Great Model Railway Challenge - Channel 5

[57xx]

So how long will it before visitors to exhibitions start asking to see your animations?

Time Travel Train was destroyed after filming as we had no way to get it home. We had to build it all there from a blank set of boards too. The nearest you can get is to see my sci-fi model 'Cato Pass' at shows as some of the items are now on that.

I think Chris is referring to exhibition layouts in general where some people introduced to the hobby by this show will expect every layout to have animations.  

 

 

[Edge]

It was a nice mix this week, the seemingly ‘throw it on the table’ of the Steampunk (cudos for the warhammer minis though), the blue teams highly ambitious attempt to build an exhibition layout (although quite obviously unfinished) and the red team’s charming mix of the two.

 

Also enjoyed the scratch build challenge, although visible sticky tape on the lighthouse was probably always going to end badly...

[steve1]

"The animations are a gimmick, just as they are on many other layouts" - as I am sure you were happy to say to Dave & Shirley Rowe years ago when their layouts featured extensive animations. So "gimmicky" that Wild Swan published a book on them that sold out quickly and costs a fortune if you want it second-hand today.

 

The point of the animations, and working trains, is that movement is essential. How many exhibition threads are full of howls that nothing was moving? If serious modellers demand to see things move, the general public are going to be far more demanding in that direction.

There is a difference between 'animations' and 'gimmicks'. A working turntable or level crossing gates is an 'animation'. A flying UFO or a bubble machine is a 'gimmick'.

 

steve

[Pete Thorpe]

I see the GWR has adopted an improved green.

Despite being brought up on the Henley branch my allegiances tend towards LMS and Southern, so I had no qualms about repainting a brand new GWR loco into a fictional livery (twice!).

Numbered 7038 Rudolph Castle as as special order from Santa after the final Castle 7037 Swindon was built, and likewise for the 08 which was numbered 08959 Gronk (complete with Camford Junction depot plaque). I did proper research even for this layout!

[Pete Thorpe]

However, the one that won last night only had a token animation (unless you count the bubble machine) and it didn't prevent it from winning.

Animations also included working signals and points and opening doors, flashing lights and smoke from the chimney for the toy factory, We also had sound for each section which unfortunate didn't come across in the programme, these being Egyptian music and camels, a cricket match, and the elves making the toys in the factory. Both of the 00 locos had sound too.

[298]

The other thing I've been thinking about is how competitor's may approach this if there is a second series. An example would be the third rail on the Watford layout. I totally get why they did it, I'd have done the same for a modelling challenge, however thinking about the time constraints and the fact they did not seem to have got any credit for their authenticity I'd imagine next series others may take a different tact.

 

Rather than throwing household clutter at people, perhaps the challenge ought to be to put their skills into a "Bake-off technical challenge" where each team has to for example build a layout with a loop of overhead wiring on and run a loco so it is picking up from it-

 

Team A cleverly uses a class 76 with its twin pantographs, but team B is disqualified for using a loco with DCC and a stay alive capacitor. Team C is currently in the medical room with burnt fingertips (we've all been there....).

 

I was hoping to see more speedy techniques such as otherwise frowned on items like pre-ballasted foam and grass mat, but the editing last night showed up too many team weaknesses and a lack of rehearsal time so why not just make more of it a blind challenge?

Edited October 20, 2018 by 298

[colin smith]

When you consider the theme of the episode - Globetrotting - modelling a south coast, seaside station in the UK isn't overly imaginative. With all due respect to the Tonbridge team, they produced an excellent layout with great features, but all I could see that related to the theme (and correct me if I'm wrong) were the flags on the beach huts and a Customs hut. If there was more, I didn't spot it on a first viewing. 

 

Once again we have to remember that the shows primary audience isn't the serious modeller, it's the general public who we want to gain an interest in the hobby. The gimmicky themes will be what gets them interested, and hopefully will encourage them to look further into the hobby, whether that's looking at YouTube, magazines, or going to exhibitions, which are all great opportunities to see some top class modelling.  

 

I believe the judges got it right, and the Basingstoke Bodgers layout interpreted the theme in a fun and interesting way, I particularly liked their use of N Gauge. Team Steampunk certainly produced something very outside the box in terms of the theme, and had they been deemed the winners would've been worthy, but dare I say controversial? ones. 

 

As for the themes you have suggested, not to give anything away, but one of those may seem very familiar in a few weeks time... 

 

Don't agree at all. You can sell something to the public without turning it into a circus. Think of a programme like Grand Designs which takes an esoteric subject and makes it seem exciting, challenging, and rewarding.

[Pete Thorpe]

My take on it was a repeat of my thoughts on last week. I think that as a result of running issues the judge's made the correct decision. Had there not been running issues I'd had gone for the blue team this week.

 

Although Santas, Elves, dinosaurs and aliens are not my thing on a layout I thought all three layouts were well put together.

 

Had they been at an exhibition I'd have walked past any layout with dinosaurs, aliens or elves and spent most of the time at Watford from last week and the blue team this week. That is not a comment on the modelling ability of the others simply on my personal taste. I guess I would find it hard to be an objective judge because I'd be drawn to a type of layout, the more traditional type.

 

Still enjoying the show, well done to all involved and looking forward to next week.

Even as one of the Basingstoke team I would tend to agree, and it wouldn't normally be the type of layout I would even consider building, but given the theme we were given, the format and who the target audience is it obviously fitted the bill and did what was required.

 

If you go to Warley this year you will have your opportunity to walk past it as it will be on display as part of Peco's stand  , but it would be great if any of you would like to stop by and have a chat about it!

Edited October 20, 2018 by Pete Thorpe

[298]

 

The point of the animations, and working trains, is that movement is essential. How many exhibition threads are full of howls that nothing was moving? If serious modellers demand to see things move, the general public are going to be far more demanding in that direction.

The program is nicely edited so scenes with detail are pointed out to the camera and commented on by the host.

 

It was always a challenge to add "static" detail to a layout such as a group of people stood talking instead of being frozen in time walking down a pavement, I hope such attention to detail isn't going to be derided because punters now expect to see Lionel or Tyco type operating accessories for the sake of including movement.

[colin smith]

Whilst I can see your point, and it has some merit, there is a saying in business (Henry Ford's?) "that if you do what you always do, you get what you've always got." Whichever bit of the railway scene, full size or model, most interests you/me/us Is irrelevant; we can't hide the fact the traditional structure of the railway interest group is slowly shrivelling from the bottom up. We have to adapt to survive. This may be a way to adapt and evolve. I am certainly thinking of ways to make our Society stand build on the GMRC, possibly not time for anything significant before Warley but in time for Alexandra Palace. As I posted previously, the pyramid is shrinking from the bottom up not the top, we have to attract the newbies of any age. Talking to a fellow enthusiast in the model shop yesterday suggests that target is middle aged retirees not necessarily youngsters. What matters is we grip the attention of today's prospective modeller. If the animations and 'off the wall' ideas do that in the same way Tri-Ang's giraffe car, helicopter and rocket wagon did for my generation then it is good.

 

It does happen. When I was ten all those years ago boys didn't do Barbie dolls, then someone thought differently and introduced Action Man! My younger cousin and his mates were hooked on dolls for boys. The right thing at the right time can change things - I may never choose to model a space port, but remember the Tracey Island phenomenum, equally I will never model the LNWR in P4. I am however part owner of an LNWR live steam locomotive.

 

This is something different, for mass entertainment, that the hobby may well benefit from.

 

Hmm. The Triang gimmicks never did interest me. I went very quickly from trains going in a circle to 'this should look like the real thing'. I suspect the real future of model railways for the young is in virtual reality rather than traditional modelling.

[Pete Thorpe]

I went very quickly from trains going in a circle to 'this should look like the real thing'.

Hopefully this is something that this series will lead to.

Edited October 20, 2018 by Pete Thorpe

[Pete Thorpe]

I had thoughts about using Corgi 1:72 Vulcan but think the weight might be a problem? That and making it travel across the 10 foot layout at an appropriate speed?

I intend getting round that by having a Whirlwind Helicopter on the layout as it can just hover as doesn't need to "go" anywhere!

[APOLLO]

Want  operating accessories ?

 

 

Still a big market over in the USA for this stuff !!

 

Brit15

[Robin2]

I went very quickly from trains going in a circle to 'this should look like the real thing'. 

The problem with that is that, while it may be very satisfying to build and will look fabulous in photos it is boring as hell to watch unless you are already a railway geek.

 

For most people watching the real railway is and always was boring. OK there was a thrill when you were standing on a bridge and an express ran underneath you. But the idea of waiting long enough to see the next one ....

 

Even on the exhibition layouts that ensure there are plenty of trains running you have to be a railway geek to appreciate the difference between the trains other than freight vs passenger, or long vs short.

 

By the way, I have nothing against railway geeks - they are all very nice guys. But those who are aware that an A3 was a Great Western loco must realize that they have special knowledge and interest that is not common in the population.

 

 

I liked the 3rd program best so far. Having read a couple of articles about Laurie Calvert's models I was hoping he would win to poke a stick in the eye of the establishment. And I thought his use of foam ballast to save time was a sensible approach for a time-limited competition. (Some of the other 8 teams seemed to take no account of the time constraint when planning what to build).  However I am quite satisfied that the judges made the right decision.

 

...R

Edited October 20, 2018 by Robin2

[Gordon H]

Rather than throwing household clutter at people, perhaps the challenge ought to be to put their skills into a "Bake-off technical challenge" where each team has to for example build a layout with a loop of overhead wiring on and run a loco so it is picking up from it-

 

Count me in...   

[298]

Count me in...   

Modellers with a previous history of getting an OHLE Layout on the telly are exempt...

[newbryford]

 

But those who are aware that an A3 was a Great Western loco must realize that they have special knowledge and interest that is not common in the population.

 

 

Yep. A3. GWR.

That is specialist knowledge.....

[Metr0Land]

Yep. A3. GWR.

That is specialist knowledge.....

 

Maybe not GWR but GW/GC Joint

 

60052_MasterCutler_Akeman-Grendon_29-5-52 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

[Hroth]

Yep. A3. GWR.

That is specialist knowledge.....

True, but one has to remember that after Gresley saw Pendennis Castle alongside Flying Scotsman at the British Empire Exhibition, he had his notebook out and spent half an hour copying things before being chased off by a suspicious GWR attendant who had come back from his tea break!

 

Or so I've been told..... 

[Phil Parker]

Rather than throwing household clutter at people, perhaps the challenge ought to be to put their skills into a "Bake-off technical challenge" where each team has to for example build a layout with a loop of overhead wiring on and run a loco so it is picking up from it-

 

Team A cleverly uses a class 76 with its twin pantographs, but team B is disqualified for using a loco with DCC and a stay alive capacitor. Team C is currently in the medical room with burnt fingertips (we've all been there....).

 

I was hoping to see more speedy techniques such as otherwise frowned on items like pre-ballasted foam and grass mat, but the editing last night showed up too many team weaknesses and a lack of rehearsal time so why not just make more of it a blind challenge?

 

That sounds you hear? It's a million non-enthusiasts changing channel.

 

One of the challenges for the TV company was to make the show televisual - something has to happen on screen and be pretty obvious. A stay alive capacitor is slightly less interesting then watching paint dry. A lot of railway modellers wouldn't be interested, so the rest of the world certainly won't be.

 

Last night's scratchbuild challenge showed off the innovation and skill of railway modellers. There will be plenty of people impressed with the use of the sink plunger to make an igloo and turning the sponge into a bouncy castle was pretty clever too. In week on, re-using dust from a cut up shoe as coal was genius. I'd say being presented with a random object and told to make something of it is a harder job than being given some sheets of Plastikard. OK, maybe this is a return to the sort of modelling carried out in the 1950s when there weren't as many specialist materials out there, but it's also the sort of modelling the gets kids interested.

 

Some of the techniques you don't approve of might have been scorned by the judges, but in a short programme, there isn't going to be time to include absolutely everything. As those who took part have said, there is a vast amount of footage that didn't make it on to the screen.

[Phil Parker]

Hmm. The Triang gimmicks never did interest me. I went very quickly from trains going in a circle to 'this should look like the real thing'. I suspect the real future of model railways for the young is in virtual reality rather than traditional modelling.

 

I still love Triang operating gimmicks and have a growing collection which is being augmented by the Bachmann versions when I can find them - https://philsworkbench.blogspot.com/2016/07/Bachmann-action-depot.html

 

This might explain why I am A Bad Modeller, or it might be that our hobby encompasses so many different possibilities that there is something for everyone. If you prefer a P4 branch line to a Battlespace Turbo car, that's fine. Just accept that others feel differently. There is even space for virtual modelling, as shown by the regular appearance of RailSim at shows, but others spending all day staring at screens may wish to do something that's not on a computer. 

[Phil Parker]

There is a difference between 'animations' and 'gimmicks'. A working turntable or level crossing gates is an 'animation'. A flying UFO or a bubble machine is a 'gimmick'.

 

steve

 

If you have built a sci-fi layout with an alien invasion, a flying UFO is an essential feature.

 

As for the bubble machine, I've been at shows where it would be the closest some visitors have come to soap for years...

[Ian Morgan]

As for the scratch build challenge, Santa's Toy Factory, a pre-build model, incorporated plywood offcuts, plastic drain pipe, plastic water pipe, two yoghurt pots, two plastic shot glasses, two old radio knobs a supermarket trifle bowl, Xmas wrapping paper and lots of coffee stirrers. It's what we do.

[Ian Morgan]

[Coryton]

As for the scratch build challenge, Santa's Toy Factory, a pre-build model, incorporated plywood offcuts, plastic drain pipe, plastic water pipe, two yoghurt pots, two plastic shot glasses, two old radio knobs a supermarket trifle bowl, Xmas wrapping paper and lots of coffee stirrers. It's what we do.

 

Quite - and the scratch-build challenge shows that sort of thing very nicely in a way that otherwise probably wouldn't come across.

 

Clearly most of us don't start with an object and insist to ourselves that it goes on the layout but I'm sure I'm not the only one who looks at everyday objects thinking about how they could be used. (And how many of us have boxes of left-over bits of packaging and the like on the grounds that it Might Come In Useful One Day?)