Falcon Brassworks - a warning!

[hayfield]

5 hours ago, Tim Dubya said:

I take back what I said earlier, with a starting bid of £20 including the legs and feet, what a bargain!

 

 

 

I seem to remember someone made a very good job of one kit, by replacing or modifying solebar etch. I have in the past failed a couple of times building them as designed (fold up) mainly owing to no account taken of the slight enlargement bending the parts takes

 

Good luck as often they are quite unique prototypes, be aware of the castings, as been told they may not be prototypically accurate, just the correct size or there abouts, but that's rivet counting and knowing the prototype in detail, past my pay grade !!! 

[hayfield]

 

 

Here is one for those who like a challenge

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/204394402333?hash=item2f96db121d:g:5MkAAOSwH31krqdI&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA4K8osh5ckUwGwDiF%2FgTBzI90QGeexw3RBuldCYfiZwDVun2PoS4HrTjVp0ub%2FzzsxOEti7wSqYqD0klHrNVqH8VA%2Fbm4CHAJyPFzUvtAOutdXlaTFNX9SFMl9o65Xd4v1YOemfNFrIx7SpaR%2BYfu%2Bh2J6sCUtqFvO6k80BTNfCmJ4IEtCjKx41b72Tegj7dC4FB4gSMBCnGOtWalEFXXI7N%2FFVz5CBKHsxV1IhUZW4Jz57ljPTKZb41wp2d%2FsBRUV3DLgQhnB7wQzYvfosZL8cKUwJk5nSNfXySPmpHHrpKn|tkp%3ABk9SR_bUksmqYg

 

[Bucoops]

1 hour ago, hayfield said:

 

 

Here is one for those who like a challenge

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/204394402333?hash=item2f96db121d:g:5MkAAOSwH31krqdI&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA4K8osh5ckUwGwDiF%2FgTBzI90QGeexw3RBuldCYfiZwDVun2PoS4HrTjVp0ub%2FzzsxOEti7wSqYqD0klHrNVqH8VA%2Fbm4CHAJyPFzUvtAOutdXlaTFNX9SFMl9o65Xd4v1YOemfNFrIx7SpaR%2BYfu%2Bh2J6sCUtqFvO6k80BTNfCmJ4IEtCjKx41b72Tegj7dC4FB4gSMBCnGOtWalEFXXI7N%2FFVz5CBKHsxV1IhUZW4Jz57ljPTKZb41wp2d%2FsBRUV3DLgQhnB7wQzYvfosZL8cKUwJk5nSNfXySPmpHHrpKn|tkp%3ABk9SR_bUksmqYg

 

 

 

Many, many years ago I bought a part built one from John Dutfield (when it was John running the shop). £10 I think. Looked at it at the time and thought I can do that. Got it home, looked at it properly - maybe not. Into the cupboard it went. There was no makers names, no clues as to its origins. Got it out again a couple of years ago, had another look. Decided I didn't even want to try so stuck it on ebay, 99p start. Somehow got just over £20 for it so wth inflation probably broke even.

 

THEN I found out it was a Jidenco kit so had a lucky escape!

[jamieb]

10 hours ago, hayfield said:

 

 

I seem to remember someone made a very good job of one kit, by replacing or modifying solebar etch. I have in the past failed a couple of times building them as designed (fold up) mainly owing to no account taken of the slight enlargement bending the parts takes

 

Good luck as often they are quite unique prototypes, be aware of the castings, as been told they may not be prototypically accurate, just the correct size or there abouts, but that's rivet counting and knowing the prototype in detail, past my pay grade !!! 

This may be of interest to anyone contemplating having a go! Unfortunately some of the photos disappeared in the great crash

 

Edited July 14, 2023 by jamieb
Wrong link!

[Ian G]

I have a few Jidenco kits to build, my 1st foray into soldering brass was with a 12t van. at the moment I am building the engineers wagon, the body is fine folds up well, the underframe is made up of Bill bedford wagon irons, brake gear from exactoscale & Mainly Trains, axle box & springs from dart castings, wagon side bracing from Kenline nice crisp casted T's to be filed to shape.

I also have 2 GWR ballast ploughs from Jidenco. Drawings from GWR wagon plan book and photos in various books.

 

Ian G

[Brassey]

This is my Bulldog Bird class from a Falcon kit bought from that source...

 

[jwealleans]

It's been said many times, many times on this thread and probably previously by me on this thread, but if you approach these kits with an awareness of their shortcomings and aren't afraid to replace the dodgy bits you can make a decent model from them.

 

 

This is their 15 ton GC van.

 

 

6 wheel GC brake van

 

 

LNER Toad B.   You can see some of the alterations I had to make here.

 

 

GN fish van to the right.

 

 

GC matchboard vestibuled Composite.

 

I wouldn't even say they're the worst brass kits I've ever tackled, now I've built an Acorn BR Grain Hopper.  

Edited July 15, 2023 by jwealleans

[cctransuk]

1 hour ago, jwealleans said:

I wouldn't even say they're the worst brass kits I've ever tackled, now I've built an Acorn BR Grain Hopper.  

 

Been there, (partly) done that - for many a long year !!!

 

It WILL get finished dreckly!

 

CJI.

 

PS. I believe that it was 'shot down' from a not very good 7mm. scale kit.

Edited July 15, 2023 by cctransuk

[moore43grm]

2 hours ago, jwealleans said:

you can make a decent model from them.

 

not the best of pictures but you get the idea !

[jwealleans]

1 hour ago, cctransuk said:

Been there, (partly) done that - for many a long year !!!

 

It WILL get finished dreckly!

 

I can sympathise, John - it takes a lot of moral fortitude.  I have two more of the kits but they will almost certainly never be built (at least by me).    It can be done. though:

 

 

 

 

Edited July 15, 2023 by jwealleans

[John Tomlinson]

2 hours ago, jwealleans said:

It's been said many times, many times on this thread and probably previously by me on this thread, but if you approach these kits with an awareness of their shortcomings and aren't afraid to replace the dodgy bits you can make a decent model from them.

 

 

This is their 15 ton GC van.

 

 

6 wheel GC brake van

 

 

LNER Toad B.   You can see some of the alterations I had to make here.

 

 

GN fish van to the right.

 

 

GC matchboard vestibuled Composite.

 

I wouldn't even say they're the worst brass kits I've ever tackled, now I've built an Acorn BR Grain Hopper.  

 

The only Jidenco wagon I've done is the GC 15t fish van that you show.

 

I was pleased with the end result, but it took a long time, even for me. IIRC there were over 130 separate parts, inc.handles, strappings etc., as I did a count at the end.

 

A fine collection of vehicles.

 

John.

Edited July 15, 2023 by John Tomlinson
typo

[micklner]

Falcon Brass LNER F8 no real problems at the time of building. I have just started a Arthur Kimber version of the F8 . The Kimber kit is longer not much else different so far. Etches are better quality but not by much.

 

[57xx]

On 12/07/2023 at 13:28, NHY 581 said:

Don't be fooled by the feedback against the seller. It appears they are fine when all goes their way but they do not respond to those queries raising an issue. Only when you kick up a fuss will they reply...........and then it's your fault........and they still do not resolve the issue. 

 

Seems the phrase "a leopard never changes it spots" is true then.

[hayfield]

1 hour ago, 57xx said:

 

Seems the phrase "a leopard never changes it spots" is true then.

 

On 15/07/2023 at 10:12, Brassey said:

This is my Bulldog Bird class from a Falcon kit bought from that source...

 

 

To add a bit of balance to the argument, I had an email exchange last year without any issues. However those who had followed this thread the proprietor's first priority is her child who health issues. 

 

Secondly like others who knowingly knew what they were buying have received a good buying experience several times from this seller, however the quality of the listings could be better 

[NHY 581]

By way of an update, I have now had a refund from the seller. 

 

Rob. 

[GWR1890-1908]

For a variety of reasons I have not been active on this site for some time. If anyone is reading this topic from the beginning, I would like to stress that Nigel at Dart Castings went to great lengths to try to supply my order of 6 GWR 2000 gallon tenders ordered from Samantha in about 2014. He was always intent on providing service. This to the extent of determining that the etches they had received were not correct, and committing to the process of drawing up new tools. We had regular contact, both by email and telephone. I did receive some test etches , but these also needed considerable re-work to be viable, and we exchanged copious notes and suggestions to this end. It was still going to be an extended process, and from the get-go he said that at any point I could request a refund. When Covid arrived , and some other factors eventuated, I finally decided this was the best option. I had ordered suitable castings from Brassmasters, and decided that I could utilise what I could from the etches, and  scratch build the rest. I received my refund in October 2021. While the whole process had taken about 6 years at that point, I kept my cool, and Nigel was extremely apologetic and accommodating about the whole thing. I have never had any problems with Dart Castings, find no issues with them at all, and will continue to do business with them. I have quite a stock of Falcon loco kits, and have built several. Those that I HAVE built I have had no difficulties with at all.

[hayfield]

Recently I spoke with one manufacturer, who said he had chats with the original owner over one particular kit. The kits at that time were hand drawn and as for the castings, these were incorrect, when challenged about this the owner admitted he used existing casting in his range which were near enough. These kits were of their time and whilst may have been better than existing kits of that time, things have moved on in the hobby.

 

As for the current owners, there have been lots of theories about what has gone on, clearly it seems its a range that is slowly disappearing from the scene and perhaps is not going to be the last range to disappear as technology moves along at a pace with new methods of production. For me the seller has always been good and I was happy with what I brought and the service given 

[uax6]

Has anyone asked Dart Castings about buying any of the castings for the Falcon kits?

 

Andy G

Edited September 18, 2023 by uax6

[GWR1890-1908]

In addition to my previous post, I should point out that WM Collectables has quite a stock of Jidenco and Falcon kits. In fact, I was able to get one of the required GWR 2000 gal tender kits from him. The kits are not cheap (50 pound for some wagons), but if you can't get it elsewhere, or are a collector, that is probably not a concern. Service and delivery from WM is one of the best.

[Jol Wilkinson]

7 hours ago, GWR1890-1908 said:

In addition to my previous post, I should point out that WM Collectables has quite a stock of Jidenco and Falcon kits. In fact, I was able to get one of the required GWR 2000 gal tender kits from him. The kits are not cheap (50 pound for some wagons), but if you can't get it elsewhere, or are a collector, that is probably not a concern. Service and delivery from WM is one of the best.

It would be a good idea if he deleted sold items from his site. Leaving them on may give a good idea of selling prices but gives the impression he has a lot more stock than he actually does, which can mean searching through the page to find what is actually for sale.

 

Some of his prices for kits that have been absorbed into other ranges (and possibly improved/updated) are simply excessive. E.g. the D&S LNWR 10T Brake van at £55 (he has five in stock). Now available from London Road Models with an updated underframe and additional etched parts at £25.00.

[cctransuk]

13 hours ago, GWR1890-1908 said:

In addition to my previous post, I should point out that WM Collectables has quite a stock of Jidenco and Falcon kits. In fact, I was able to get one of the required GWR 2000 gal tender kits from him. The kits are not cheap (50 pound for some wagons), but if you can't get it elsewhere, or are a collector, that is probably not a concern. Service and delivery from WM is one of the best.

 

Silly prices, frankly!

 

CJI.

[Steamport Southport]

7 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

Silly prices, frankly!

 

CJI.

 

Whilst I agree, it's a sellers market. He's got one, Joe Bloggs that wants one hasn't. He can charge what he likes, might not get it though.

 

Unfortunately people pay those prices. Just like the over inflated prices on eBay for D&S kits and similar. Remember the recent prices for Coopercraft and Kirk kits? Now they are coming back into production the prices have mostly plummeted.

 

Still one or two vastly inflated prices like this. I would expect the Phoenix reissue to be about £120 seeing as the other coaches are about £30 each.

 

LNER Quad Art

 

 

 

It's a case of being patient and only paying what you think is reasonable, seems to me many people just buy the first one they see!

 

 

Jason

[cctransuk]

2 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Whilst I agree, it's a sellers market. He's got one, Joe Bloggs that wants one hasn't. He can charge what he likes, might not get it though.

 

Unfortunately people pay those prices. Just like the over inflated prices on eBay for D&S kits and similar. Remember the recent prices for Coopercraft and Kirk kits? Now they are coming back into production the prices have mostly plummeted.

 

Still one or two vastly inflated prices like this. I would expect the Phoenix reissue to be about £120 seeing as the other coaches are about £30 each.

 

LNER Quad Art

 

 

 

It's a case of being patient and only paying what you think is reasonable, seems to me many people just buy the first one they see!

 

 

Jason

 

A fool and his money .........!

 

CJI.

[hayfield]

32 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Whilst I agree, it's a sellers market. He's got one, Joe Bloggs that wants one hasn't. He can charge what he likes, might not get it though.

 

Unfortunately people pay those prices. Just like the over inflated prices on eBay for D&S kits and similar. Remember the recent prices for Coopercraft and Kirk kits? Now they are coming back into production the prices have mostly plummeted.

 

Still one or two vastly inflated prices like this. I would expect the Phoenix reissue to be about £120 seeing as the other coaches are about £30 each.

 

LNER Quad Art

 

 

 

It's a case of being patient and only paying what you think is reasonable, seems to me many people just buy the first one they see!

 

 

Jason

 

Jason

 

I have been for a check up and took my copy of the Railway modeller, looking at 2 4 mm locos just released, one was £250 ish, the other £150 ish. I was absolutely stunned at the price

 

I have also noticed some loco kits are increasing in price, where as a year ago they were about £100 now they are Nearer £135, and both are without wheels, motor and gears. As said if you want a hard to find item, then you have to pay for them.

 

But times do change small RTR 7mm tank locos are now much cheaper, many kits which 5 years ago fetched high prices are now quite cheap

 

My own collection of kits is far too large and I am trying to slim down my collection. But every now and then temptation get the better of me, though I am less attached to many of them

 

As for the worth of a kit, its down to the individual we all see things differently. If its too expensive them no one will buy it. 

 

Would I pay £250 for a new Hornby loco, the answer is no 

[Steamport Southport]

28 minutes ago, hayfield said:

 

Jason

 

I have been for a check up and took my copy of the Railway modeller, looking at 2 4 mm locos just released, one was £250 ish, the other £150 ish. I was absolutely stunned at the price

 

I have also noticed some loco kits are increasing in price, where as a year ago they were about £100 now they are Nearer £135, and both are without wheels, motor and gears. As said if you want a hard to find item, then you have to pay for them.

 

But times do change small RTR 7mm tank locos are now much cheaper, many kits which 5 years ago fetched high prices are now quite cheap

 

My own collection of kits is far too large and I am trying to slim down my collection. But every now and then temptation get the better of me, though I am less attached to many of them

 

As for the worth of a kit, its down to the individual we all see things differently. If its too expensive them no one will buy it. 

 

Would I pay £250 for a new Hornby loco, the answer is no 

 

Totally different market though. 

 

Would I pay about £250 for a new Hornby loco? Yes, already have done for Turbomotive. It'll probably still have a reasonable resale price in decades to come, even after I've got pleasure out of it.

 

Would I pay full price for something like a Martin Finney or PDK Kit? Yes. Same goes for all new kits as that will be the price of making them.

 

 

Would I pay £XYZ for a second hand kit that was outdated decades ago. Where the previous owner probably paid a fraction of the price for it. And stored unwanted in the loft until someone found it forty or fifty years later? No.

 

I bought a D&S Y6 a few months ago for about £30. I've seen them sell for over £100.

 

I even bought a McGowan B12 for £20 off eBay recently which is a third of what W M Collectables are charging....

 

Still loads of bargains about. If people stopped paying over the odds, the prices will soon come down to their true worth.

 

For clarity, I'm not blaming the sellers, but the buyers.

 

 

Jason