'Genesis' 4 & 6 wheel coaches in OO Gauge - New Announcement

[Stefen1988]

I'm working in the IT....

 

We have "clips" for careful opening of Notebook cases - they look like guitar picks. Those can also be found in mobile phone or Notebook repair kits for custom use.

Edited November 4, 2022 by Stefen1988

[D3489gibson]

Did a quick comparison of the genesis LBSCR and Hornby LBSCR Coaches before I left for work last night, and if I'm honest, the shades seem to be similar if not the same... I should stress, my Hornby coach has seen a fair bit of sunlight abuse, so may be slightly lighter because of this... 

[longchap]

A remarkable colour balance indeed, you must be pleased.

 

Are there a couple of oil lamps missing from the Hornby, or is it an open?

[toby_tl10]

45 minutes ago, longchap said:

Are there a couple of oil lamps missing from the Hornby, or is it an open?

All images show it's the correct number of lamps (R40118). How Hornby came to that design, I don't have the knowledge.

[Pre Grouping fan]

49 minutes ago, toby_tl10 said:

All images show it's the correct number of lamps (R40118). How Hornby came to that design, I don't have the knowledge.

 

3rd class didn't have compartment walls above the bench seats so they are open inside which Hornby have correctly modelled on their interiors. this meant you got the luxury of one lamp between the 3 compartments and 1 for the guard. 

[Compound2632]

1 minute ago, Pre Grouping fan said:

3rd class didn't have compartment walls above the bench seats so they are open inside which Hornby have correctly modelled on their interiors. this meant you got the luxury of one lamp between the 3 compartments and 1 for the guard. 

 

As a general statement, that's a bit too sweeping. There were third class carriages without full height partitions but by the 1880s full height partitions were normal. Rather...

 

55 minutes ago, toby_tl10 said:

All images show it's the correct number of lamps (R40118). How Hornby came to that design, I don't have the knowledge.

 

... Hornby's 4-wheel third is based on the LBSC block train thirds of 1872, which had low partitions and a single lamp serving the three compartments. There were variations or possibly modifications, with some having two lamps to the three compartments:

 

 

[Embedded link to Basilica Fields website.] 

[Nick Holliday]

4 hours ago, D3489gibson said:

Did a quick comparison of the Genesis LBSCR and Hornby LBSCR Coaches before I left for work last night

@D3489gibson 's photo highlights something that has disappointed me about the Genesis coaches, and represents a wasted opportunity on Hattons' part. As can be clearly seen, both coaches are roughly the same height, with a shallow arc roof.  For the Hornby range, rather unashamedly based on LBSCR practice, the profile is pure Stroudley, and when you compare it with other stock they do look, correctly, low.  This was highlighted in an early Hornby video, which showed their coaches being pulled by a large, post-grouping, tank loco, and looking more like a Talgo train! 

When the Hattons' project was announced, and once the design discussions on RMweb had settled down, I did an early appraisal, which appeared in LBSCR Modellers' Digest 12.  Based on the drawings and images available at the time, I had persuaded  myself that the roof profile was close to the later higher, Billlinton, profile, and that the proposed 28' four-wheelers would be an excellent match for the batch of coaches Billinton produced in the latter part of the 1890's, although I appreciated that the guard's end and duckets would need some alterations. In view of the encouragement of the cognoscenti providing advice, I had expected the roof to reflect the more modern styling and length proposed.  On the same basis, I concluded that the Hattons' six-wheelers would be, mainly, a reasonable match for the LBSC stock produced through the 1890's and beyond. (Brighton bogie coaches with a similar roof line were being built into the 1920's) I then pre-ordered a short rake of the four-wheelers, as they have never been produced in etched brass format, having plenty of kits for all the other styles.  

The coaches have now arrived, and, as the photo above shows, their roof profile is virtually identical to the Hornby/Stroudley one. For me, that means that I will have to source new ends and roofs for all of them to create a more accurate model, and @ianmaccormac is looking into this, but for everyone else there is the issue that the Hattons' stock will look similarly dwarfed, even by slightly more modern pre-grouping carriages, such as the forthcoming LSWR stock and Bachmann SECR birdcages.  The low profile was very much a child of the 1870's, and although it was used on some early six-wheeled stock on various lines, they were generally much shorter, say 28 feet long, and usually disappeared around the turn of the century, whereas the majority of 6-wheelers carried the higher arc roof, or more complex shapes, and these would have had a longer life.

Instead of being able to create a mixture of H&H items, with an interesting up and down profile as above, (Stroudley third and first coaches sandwiching a Billinton third) any mixture will lose that character, but all will contrast sharply with most bogie stock, or kit-built items. Instead of the Hattons' range complementing the Hornby one, it is competing with it, which I am sure will affect sales of both ranges, and offering far less variety.

From a Brighton modeller's perspective, the report I prepared in Modellers' Digest 13, covering the Hornby six-wheelers, is a more accurate reflection of the suitability of the Hattons' 6w ones, apart from the full brake.  An odd point is that Hattons are marketing the LBSCR stock as being in Umber Livery, whereas they are plainly in a rendition of mahogany finish, as the heading photo shows.  I wonder what they will call the proper umber if they get round to producing it?

[Butler Henderson]

6 hours ago, D3489gibson said:

Did a quick comparison of the genesis LBSCR and Hornby LBSCR Coaches before I left for work last night, and if I'm honest, the shades seem to be similar if not the same... I should stress, my Hornby coach has seen a fair bit of sunlight abuse, so may be slightly lighter because of this... 

 

Mine are the same and the Hornby one has primarily been in the shade.

Edited November 5, 2022 by Butler Henderson

[Butler Henderson]

On 20/09/2022 at 19:07, SteamingWales said:

Bit more curiosity, the body comes of pretty easily

Does that need any screws undoing or is just a clip fit?  Want to tap the pick ups to run via conductive couplers (bought cheap off ebay) to my Hornby ones so I can ditch the batteries. The original idea had been use the output from the decoder but think it will be simpler and make for neater wring to use a separate decoder for them.

[Coppercap]

2 hours ago, Butler Henderson said:

Does that need any screws undoing or is just a clip fit?  Want to tap the pick ups to run via conductive couplers (bought cheap off ebay) to my Hornby ones so I can ditch the batteries. The original idea had been use the output from the decoder but think it will be simpler and make for neater wring to use a separate decoder for them.

Just remove two screws underneath, then the body pulls off the chassis fairly easy, overcoming the hold of some small clips.

[melmerby]

7 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

 

 

[Embedded link to Basilica Fields website.] 

Interesting to note that even these relatively small coaches dwarf the Terrier!

 

No.70 is still with us on K & ES Railway.

 

[D3489gibson]

Northfleet show this weekend, and our clu  BWWMRC has two layouts in attendance. Cedar Court wagon works, and Staple and Ash EKR. The SR coaches look at home on SA. 

[Ollie K]

I pre-ordered a pack of the GNR and the LNER Genesis coaches and a full brake for each. In August I got the email saying Hattons was unable to fulfil my order so it would be cancelled. Disappointing, but hardly serious in the way of the world right now.

 

Thanks to this thread, I saw that LNER coaches had become available again last week, and ordered the same pack I’d missed out on before. The box set of four arrived today, promptly and well packaged. I’m very satisfied with the product, but it would’ve been even better if Hattons had perhaps notified those of us who lost our original orders that the items were healthily back in stock again…

 

Anyway, well done Hattons on some very impressive rolling stock, thanks RMweb for the heads up that they were in stock, and fingers crossed some of the GNR ones become available again in due course. 

Edited November 7, 2022 by OliverBytham

[melmerby]

I've just added a couple more SR olive and an LNER brown to my trunk, they were at one point OOS.

[rovex]

I must say the second hand market for these is buoyant. A six wheel tool van in BR black sold on eBay for over eighty quid.

 

Think I'll wait and see if Hattons does a second run.

[barrymx5]

Maybe others were as confused as me by the Tool Van and Full Brake in SR livery. Apart from the lining only being on the Full Brake the exquisite lettering on the doors is also different. The Tool Van has one compartment for seating.

Photo below shows the 2 side by side. Full Brake is of course on left. 

[Compound2632]

9 minutes ago, barrymx5 said:

Maybe others were as confused as me by the Tool Van and Full Brake in SR livery. Apart from the lining only being on the Full Brake the exquisite lettering on the doors is also different. The Tool Van has one compartment for seating.

 

The full brake represents a vehicle in revenue service and hence is in the full fig of Southern passenger livery of Maunsell's day; the tool van represents a vehicle withdrawn from revenue service and assigned to departmental use; hence the plainer livery. It has one compartment retained for staff; the partitions in the rest of the vehicle will have been removed, with lockers etc. for tools installed. On a real vehicle, I would expect some of the compartment doors to have been sealed up with the hinges etc. removed.

 

Is the "Tools" labelling of the doors a real Southern thing? 

[Hattons Dave]

Hi guys,

 

We have been asked by many customers if we can offer separate lighting packs to retro-fit to previously unlit coaches. I am pleased to announce that we now have these available to pre-order, here: https://www.hattons.co.uk/newsdetail?id=1275

 

These are priced at £7 each for a single 4 or 6 coach light pack or £25 for a pack of 2 x 4-wheel and 2 x 6-wheel units.

 

All coaches from batch 2 onwards will be supplied unlit only with the option to buy lighting packs to fit yourself. It is extremely easy to do this and can be done in a matter of minutes. This is detailed in the article above.

 

Cheers,

Dave

[SDJR7F88]

5 minutes ago, Hattons Dave said:

All coaches from batch 2 onwards will be supplied unlit only with the option to buy lighting packs to fit yourself. It is extremely easy to do this and can be done in a matter of minutes. This is detailed in the article above.

 

Is there any confirmation when pre-orders for liveries in batch 3 can be placed?  

[johnd]

45 minutes ago, Hattons Dave said:

Hi guys,

 

We have been asked by many customers if we can offer separate lighting packs to retro-fit to previously unlit coaches. I am pleased to announce that we now have these available to pre-order, here: https://www.hattons.co.uk/newsdetail?id=1275

 

These are priced at £7 each for a single 4 or 6 coach light pack or £25 for a pack of 2 x 4-wheel and 2 x 6-wheel units.

 

All coaches from batch 2 onwards will be supplied unlit only with the option to buy lighting packs to fit yourself. It is extremely easy to do this and can be done in a matter of minutes. This is detailed in the article above.

 

Cheers,

Dave

 

 What is going to happen to those people that have pre ordered lighted versions from batch 2 are you going to pre fit lighting or are you going to automatically supply lighting kits with there appropriate coaches ?

 

[Free At Last]

10 minutes ago, johnd said:

 

 What is going to happen to those people that have pre ordered lighted versions from batch 2 are you going to pre fit lighting or are you going to automatically supply lighting kits with there appropriate coaches ?

 

From the link supplied in their post...  

Quote

If you have a pre-order for lit coaches with us, there is nothing you need to do, we will swap the lit versions over to the standard versions and add the packs required to your order.

 

[JohnR]

48 minutes ago, Free At Last said:

From the link supplied in their post...  

 

There will be a price increase if you have ordered one of the packs of coaches though. So you'll pay £5 more. 

[Hattons Dave]

2 hours ago, SDJR7F88 said:

Is there any confirmation when pre-orders for liveries in batch 3 can be placed?  

Not right now but we are hoping to have more news on Batch 3 once we are further along with batch 2.

 

58 minutes ago, JohnR said:

There will be a price increase if you have ordered one of the packs of coaches though. So you'll pay £5 more. 

Just to confirm, almost all products will be the same price or will actually be cheaper this way. The only items affected by the £5 increase are H4-46Pack-1401L and H4-46Pack-1501L, this is due to the unit price of the lighting packs.

[Hattons Dave]

Hi guys,

 

With the first of our newly tooled Genesis coaches now with customers, we have been inundated with suggestions for other liveries to produce. There has been one standout suggestion that we have decided to append onto our Batch 2 run, the Irish Railways CIE colours.

CIE had a fleet of 6-wheel coaches inherited from many of the old companies of Ireland, with the ex-GSWR fleet being one of the most prominent. This is what we have used for inspiration for the livery application for our coaches, as the features closely resemble the prototype.

 

We are not just producing 1 livery however, we are covering all 3 liveries that CIE used with this type of coach:

• CIE Dark green (used until early 1960s)
• CIE Light green (used Late 1950s to Mid 1960s)
• CIE black & tan (used Early 1960s)

These coaches are priced the same as the rest of the range, with single coaches available at £33 and a pack of 4 (in Dark Green livery only) priced at £120. They will launch in Late 2023/ Early 2024 along with our other Batch 2 coaches.

 

View the full announcement HERE

[Compound2632]

I'm surprised that Irish liveries weren't announced sooner. The CIE liveries pretty much count as Modern Image! I must dig out the Irish Carriages book I've got somewhere.* Many of the long-surviving 6-wheelers originated with the GS&WR, where they were painted claret. What was Great Southern livery? 

 

Appropriate RTR locos are (or have been) available from 00 Works - the ubiquitous GS&WR Class 101 / GSR J15 0-6-0 and the rather less useful,** though undoubtedly charming, CB&SCR / GSR J24 0-6-0ST. 

 

*Desmond Coakham, Irish Broad Gauge Carriages: a Pictorial Introduction. I can't find my copy...

 

**Because there were only five of them and they were confined to the CB&SCR, with only three seeing any service with the GSR, by which time they were all different, only one being classed J24 per the 00 Works model.

Edited November 14, 2022 by Compound2632