New tooling - BR Standard 2MT 2-6-0 2MT 78xxx

[Ighten]

1 minute ago, Paul.Uni said:

Because it hasn't had an actual official announcement yet.

 

What we have had:

1. A hint it would be announced at the following annual announcement. It wasn’t.

2. The accidental publication and subsequent removal of the product page.

3. A livery sample shown at a model railway show. IIRC it was shown alongside the then to be annouced club LNER P2 model.

4. Mentions of it in the club magazine.

Ah.. that makes sense then.. can't say I read much of the club magazine. Tend to drop it off at the heritage railways charity mag rack.

[TomScrut]

10 minutes ago, Paul.Uni said:

Because it hasn't had an actual official announcement yet.

 

What we have had:

1. A hint it would be announced at the following annual announcement. It wasn’t.

2. The accidental publication and subsequent removal of the product page.

3. A livery sample shown at a model railway show. IIRC it was shown alongside the then to be annouced club LNER P2 model.

4. Mentions of it in the club magazine.

 

On top of that, I do recall seeing an advert or something teasing it (with a pic that made it obvious what loco was being talked about).

[Pre Grouping fan]

The thumbnail images for R3836 (78047) & R3838 (78010) have been changed from artwork drawings to photos of the actual models, hopefully thats a sign that those are coming into stock.

[simmo009]

The drawbar doesn't look very robust,  with the amount of time these have taken, they would have been able to incorporate one like the P2.

[HExpressD]

10 hours ago, simmo009 said:

The drawbar doesn't look very robust,  with the amount of time these have taken, they would have been able to incorporate one like the P2.

Not really how that works, it took this long to get it out with the design as it was, any changes would have meant potential chassis retools and even more delay. People have been moaning about this delay for three years, and now you want more!

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

On 24/07/2023 at 09:11, HExpressD said:

The same style coupling bar which has been used on pretty much every Hornby model for at least ten years? I don't think there are any issues with it, I think people would have heard of them by now!

Hornby have consistently 'flubbed' on this item since they failed to continue with the correctly positioned drawbar on the Britannia in 2006 (possibly also on the later Clan, but have never had one to look at). Every single Hornby tender loco that I have purchased since has been worked on to improve the drawbar, and based on correspondence online I am far from the only one doing this.

 

Bachmann have demonstrated the ideal method since the WD 2-8-0 appeared in 1999, a drawbar through the dragboxes engaging a pin under the tender, icing the cake by mounting the pin on a user adjustable screw locked slide. And then abandoning this very recently on the V2 with a clumsy and ineffectual camming mount plug in connector, which appears to be a current 'fashion item', which  in my opinion cannot be too swiftly banished to Model Railway Hades, with reversion to the previous most effective method...

[phil-b259]

13 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

 

 

Bachmann have demonstrated the ideal method since the WD 2-8-0 appeared in 1999, a drawbar through the dragboxes engaging a pin under the tender, icing the cake by mounting the pin on a user adjustable screw locked slide.

 

The danger with this solution is it ignores the fact that there are a whole bundle of wires which need to go between the loco and tender these days - and if your drawbar comes apart 'easily' then there is a chance the strain will be taken by the wires (or their terminations to be more precise) which can cause damage.

 

Therefore it is desirable to either have the loco and tender permanently coupled by a drawbar which is screwed into both loco AND tender - or go for an all in one coupler like Dapol have been using where the electrical connections and physical coupling are handled in a common 'snap fit' connector.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

51 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

The danger with this solution is it ignores the fact that there are a whole bundle of wires which need to go between the loco and tender these days

Zero incidences of this trouble on many dozens of tender locos with this style of drawbar system (as supplied or as modified by myself) with wiring going between loco and tender.

 

The only danger would be someone who considers the 'grab the tender and swing the loco around your head while holding it' test, a useful measure of build quality.

 

56 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

...go for an all in one coupler like Dapol have been using where the electrical connections and physical coupling are handled in a common 'snap fit' connector.

No thanks, they significantly degrade appearance of the loco and tender ensemble, and the examples I have had on purchases to date redouble on that by not functioning well either.

 

 

 

[HExpressD]

2 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

Hornby have consistently 'flubbed' on this item since they failed to continue with the correctly positioned drawbar on the Britannia in 2006 (possibly also on the later Clan, but have never had one to look at). Every single Hornby tender loco that I have purchased since has been worked on to improve the drawbar, and based on correspondence online I am far from the only one doing this.

 

41 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

Zero incidences of this trouble on many dozens of tender locos with this style of drawbar system (as supplied or as modified by myself) with wiring going between loco and tender.

I think you potentially risk mixing your personal experience with what Hornby will know to be true. FWIW I've never had any trouble with any Hornby loco with the fixed drawbar and wire arrangement. 

[Hilux5972]

7 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

No thanks, they significantly degrade appearance of the loco and tender ensemble,

Do you watch your trains by getting your eyeline right down to track level? That must be uncomfortable. 

[phil-b259]

8 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

 

 

No thanks, they significantly degrade appearance of the loco and tender ensemble, and the examples I have had on purchases to date redouble on that by not functioning well either.

 

 

 

 

Well if I read it, right get ready to be disappointed because with Dapol and Hornby adopting an 'all in one / snap fit' loco to tender drawbar its only a matter of time before everyone else follows suit.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

2 hours ago, Hilux5972 said:

Do you watch your trains by getting your eyeline right down to track level? That must be uncomfortable. 

I watch from equivalent to 'standing lineside' position. My layout is at a much higher than usual level and viewed from a bar stool; something I learned from a late American colleague's 'basement empire'. 

 

1 hour ago, phil-b259 said:

Well if I read it right, get ready to be disappointed because with Dapol and Hornby adopting an 'all in one / snap fit' loco to tender drawbar its only a matter of time before everyone else follows suit.

Already purchased models with this type of fitting from Bachmann and Rapido (V2, Stirling single). However, have tools, can and will modify if the model justifies the work, and these two certainly do.

[Porcy Mane]

To get back to the model, for those "eagerly anticipating"  (to use the yoochube influencers term) the arrival of this loco, CMC have a release date of the 31 August 2023 on their website.

 

https://www.cheltenhammodelcentre.com/locomotives/Hornby-r3836-br-standard-2mt-2-6-0-78047-br-black/p-r3836

Edited August 29, 2023 by Porcy Mane

[simmo009]

When do we think Hornby will change the website to Winter 2023? 😆

[SteamingWales]

19 minutes ago, simmo009 said:

When do we think Hornby will change the website to Winter 2023? 😆

 

Already have for 2021/2nd batch models 😅

[Suzy Sulzer]

On 29/08/2023 at 10:15, Porcy Mane said:

To get back to the model, for those "eagerly anticipating"  (to use the yoochube influencers term) the arrival of this loco, CMC have a release date of the 31 August 2023 on their website.

 

https://www.cheltenhammodelcentre.com/locomotives/Hornby-r3836-br-standard-2mt-2-6-0-78047-br-black/p-r3836

 

link says 31st OCTOBER 2023  release date

[Bernard Lamb]

1 hour ago, Suzy Sulzer said:

 

link says 31st OCTOBER 2023  release date

It also says Est Price. So hardly upto date.

Other sources are more detailed and suggest earlier delivery and a better price.

Bernard

[Porcy Mane]

9 hours ago, Suzy Sulzer said:

link says 31st OCTOBER 2023  release date

 

It does now but it said 31st August two days ago. That changed to "Out of stock but can be ordered for delivery in seven to fourteen days" and in the last 24 hours it has changed yet again.  The Hornby 2MT is the first Loco I have ever pre-ordered. That was because my local retailer did not reach Hornby's tier one standard despite meeting all of their criteria and to his credit he advised me to pre order from a tier one retailer. This was when the 2MT was first announced, however long ago that was.

 

2MT was duly ordered from Cheltenham Model Centre and again, all credit to them,  each time Hornby upped the 2MT retail price CMC have contacted me, giving me the option to buy or cancel. A week ago they rang me to confirm payment details as Hornby had informed them that distribution to retailers was imminent.

 

Conclude from that what you will, but it seems like Hornby are still messing their retailers about. Just my opinion but it would appear that Hornby need to be looking & learning at the way the new  kids on the block interact with their retailers & customers.

 

P

Edited September 2, 2023 by Porcy Mane

[PeterStiles]

30 minutes ago, Porcy Mane said:

are still messing their retailers about.

Oh yes, I'm sure that's a valid business strategy...

 

Or, maybe, possibly, Hornby are still suffering from this particularly unhelpful supply chain mucking *them* around. 

 

[Porcy Mane]

20 minutes ago, PeterStiles said:

Or, maybe, possibly, Hornby are still suffering from this particularly unhelpful supply chain mucking *them* around. 

 

Could be, but answer me this. Why tell retailers a product has arrived at the UK distribution centre only to back track a few days later?  and how is it that some  other Hornby products seem to leap frog the supply change problems?

 

Yes the majority of other manufactures have suffered delays in the supply chain for reasons well documented elsewhere but for whatever reason, Hornby seem to suffer more that most with the 2MT being a particularly good example. Where other manufactures tend to offer up reasons for delays Hornby for some time have been giving delivery dates, then as that date approaches...  well you know the rest.

 

My sympathies lie with Hornby retailers.

[PeterStiles]

8 minutes ago, Porcy Mane said:

some  other Hornby products seem to leap frog the supply change problems

Because they have multiple suppliers in different parts of China, subject to different delays...

 

 

But if you _know_ malicious intent I suggest you take it to the authorities because it's rather frowned upon in some circles.

[PeterStiles]

11 minutes ago, Porcy Mane said:

sympathies lie with Hornby retailers.

I don't really know...

 

I think my sympathy lies with a company that's footed £100,000s for some product a couple of years ago that they've not yet made a penny from.

[Bernard Lamb]

2 hours ago, Porcy Mane said:

 

 

 

My sympathies lie with Hornby retailers.

Especially when, according to mine, they were told by Hornby that the new system allowed Hornby to tell them exactly what product would be delivered within two weeks.

Or that is what they told me when they were in touch about two and a half weeks ago when Hornby told them that the locomotives should be with them by the end of the week.

It sems that Hornby are not improving in the area of customer service, trade and retail.

Bernard

[New Haven Neil]

6 minutes ago, Bernard Lamb said:

It sems that Hornby are not improving in the area of customer service, trade and retail.

 

You wouldn't believe how much I don't miss that bolleux since we closed Trackshack!

[Porcy Mane]

36 minutes ago, PeterStiles said:

Because they have multiple suppliers in different parts of China, subject to different delays...

 

As do other other manufacturers.

 

40 minutes ago, PeterStiles said:

But if you _know_ malicious intent I suggest you take it to the authorities because it's rather frowned upon in some circles.

 

Eh?

 

It would appear you're trying to turn a mole hill into a mountain whilst simultaneously tying multiple knots in your underpants.

 

38 minutes ago, PeterStiles said:

I think my sympathy lies with a company that's footed £100,000s for some product a couple of years ago that they've not yet made a penny from.

 

If Hornby delivered by the dates (or near to) the date they have stated on numerous occasions in the past they would have now recouped that investment and probably been in profit on that project.

 

They are a manufacturer. They are in the business of risking the investing of monies to make a profit. Some of that profit comes from supplying retailers via contract.

 

Retailers make their profit from the selling goods supplied by the manufactures and realising a mark up. Less risky for them due to buying on credit and to some degree being able  to plan and budget ahead because they know of approximate delivery dates amongst other factors.

 

Some of Hornby's recent "investments" have been incredibly poor probably realising very little profit but more importantly being for them a complete PR disaster along with loosing themselves a large amount of goodwill. Think about both Titgate & Lady and Lamp. Before that there was the Olympic games paraphernalia fiasco.

 

You seem to have the impression that I have some sort of gripe against Hornby. I don't. Like many, Tri-ang Hornby was the railway manufacture during my formative years and without them probably would never have developed an interest in railways (both prototype and model) along with industrial history. Being a modeller I could have quite happily built a 2MT but decided to support Hornby and buy their product, because, A) it looks to be an excellent model and B) I still feel a bit of nostalgia towards Hornby as a brand.

 

I talk to three model shop owners, two on a regular basis and one not so regular. One area were they share commonality is the frustrations they feel when trying to deal with the "new" Hornby  (and see subsequent posts whilst I've been typing this). They know they make a good product, they have prospective customers wanting to buy that product but cannot give assurances that they will ever receive an allocation. 

Those frustrations probably turn to exasperation when retailers are informed "product X"  will be delivered to you on such and such a date only to be told on delivery day, well actually... once again you know the rest.

 

You wonder why I have sympathy with retailers!