have a long dark tunnel stuffed with Hattons 66’s. I keep pulling a few out, slowly reducing my pile from my covid excesses!

[Hilux5972]

2 hours ago, adb968008 said:

I have a long dark tunnel stuffed with Hattons 66’s. I keep pulling a few out, slowly reducing my pile from my covid excesses!

Does 66743 happen to be one of those? Missed out on that Royal Scotsman one. 

[adb968008]

10 hours ago, Hilux5972 said:

Does 66743 happen to be one of those? Missed out on that Royal Scotsman one. 

Yes but errr that was the one I selected to be my christmas tree for my others…

ive already had the motor, both drive shafts, two gearbox lids, one light track, dcc chip, cab windows on one end, cab lights off one end, all the cab footsteps, 1 buffer, 1 front airdam step, 1 lamp iron

 

When its in 1 piece it reminds me of that ghost hulk in Stoke.

(flickr url)

 

I still have dibs on the side grills, 1 handrail and the axleboxes for a 66587 restoration i’m in progress of doing.

 

The ones i’m likely to have spare, are FL, EWS, DRS, GBRF and DB as I bought multiples of them, FL especially.

 

But it does have a very good box 😀

 

 

Edited October 13, 2022 by adb968008