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DJ Models Announcement 01/05/19


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the way im seeing it, if i quickly knock some cad this evening up for, oooh lets say the new class 69 and get it registered with the government it will stop anyone else producing one in model form? 

 

as an aside to that random loco class i've chosen, if externally it the real thing still looks exactly like a 56 then how would that work regards registering for IP as a 56 has already been done by a number of manufacturers  

 

 

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1 hour ago, dibber25 said:

<snip>

As far as locomotive and rolling stock designs are concerned, I think you'll find that the NRM claims them as its Intellectual Property. It certainly makes that claim for anything that it owns - Flying Scotsman, for instance. I have always found that to be morally questionable since the NRM did not create it.

<snip>

I believe the route for the NRM IP goes like this: Gresleys IP for the A1 would have been "owned" by the Great Northen Railway, which would have passed them to the LNER at Grouping, which was then nationalised into British Transport Commission and the passed on to BR. Any residual of BR that was not separated at privatisation was retained by the BRB until was wound up, whereupon remaining IP rights would have passed to the NRM.

 

So not created but inherited.

 

Luke

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3 minutes ago, big jim said:

the way im seeing it, if i quickly knock some cad this evening up for, oooh lets say the new class 69 and get it registered with the government it will stop anyone else producing one in model form? 

 

3 minutes ago, big jim said:

 

By the sounds of it the IP only protects your design so doesnt stop anyone from doing a model themselves as long as they dont use your drawing 

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  • RMweb Gold
4 minutes ago, big jim said:

the way im seeing it, if i quickly knock some cad this evening up for, oooh lets say the new class 69 and get it registered with the government it will stop anyone else producing one in model form? 

 

as an aside to that random loco class i've chosen, if externally it the real thing still looks exactly like a 56 then how would that work regards registering for IP as a 56 has already been done by a number of manufacturers  

 

 

 

That is my interpretation Jim, I might be wrong of course, but I think he (DJM) has got hold of the wrong end of the stick over IP Laws.

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1 hour ago, Oldddudders said:

If I commission someone to develop CAD images, does the IP vest with him or me? After all, he was paid by me to do the work, and without my commission, the work would not have been done. I do wonder if this might be part of DJ's problem? Yes, he did the work, but did others feel they owned the result?

 

Were binding contracts on signed documents put in place at the outset, or was a handshake the trigger for work to start? We may never know.

If you commission me to design you a house specifically for you, the copyright of that design rests with me and you have the right to build that house. You cannot use my design and build the same house elsewhere, or more of them, without my agreement. Similarly a housing developer can not ask me to design them a house and then build 100s of them around the country. I could sue them for breech of copyright.

 

However, there nothing to say that I cannot sell you the copyright of my design if you want it, so that the copyright now rests with you.

 

Going back the the housing developer analogy. If they were to change the design 'significantly' (legal hot water, define significantly) then the design could be considered unique. I design a house with a gable ended roof, they change the roof to a hip end and add a porch. Internally it's the same, externally it looks completely different. Is this a breech of copyright? (I don't know if that is enough of a change).

 

Not that I subscribe to DJMs stance in today's announcement, but if Accurascale have a more detailed roof and a more detailed bogie, would this be a sufficient change?

 

It'll be interesting to see how this pans out.

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  • RMweb Premium

Wonder what the mags will think of his press release . Will they even publish it . Can they, as it appears it may be factually incorrect?

Edited by Legend
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  • RMweb Gold

wouldnt it be a pisser if hornbachpol tomorrow announced that they have cad already produced for every single loco thats ever run in the uk since the birth of the railways and at 17:00 today got the lot registered with HMG

Edited by big jim
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1 minute ago, Damo666 said:

Not that I subscribe to DJMs stance in today's announcement, but if Accurascale have a more detailed roof and a more detailed bogie, would this be a sufficient change?

 

It'll be interesting to see how this pans out.

 

yes, but going on other explanations of the thread, anyone can make a model of any loco they like, providing they are not using the same drawings or intellectual property? 

Or have i missed a beat on this?

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It wasn't a 310 or a 323, just someone publicly asserting he wants to retain ownership of some CADs.  It won't and can't stop competition if that is what other companies want to do, the size of the market will determine that.  So long as someone does their own CAD and research work then game on.  A lot of froth and bluster over something that will have about as much impact on the UK RTR market as someone dropping a fart in a typhoon.  New commissions will continue and we will be able to choose to buy or not as we see fit.

Right, feeling of "confusing me with someone who gives a ****" duly satisfied, I'm off to 3d print a footbridge I've designed and won't be registering with anyone.  I have a more physical way of dealing with anyone who rips off my designs.

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  • RMweb Gold
2 minutes ago, big jim said:

wouldnt it be a pisser if hornbachpol tomorrow announced that they have cad already produced for every single loco thats ever run in the uk since the birth of the railways 

It would destroy the wish list threads.

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2 minutes ago, Legend said:

Wonder what the mags will think of his press release . Will they even publish it . Can they, as it appears it may be factually incorrect?

 

Well, It will probably be used as a discussion point, probably quoted and paraphrased instead of the whole thing published, but we shall see. I dare say only one or two of the mags will make a thing of it. 

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7 minutes ago, big jim said:

wouldnt it be a pisser if hornbachpol tomorrow announced that they have cad already produced for every single loco thats ever run in the uk since the birth of the railways and at 17:00 today got the lot registered with HMG

 

From a previous post

It seems like he registered them in Sept 2018.

 

Cheers,

Mick

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  • RMweb Gold
13 minutes ago, Brinkly said:

 

That is my interpretation Jim, I might be wrong of course, but I think he (DJM) has got hold of the wrong end of the stick over IP Laws.

 

30 minutes ago, Trains4U said:

 

Anyone can produce an APT in OO if they have the means - Just as long as they don't use DJ Models CADs

 

14 minutes ago, Pre Grouping fan said:

 

By the sounds of it the IP only protects your design so doesnt stop anyone from doing a model themselves as long as they dont use your drawing 

 

Enuff said.

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1 hour ago, Oldddudders said:

If I commission someone to develop CAD images, does the IP vest with him or me? After all, he was paid by me to do the work, and without my commission, the work would not have been done. I do wonder if this might be part of DJ's problem? Yes, he did the work, but did others feel they owned the result?

 

Were binding contracts on signed documents put in place at the outset, or was a handshake the trigger for work to start? We may never know.

Well. James Dyson was commisioned by Vax to design a bagless domestic vacuum cleaner for them - which he did.

He then decided to set up a company and make said vacuum cleaner himself after being paid by someone else to design it for them.

He then sued Vax for making "his" vacuum cleaner. He lost

Later on when Vax were developing their bagless cleaner he sued them again for copying "his" ideas and lost again.

 

Dj Models?

 

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  • RMweb Premium

As the announcement specifically covers 00 and N scales, it suggests that DJM is not intending to offer gauge 0 models and hence anyone wishing to offer the Baby Deltic and J94 can now do so without fear of legal action! What a waste of 6 years on those projects. 

 

Just so long as it's not LLC. Life's too short.

 

Dava  

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10 minutes ago, Legend said:

Wonder what the mags will think of his press release . Will they even publish it . Can they, as it appears it may be factually incorrect?

Good point. I cannot see them publishing. It is factually incorrect. Whoever owns the IP of the CADs decides who can use those CADs but anyone can create their own CADs of the same prototype. That has always been the case. As I said before if this due to a dispute over the ownership of the DJM CADs then I can understand the reasoning but to think that just by doing a CAD you prevent anyone else creating their own CAD and making a model is pure and simple nonsense. The  fact that DJM could issue a statement like this and promote it in advance as if it was a major development makes me seriously question the competence involved. End of the road stuff. 

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21 minutes ago, Damo666 said:

 

Not that I subscribe to DJMs stance in today's announcement, but if Accurascale have a more detailed roof and a more detailed bogie, would this be a sufficient change?

 

It'll be interesting to see how this pans out.

 

I doubt it'll all come down to the pan, or down to the wire, for that matter ;)

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2 minutes ago, newbryford said:

With Brexit discussions seemingly taking a back seat, along comes this thread to fill the entertainment void...............

 

 

Mate, It beats me looking at Reddit and watching Parliament live, god I felt like I'd had me poor brain ripped out following that stuff...

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3 minutes ago, newbryford said:

With Brexit discussions seemingly taking a back seat, along comes this thread to fill the entertainment void...............

You mean we haven't left yet?:jester:

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1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

 

 

 

Enuff said.

 

the posts on here make it far clearer than the announcement IF WE ARE CORRECT in assuming its just to prevent someone ripping off DJ's cad but i suspect it may be far wider reaching

 

its this bit of the gubbins in the announcment that gets me.......

 

Well, if read correctly it could be a complete end to duplication of models, as those who IP them first will literally be in the ‘driving seat’.

 

Obviously there would be nothing wrong with anyone producing a rival ‘Mk6 Flange Express XR1’ model, but there would be problems with producing one which would, if you were trying to be as accurate as possible, infringe on others’ IP and the percentage it has to be different by the allowed amount specified by HMG, for it not to encroach on a registered IP of the ‘Mk6 Flange Express XR1’.

 

Obviously there would be nothing wrong with anyone producing a rival ‘Mk6 Flange Express XR1’ model, but there would be problems with producing one which would, if you were trying to be as accurate as possible, infringe on others’ IP and the percentage it has to be different by the allowed amount specified by HMG

 

i get the protecting your own work side of things if you have developed a revolutionary coupling/drivetrain/lighting system, id be pretty narked if id have invested time and money into something only for someone to rip it off from my drawings but how the buggery flip do you make a loco bodyshell a "certain percent different" as to not infringe on IP, shove a few windows here and there that aren't on the real thing, a few extra exhaust ports, piglet retarders on the roof, pizza oven in the grille

 

the whole thing puts me in mind of this......... 

 

 

 

 

Edited by big jim
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