'Genesis' 4 & 6 wheel coaches in OO Gauge - New Announcement

[Michael Hodgson]

What of future possibilities?

 

A lot of these coaches in most liveries sold out on pre-order, so there is clearly unsatisfied demand.  I missed out on the LMS ones.  Normally when this happens, there is another run after an interval to confirm the situation, perhaps with different running numbers.  But in this case there are still announced versions not yet produced, including Batch 3 (NER, GER. Caley, Met, SDJR, Longmoor, and more departmentals) which doesn't even seem to have the go-ahead yet.  Whyever not - is the profit margin lower than we are all assumin to be the case?  But if those also do well there could be a business case for a Batch 4 consisting of more obscure liveries (ECJS/WCJS - or does the market want those  to be 12-wheelers?).  And we've seen the Generator coach which hadn't formed part of the original plan, so maybe some other rabbits from Hatton's hat?

 

The Big 4 liveries were always going to be more popular, but if another run is done for a given company, will it necessarily be the same version of that company's livery?  Given that details such as type of lighting are configurable from a range of options, a rerun is likely to be a different combination of vehicles as well as different running numbers without needing significant tooling changes.

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, Michael Hodgson said:

The Big 4 liveries were always going to be more popular, but if another run is done for a given company, will it necessarily be the same version of that company's livery?  Given that details such as type of lighting are configurable from a range of options, a rerun is likely to be a different combination of vehicles as well as different running numbers without needing significant tooling changes.

Quite

The GWR ones so released were in late Victorian/Edwardian condition, so I would imagine there is an untapped demand for post grouping versions, like the other big 4 companies.

Something else currently not modelled could be clerestory roofs on the same bodies.

This could run & run, provided Hattons are making enough cash from them.

Edited October 30, 2022 by melmerby

[PhilJ W]

4 hours ago, longchap said:

Ah, the early birds seem to have taken them all then. Sorry you missed out Phil. They really are much better than most people wanted to give Hattons credit for. However, many more GWR items materialised after their release and confirmed sold out status, so be vigilant and you may yet have a Departmental New Year.

 

Cup half full 😀

 

4 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Failing that. if you're that keen on them, chances are there will soon be some on ebay, albeit at over the odds .

It looks as if I will have to look to the less popular liveries and get the paint and brushes out.

[Michael Hodgson]

13 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

 

It looks as if I will have to look to the less popular liveries and get the paint and brushes out.

Of course one of the things that appeals to many of us about these coaches is that the intricate liveries that the factory can produce on panelled stock are a lot better than some of us can manage with our paintbrushes. 

[PhilJ W]

23 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Of course one of the things that appeals to many of us about these coaches is that the intricate liveries that the factory can produce on panelled stock are a lot better than some of us can manage with our paintbrushes. 

Indeed, but I want to convert them to departmental use where liveries are usually basic. Another advantage is that door furniture can be removed to represent sealed doors. 

[Michael Hodgson]

34 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

Indeed, but I want to convert them to departmental use where liveries are usually basic. Another advantage is that door furniture can be removed to represent sealed doors. 

If you're planning to modify the bodywork, surely they'll need a repaint anyway, so it doesn't matter whether they were in departmental livery to start with - just look for the cheapest with a suitable configuration (ie probably not gas-lit)?  Unfortunately I doubt any will be cheap, even second hand.

[woodenhead]

1 hour ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Of course one of the things that appeals to many of us about these coaches is that the intricate liveries that the factory can produce on panelled stock are a lot better than some of us can manage with our paintbrushes. 

I watched a video yesterday of a chap using spraypaint and a lot of stencils to produce a very good mural of the classic Disney Peter Pan and the children flying on his daughters bedroom wall.  There was nearly one stencil per colour and each had to be perfectly overlaid on the base image shapes to perfectly align.  Of course being a made for social media video it went perfectly apart from some over spray on the wall when he went mad with the black spray at the end, but it was a very complex build of colours.

 

I would never have attempted it, and this was a large mural on a wall, not a small 4mm carriage.

[PhilJ W]

8 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

I watched a video yesterday of a chap using spraypaint and a lot of stencils to produce a very good mural of the classic Disney Peter Pan and the children flying on his daughters bedroom wall.  There was nearly one stencil per colour and each had to be perfectly overlaid on the base image shapes to perfectly align.  Of course being a made for social media video it went perfectly apart from some over spray on the wall when he went mad with the black spray at the end, but it was a very complex build of colours.

 

I would never have attempted it, and this was a large mural on a wall, not a small 4mm carriage.

That is exactly how the liveries are applied. Using masks for each colour and tampo printing for numbers etc. 

[PhilJ W]

36 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

If you're planning to modify the bodywork, surely they'll need a repaint anyway, so it doesn't matter whether they were in departmental livery to start with - just look for the cheapest with a suitable configuration (ie probably not gas-lit)?  Unfortunately I doubt any will be cheap, even second hand.

Just 'patch paint' the affected area and a bit of weathering.

[That Model Railway Guy]

My LBSCR coaches arrived over the weekend so I put together a quick video. I'm very impressed, they look great behind my Terrier and run really well too - although the lights do flicker on the 6 wheel coach a little as it seems to be rocking on it's centre axle. 

 

Skip ahead to 9.25 if you just want to see them running. 🙂

 

 

[Coppercap]

31 minutes ago, That Model Railway Guy said:

My LBSCR coaches arrived over the weekend so I put together a quick video. I'm very impressed, they look great behind my Terrier and run really well too - although the lights do flicker on the 6 wheel coach a little as it seems to be rocking on it's centre axle. 

 

Skip ahead to 9.25 if you just want to see them running. 🙂

 

 

Have you since managed to identify why that coach has flickering lights? I have one GWR coach (out of fifteen) that does that, randomly and on plain track just like yours. Cleaned wheels an contacts - still the same.  I think I'll try swapping the roof with a 'good' one next, to see if the fault moves with it.

[amdaley]

37 minutes ago, That Model Railway Guy said:

My LBSCR coaches arrived over the weekend so I put together a quick video. I'm very impressed, they look great behind my Terrier and run really well too - although the lights do flicker on the 6 wheel coach a little as it seems to be rocking on it's centre axle. 

 

Skip ahead to 9.25 if you just want to see them running. 🙂

 

 

 

Thank you for the review.

Really interesting & very comprehensive.

I wonder if anyone else has problems with the lighting & have any ideas what the problem might be ?

[That Model Railway Guy]

54 minutes ago, Coppercap said:

Have you since managed to identify why that coach has flickering lights?

 

I'm not 100% certain but the 6 wheel coach seems to rock on the centre axle which lifts the wheels up at each end very slightly. I'm guessing the lights need consistent power from both sets of the outer wheels and if not they flicker on and off as the coach rocks while moving. 

 

I'm planning to remove the centre wheel set at some point so I'll report back on whether that makes any difference.

[Tramshed]

4 hours ago, That Model Railway Guy said:

My LBSCR coaches arrived over the weekend so I put together a quick video. I'm very impressed, they look great behind my Terrier and run really well too - although the lights do flicker on the 6 wheel coach a little as it seems to be rocking on it's centre axle. 

 

Skip ahead to 9.25 if you just want to see them running. 🙂

 

 

Nice review. Thanks for sharing. In it you mention two features that puzzle you (and maybe others) which I will attempt to resolve. The first concerned the spare steps. Hattons have supplied these as replacements for the steps fitted as shipped. As I believe someone has mentioned several pages ago, some early stations were little more than wayside halts without full height platforms. To allow passengers to board, there were two step boards to climb. Perhaps later in the development of the railways these halts were either dispensed with or fitted with conventional platforms. There are some tiny screws to undo to replace the '2-step' footboard units with the replacement single step.

The second apparent oddity concerned the different colours given to the seats in the first class compartments leading you to speculate whether there was a further sub-division within that class. I can only suggest that close examination of the windows may point to the answer as the difference reflects 'smoking' and 'non smoking' compartments. This displays still further attention to detail on the part of Hattons. I don't know if it is a feature of the LB&SCR or whether it was practice among other companies too.

Edited October 31, 2022 by Tramshed
correction

[Compound2632]

2 minutes ago, Tramshed said:

As I believe someone has mentioned several pages ago, some early stations were little more than wayside halts without full height platforms. To allow passengers to board, there were two step boards to climb. Perhaps later in the development of the railways these halts were either dispensed with or fitted with conventional platforms.

 

Rather, pretty well all stations, of whatever degree of grandeur, started out with low platforms - 1' 6" above rail level was typical, with the platform sloping gently towards the edge. The standard height for new work increased as the 19th century wore on, 2' 6" being specified in the Board of Trade requirements by 1885 and 3' 0" by 1902 [here]. But it was many years before older platforms were brought up to the turn-of-the-century standard - and this was the majority of stations, since the bulk of the railway system was in place by the 1880s.

 

9 minutes ago, Tramshed said:

The second apparent oddity concerned the different colours given to the seats in the first class compartments leading you to speculate whether there was a further sub-division within that class. I can only suggest that close examination of the windows may point to the answer as the difference reflects 'smoking' and 'non smoking' compartments. This displays still further attention to detail on the part of Hattons. I don't know if it is a feature of the SECR or whether it was practice among other companies too.

 

It was usual, in the 19th century at least, for smoking compartments to be given leather upholstery, which would be brown / red in colour, in contrast to the blue cloth generally used for first class. Up until at least the Great War, the railways only grudgingly permitted smoking - it had been illegal under the bylaws of the early companies.

 

A superb example of this can be seen in the Lynton & Barnstaple's superbly restored brake composite No. 17. The full 6-seater first class compartment is in the usual blue cloth:

 

 

while the 3-seat observation coupe is fitted out in red leather:

 

 

However, smoking is not permitted anywhere on their trains, in accordance with current legislation.

[amdaley]

If anyone is interested Hattons have Southern, LNER Pre War brown & LBSCR coaches in stock at the moment.

I think all of these were supposed to be sold out on pre order ?

[phil-b259]

1 minute ago, amdaley said:

If anyone is interested Hattons have Southern, LNER Pre War brown & LBSCR coaches in stock at the moment.

I think all of these were supposed to be sold out on pre order ?

 

As with the GWR ones if those pre-orders have incorrect card details and the original purchaser doesn't respond to requests to update their details / cannot be contacted then the pre-order will be cancelled and the stock made available to buy.

 

 

[johnhutnick]

I am in the US.  As a general comment, I ordered some GWR 4 and 6 wheel on September 15, and more 4 wheel on October 4.  Other than a credit card processing situation, I had no problem ordering.

Now my opinion may be different from some here.  If it looks nice, says GWR on the side, is brown & cream, I am satisfied.  I do not care if the car is not quite right, length off, etc.  It would take me forever building and painting to get the final product that Hatton's sells to us as a finished item.  I just play with trains.

[Coppercap]

There is an error I have only just noticed - and it's only on the GWR 6-wheel brake 3rd - the oil lamps don't align with the compartments, though the illustration on the box is correct, in that they do align. Interestingly, Hattons own videos of the GWR coaches show them in the correct position, as does Sam's Trains review of pre-production samples.

This appears to be a production error - the other liveries, as far as I can see, have the lamps correctly aligned. Or maybe the 5-compartment roof has deliberately been used, minus one lamp - factory saving on costs, perhaps? Seems a bit odd to get this wrong when everything else looks so good...

I wonder if Hattons are aware of this?

The 4-wheel brake 3rd has them correctly aligned, as do all the other GWR variants. (Hattons website images)

Edited October 31, 2022 by Coppercap

[TheEngineShed]

Good catch!  I have the other numbered GWR 6-wheel brake third and it is the same, oil lamps are not centered over two of the passenger compartments...

[melmerby]

2 hours ago, Coppercap said:

There is an error I have only just noticed - and it's only on the GWR 6-wheel brake 3rd - the oil lamps don't align with the compartments, though the illustration on the box is correct,

Interesting

I'll check mine tomorrow, as I have 2 x GWR 6BT as well as  1x SR 6BT

[Coppercap]

24 minutes ago, TheEngineShed said:

Good catch!  I have the other numbered GWR 6-wheel brake third and it is the same, oil lamps are not centered over two of the passenger compartments...

Those images aren't mine, they are from the Hattons website, which suggests they are photos of production models, not the pre-production samples. I have two 6-wheel brake 3rds - one of which is from the 4-coach pack. Both have the same, wrongly-spaced-lamps roofs.

Edited October 31, 2022 by Coppercap

[melmerby]

5 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 The full 6-seater first class compartment is in the usual blue cloth:

Lincrusta ceiling paper as well (expensive if genuine)

 

My wife worked with a chap that was restoring his coach on SVR and he used Lincrusta.

[Coppercap]

You can see here how the lamps were in the correct position above the compartments on a 'decorated sample' back a year ago... 

[amdaley]

Has anyone contacted Hattons about this problem?