Great Model Railway Challenge - Channel 5

[Golden Fleece 30]

Unfortunately a DBS check does nothing really, all it means is that the time of issue you did not have a recorded criminal record but it does not stop anything happening in the future, who can predict that anyway?

 

I am a foster carer and have a check every 3 years as do all carers, yet, a few years ago one foster carer with a DBS clearance murdered the girl in his care.  Another one recently within the last year with a DBS clearance record was jailed for raping his foster child.  While I was teaching at college a few years ago one of the staff in our department who was DBS cleared was charged with attempted rape of one of our students, I was the one she came to tell what happened.  In the initial stages at college we only needed them if a student was of school age as we had 14 - 16 year olds come to college twice a week, after a few years all staff were required by our  management to have one.

 

For some strange reason if we had a child minder for one or two sittings they do not need DBS clearance, but, if they do it regularly for us then they do.  Those are social services regulations.

 

As a production company I guess it is up to their management to say if they need one or not but on social services ideas I would say no as it was not a regular thing.  

 

Garry

[Colin_McLeod]

One way could be with the scratch building challenge, rather than give 3 rather obscure items do what one of the cooking programs does

 

Have a table full of everyday items (a bit like the articles in the Railway Modeller in the 60's) like card boxes, bits of plastic, matches and or basic items like balsa strip etc and challenge the modeller to construct something from scratch.

Or the other way round. Set a challenge to make a model X using raw materials only. This is what we modellers actually do. How many of us have seen a high heel shoe and asked " what can I make with that?" We are more likely to ask "What can I make this model out of?"

 

Rules could be set to cover the details of making this work.

Edited November 9, 2018 by Colin_McLeod

[MarkSG]

 

As a production company I guess it is up to their management to say if they need one or not but on social services ideas I would say no as it was not a regular thing.  

 

 

 

No, it's up to the law, and the law says they do.

 

More specifically, any use of children in a TV recording for entertainment purposes (which this is) needs to be licensed (Children and Young Persons Act 1963). There are some exemptions, but they don't apply in this case (the main exemption which could apply is that a licence may not be needed if the child is only used for three days, but GMRC has three days of recording for each episode and everyone taking part may need to be present for the final, so they wouldn't be able to rely on that unless they can guarantee that no team containing children reaches the final!).

 

The licence conditions in turn require that every child participating is supervised at all times by either their own parents/guardians, their own schoolteacher(s) or a qualified chaperone. A chaperone in turn needs to be licensed, and one of the conditions of that is having a valid DBS certificate.

 

Also, children can't be taken out of school for recording unless either suitable provision is made for their education or their school is a participant in the activity. This, again, is a legal requirement, not just an opinion.

 

Other people have mentioned the Lego programme on C4. I haven't seen that myself, but looking at the website I see that all the teams are based around families - often parent/child teams. So I presume they avoid the need for a chaperone by having a parent on set all the time, even if the parent isn't part of the team. And I would imagine that they avoid the other issues by having a licence and avoiding school term time for recording. That clearly works for them. But it wouldn't work for GMRC, at least not with the format used in series 1. And, of course, working round the legal requirements for using children adds both cost and practical barriers. I don't know what GMRC's budget is, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if was tight enough that they didn't want to spend any of it on stuff like that. 

 

Comparisons with other professions and activities are really not helpful. The rules relating to using children on TV are quite stringent and well known, and it isn't just a case of management policies. Complying with the rules works for some shows, of course. That's why the rules are there! But if the format (and budget) of the show makes complying with the rules impractical, then it means no children. And that isn't a matter for debate. It's about staying legal.

[Golden Fleece 30]

No, it's up to the law, and the law says they do.

 

More specifically, any use of children in a TV recording for entertainment purposes (which this is) needs to be licensed (Children and Young Persons Act 1963). There are some exemptions, but they don't apply in this case (the main exemption which could apply is that a licence may not be needed if the child is only used for three days, but GMRC has three days of recording for each episode and everyone taking part may need to be present for the final, so they wouldn't be able to rely on that unless they can guarantee that no team containing children reaches the final!).

 

The licence conditions in turn require that every child participating is supervised at all times by either their own parents/guardians, their own schoolteacher(s) or a qualified chaperone. A chaperone in turn needs to be licensed, and one of the conditions of that is having a valid DBS certificate.

 

Also, children can't be taken out of school for recording unless either suitable provision is made for their education or their school is a participant in the activity. This, again, is a legal requirement, not just an opinion.

 

Other people have mentioned the Lego programme on C4. I haven't seen that myself, but looking at the website I see that all the teams are based around families - often parent/child teams. So I presume they avoid the need for a chaperone by having a parent on set all the time, even if the parent isn't part of the team. And I would imagine that they avoid the other issues by having a licence and avoiding school term time for recording. That clearly works for them. But it wouldn't work for GMRC, at least not with the format used in series 1. And, of course, working round the legal requirements for using children adds both cost and practical barriers. I don't know what GMRC's budget is, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if was tight enough that they didn't want to spend any of it on stuff like that. 

 

Comparisons with other professions and activities are really not helpful. The rules relating to using children on TV are quite stringent and well known, and it isn't just a case of management policies. Complying with the rules works for some shows, of course. That's why the rules are there! But if the format (and budget) of the show makes complying with the rules impractical, then it means no children. And that isn't a matter for debate. It's about staying legal.

All I am saying is that a DBS certificate DOES NOT GUARANTEE a childs safety, which has been proved a few times, that's all no matter where it is or what you do.

 

Garry

Edited November 9, 2018 by Golden Fleece 30

[MarkSG]

All I am saying is that a DBS certificate DOES NOT GUARANTEE a childs safety, which has been proved a few times, that's all no matter where it is or what you do.

 

Garry

 

No, it doesn't. But that's not a persuasive argument for not having one in a situation where the law requires it.

[Robin Brasher]

Changing the subject the December Railway Modeller includes a two page article about Model Railway Challenge a day before the series is complete. I am surprised that they have published four letters that are very critical of the show. One letter said "If I were Hornby, Bachmann or any other manufacturer I would be furious with Flint for endorsing this rubbish by his presence."

 

In the article it mentions that the viewing figures of 1.3 million far exceeded the highest ever circulation for the Railway Modeller of 103,000 in 1981 so the programme must be attracting newcomers to the hobby. I am not sure if Railway Modelling had reached its peak in 1981. Casting my mind back to 1981 this was when Airfix and Palitoy introduced cheap and accurate models and spurred Hornby into improving their products with a paint finish and the development of new models. Hornby did not suffer from the production delays that plague the hobby now as they plagued Airfix and Palitoy then.  I don't think that the hobby was the preserve of the wealthy in 1981 and I think that children could afford to buy fairly realistic trains.

[Colin_McLeod]

All I am saying is that a DBS certificate DOES NOT GUARANTEE a childs safety, which has been proved a few times, that's all no matter where it is or what you do.

 

Garry

  

No, it doesn't. But that's not a persuasive argument for not having one in a situation where the law requires it.

Just like the MoT test.

[adb968008]

How might a teenager cope with the pressure. Having been on the show I can say that it is like being in a pressure cooker for three days, after having run the marathon of late nights of preparatory work over the previous month, just to be ready in time (we weren't).

 

[\quote]

 

I think your under estimating teenagers, when i just turned 16, i starred on a friday night ITV gameshow, by London Weekend Television, identifying locomotive names, preserved railway, original builders, from their numbers infront of a studio audience, and 13mn viewers (back in the days of 4 channels and no internet)... ithe challenge was to identify 25 in 3minutes, I did it in 2 1/2 minutes.

 

Its only had 3 effects on me, a lifelong butt of jokes from my mates who relished in finding it on youtube, and showing it to my latest girlfriends through uni, continuing my lifelong interest in railways, and seeing myself dubbed in Japanese !

 

I still proudly have my trophy, signed t-shirt from the cast and celebrities (inclyding Trevor Brooking / Lesley Joseph) and all those locomotive numbers removed from the Mocked up loco used in the filmset. plus my daughter today finds it funny seeing daddy so young.

 

I found it a great experience being in studio, got my photo with Kevin Costner and had lunch in the studio canteen with Robin Hood and his merry men, plus the sheriff and his men too, as they were filming Robiin Hood and Prince of theives in the studio next door.

I didnt find it stressful, and relished the local celeb status that lasted all of a weekend after it was broadcast.

Edited November 9, 2018 by adb968008

[Andy Y]

Wahey! Well done to the victors, some great modelling elements from each team though. Very imaginative Aberdeen!

[Waverley47708]

Well done Aberdeen. And well done to all the finalists. Five excellent layouts.

 

Great show, looking forward to the second series.

 

And not a dinosaur in sight!

Edited November 9, 2018 by Waverley47708

[enginelane]

Aberdeen, worthy winners well done!

[Ouroborus]

It isn't codified anywhere in legislation. BUT.... the legislation is worded in such a way as to make organisations err on the side of caution. That is, unless you are reasonably satisfied you don't need one, then it is advisable to have one.

 

More to the point, broadcasters and production companies have rules that if children are present on set, then, unless they are accompanied at all times by their own parents/carers or schoolteachers, then there must be at least one person also on location who is legally able to act in loco parentis (aka a chaperone). This is a legal requirement, and people filling that role must not only be DBS checked but also registered as approved chaperones. So it can't be done just by a club member taking a friend's children with them. It needs to be done by the production company.

Thanks. You answered my question. You don't need a DBS check to work with children. Now can we please stop with this utterly useless belief that DBS checks prevent child abuse. They don't. Let's enjoy the TV programme and move on

[57xx]

That was a great final, all the teams were brilliant and any of them would have made worthy winners. Congrats to the Aberdeen team!

[2mmMark]

I never ever thought I'd see a layout that reminded me of the 1930's film of the HG Wells novel Things To Come.

 

Absolutely stunning!

 

Worthy winners

[caradoc]

There were no losers, all 5 teams did amazing jobs, and Aberdeen were worthy winners. Roll on series 2 !

[MarkSG]

We watched the final all together, the entire family. That's a rarity in itself - it isn't often that you'll see the whole family in the same room watching the same screen at the same time. But, again, my younger daughter correctly picked the winner. 

[Phil Parker]

Top stuff from everyone. Well done Aberdeen. Can I bring a Battlespace Turbo Car to run at Warley? :-)

[enginelane]

Changing the subject the December Railway Modeller includes a two page article about Model Railway Challenge a day before the series is complete. I am surprised that they have published four letters that are very critical of the show. One letter said "If I were Hornby, Bachmann or any other manufacturer I would be furious with Flint for endorsing this rubbish by his presence."

 

In the article it mentions that the viewing figures of 1.3 million far exceeded the highest ever circulation for the Railway Modeller of 103,000 in 1981 so the programme must be attracting newcomers to the hobby. I am not sure if Railway Modelling had reached its peak in 1981. Casting my mind back to 1981 this was when Airfix and Palitoy introduced cheap and accurate models and spurred Hornby into improving their products with a paint finish and the development of new models. Hornby did not suffer from the production delays that plague the hobby now as they plagued Airfix and Palitoy then.  I don't think that the hobby was the preserve of the wealthy in 1981 and I think that children could afford to buy fairly realistic trains.

The show has divided opinion and there will be people with very strong views. My wife went out with her friends and yes they talked about the show. Well done everyone for being brave and taking that the plunge into the unknown, for me it worked! I bet the email box for Knickers is full every day!

[MarkSG]

Thanks. You answered my question. You don't need a DBS check to work with children. Now can we please stop with this utterly useless belief that DBS checks prevent child abuse. They don't. Let's enjoy the TV programme and move on

 

If you actually read what I wrote, I explained precisely why the TV companies do need someone with a DBS certificate to work with children. That is not a matter of opinion. That is a matter of law.

 

As for your belief that DBS certificates don't prevent child abuse, you are, of course, entitled to that opinion. But you are very much in a minority in holding it, and neither the broadcasters nor, more importantly, the legislators share it. 

[Robin Brasher]

I thought Aberdeen was brilliant. I liked the idea of forced perspective with 00 gauge and N gauge on the same layouts.

 

One of the hardest tasks I have found is joining the track over two boards on a portable layout. You have to get a perfect fit for the baseboards and the track has to align perfectly and be fixed firmly enough not to be damaged in transport. I think all the teams were correct in spending time over this rather than submit to pressure to get the track running on the first day.

 

I have had a lot of trouble at exhibitions and at model railway clubs with people pressuring me to get the layout up or down in time by flashing the lights on and off and telling me not to leave the door open without doing anything to help so I have had a little experience with working under pressure. I wonder if telling people to hurry up is counter productive.

[2mmMark]

If the series has proved anything, it's that there's only a few ways you can say "hurry up, you're running out of time".

[tom82]

Well done to Channel 5 and the production team for having the balls to put somthing like this on national TV.

 

Congratulations Aberdeen for winning the final

[APOLLO]

An interesting final, and some nice themes - I especially liked the Brunell one. All entrants perhaps deserved to win.

 

My wife and twin girls watched with me - "Dad, why has it taken you so many years to build your layouts - and these are MUCH more interesting than your layouts" - well that's there pocket money stopped tomorrow !!!!!!!!!!

 

Brit15

[PhilJ W]

Until it was announced I thought any one of the five would be the winner, it was that close a call. Congratulations to Aberdeen.

[Butler Henderson]

Well done Aberdeen, predicted that just before it was announced.

 

I am not sure if Railway Modelling had reached its peak in 1981. Casting my mind back to 1981 this was when Airfix and Palitoy introduced cheap and accurate models and spurred Hornby into improving their products with a paint finish and the development of new models.

 

Airfix and Palitoy arrived on the scene in 1976/77 - Hornby responded in 1980 with paint finish