New tooling - BR Standard 2MT 2-6-0 2MT 78xxx

[adb968008]

9 hours ago, Johan DC said:

So, in two posts we go from 'we beter wait till they arrive' to 'the AS Manor will be nr1'...  😄

Anyway, the new Engine Shed can shed some light about what's comming (pun intended):

 

https://uk.Hornby.com/community/blog-and-news/engine-shed/all-aboard-br-standard-class-2mt-loco

 

 

 

Not to knock the manor, but the 78xxx is original work..  The Manor is now thrice completed.

ive seen both close up over the last years, both make extensive use of diecast. Both make extensive use of latest detailing, and latest techniques.

But I have to edge towards rhe 78xxx, purely because the only 78xxx I have was a Hornby 46400 conversion 35 years ago.

 

we are lucky to have it so good, but I am confident Hornby have got this 78xxx right…

 

Edited July 2, 2023 by adb968008

[Dunsignalling]

11 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Not to knock the manor, but the 78xxx is original work..  The Manor is now thrice completed.

ive seen both close up over the last years, both make extensive use of diecast. Both make extensive use of latest detailing, and latest techniques.

But I have to edge towards rhe 78xxx, purely because the only 78xxx I have was a Hornby 46400 conversion 35 years ago.

 

we are lucky to have it so good, but I am confident Hornby have got this 78xxx right…

 

I don't see any relevance to the Manor having been "done" in the days of yore, and twice to modern "mixed media" standards (once the AS one finally materialises).

 

I very much doubt that either Dapol or Accurascale will have re-used any Mainline/Bachmann methodology, though they might well have taken one apart to learn how not to do it! 🙂

 

FWIW, I won't be buying a 78xxx, but only because it's "geographically inappropriate" for my purposes. It looks like being a fine model when it eventually emerges.

 

John 

Edited July 3, 2023 by Dunsignalling

[jonnyuk]

i think the problem is allot of members on here just assume AS will make the best of everything and no other manufacturer even comes close, even wish listing extends to it. If AS did this it would be best loco ever, great clearly allot of crystal ball members, can you tell me the lottery numbers for Friday please.

 

Other manufacturers do make equally as good product, Bachmann consistently make very good stuff on a par with AS, Hornby when they put their mind to it do as well. Dapol's Manor is every bit as good as the AS from the physical models i've seen at shows and also at Rails on display.

[MikeParkin65]

15 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Not to knock the manor, but the 78xxx is original work..  The Manor is now thrice completed.

ive seen both close up over the last years, both make extensive use of diecast. Both make extensive use of latest detailing, and latest techniques.

But I have to edge towards rhe 78xxx, purely because the only 78xxx I have was a Hornby 46400 conversion 35 years ago.

 

we are lucky to have it so good, but I am confident Hornby have got this 78xxx right…

 

Absolutely no argument that the 78xxx is looking to be a fine model.

 

I wonder though what we each take into account when voting for 'model of the year' ? I vote largely on my own experience of the prototype and how closely the new model matches that. Then I look at the features  and finally I consider some of the comments both on this forum and elsewhere. I've voted for Hornby in the past and expect to do so in the future but based on current evidence (bearing in mind neither model is available to buy yet!) the AS Manor is looking exceptional both in quality of rendition, features (twin fitted speakers, close coupling tender mech), packaging and value for money. The 78xxx looks very good Hornby but not necessarily innovative or market leading. And I stand by my comment earlier about the price - its expensive compared to what other manufacturers offer for similar or better specced models of similar size. 

 

[The Black Hat]

1 hour ago, jonnyuk said:

i think the problem is allot of members on here just assume AS will make the best of everything and no other manufacturer even comes close, even wish listing extends to it. If AS did this it would be best loco ever, great clearly allot of crystal ball members, can you tell me the lottery numbers for Friday please.

 

Other manufacturers do make equally as good product, Bachmann consistently make very good stuff on a par with AS, Hornby when they put their mind to it do as well. Dapol's Manor is every bit as good as the AS from the physical models i've seen at shows and also at Rails on display.

 

I think this is also partly wishlisting/dreaming but also because AS are starting from a fresh perspective and as a result can make new models to a high standard, whereas other companies have been replacing models over time and thus have a few that have been in ranges for a bit but would in turn be developed. It also matches perfectly with a step change in model specs which I dub as DCC: The Next Generation. Already most popular diesel classes have been retooled but now with the lighting functions and sound to be running as per prototype. Perviously there was some control but not for all possible outcomes, but now you can. So you can run just like the real thing. This also is matched with steam starting to get light and sound as standard together, whether that be firebox flicker or a working lamp. If thats the case all steam is open for retooling as the ranges can be redone. People look for who they would like at the time - I know as I lobbied hard for Bachmann to make the Q6 some time ago, thinking that was best fit - but now with AS people see what has been done and like the idea of them doing more. This is despite when others decide to - they can still turn out a good model, such as Hornby 60, Bachmanns new 37/47... and some will stick to them and decry AS because they parrot the line they have come to know or will not pay the price models now come at. 

AS are good and their market share soon will mean we are in an era of the big three. Thats no bad thing, but its also no surprise people want the new guys to make their new engine too. 

[adb968008]

We had the Big 4 originally..

 

Hornby, Bachmann, Heljan and Dapol.

The question is with Accurascale in the big 3 with Hornby and Bachmann…

 

has the hobby grown to make a big 5…

 

or

 

has it taken share away from the others ?

 

so far it looks like hobby sector growth in 2021/22 (lockdown years), its this current year i’m unsure of, but we wont know until next years various accounts are published.

 

Behind all of this is a bunch of factories in China, who were making things for the big 4.. now 5 (plus several smaller players).. so even if the market has grown, the production line may not… which could be driving inflation and some jostling for position on the production line, perhaps even fussiness by manufacturer over preference of what to manufacturer (wagons, coaches or more lucrative locos).

 

A big difference to which all should take note, is factories are shared space. Theres no skill change between making a loco for company x vs company y.. The Accurascale difference is clearly the attention to detail backed up by QA (the Manor fire irons tunnel shows this, others may just have let that slip, and ignore the customer squeals).

 

If others upped the game here, it would be a very tight race… afterall many different UK companies are sharing the same factory floor. Detail and QA isnt neccesarily a hard thing, its a trade off of time and cost… However I suspect during covid, inventory of unfinished goods in China has spiked, and pressure will be on to get that out of the door, making QA more important than ever.

if Hornby get it right, aside of the physical, the actual difference between a model 78xx and 78xxx could be very tight and shouldnt be just down to who’s box it is in.

 

Edited July 5, 2023 by adb968008

[Wheatley]

On 03/07/2023 at 11:28, jonnyuk said:

i think the problem is allot of members on here just assume AS will make the best of everything and no other manufacturer even comes close, even wish listing extends to it.

The difference is, I think, that so far Accurascale and Rapido have been consistently good.  Hornby, Bachmann and Dapol have certainly upped their game (the Dapol Class 21/29 is gorgeous) but the baggage of their previous lemons still follows them around. 

[The Stationmaster]

The only way we will ever know who are the 'Big 3, 4. 5' or any other number is if they publish model railway related sales figures,  In their most recent accounts Peco's sales were probably pretty near to entirely model railway related, Bachmann Europe's can't be far off but do include some non-railwau items. Hornby we haven't got a clue, Dapol don't publish turnover in their accounts, I've not even looked at Heljan and neither AS or Rapido publish turnover numbers.

 

So basically we are blundering around in the dark picking up titbits from retailers (who may know better than anyone else where part of the market is spending its money) but even in that category only Hattons publish turnover numbers.  For the rest we have a good idea among ourselves where our individual spending goes but even if we did a poll on RMweb to aggregate those numbers we're likely to be only a small part of the total market.

 

What we can reasonably deduce is that Hornby's share of total model railway spend in Britain has declined -for the simple reason that new,  or reinvigorated, brands have entered the market and are surviving in it which suggests that they are taking and making money out of it.  So that money isn't going to longer established companies.

 

Similarly while we all have our own ideas and opinions, and have picked up some information from various reliable sources along the way, we don't really know what sells and who buys it and that too will affect market shares.  The only thing we can sometimes get at by careful study of bargains offered by retailers is to get an idea of some things which haven't sold but.  But the same time we don't know if that is a tiny percentage of what  was made or is most of it.  But we do know that Hornby has ahuge mountain of unsold 'whatevers' and that bachamann's inunxold has increased a bit.

 

But we can still debate it from what we do know

[jonnyuk]

1 hour ago, Wheatley said:

The difference is, I think, that so far Accurascale and Rapido have been consistently good.  Hornby, Bachmann and Dapol have certainly upped their game (the Dapol Class 21/29 is gorgeous) but the baggage of their previous lemons still follows them around. 

possibly but AS are not immune to QA issues and a good number of their products have "compromises" others would get hammered for, i have 4 that fall into this bracket.

 

AS don't have a back catalogue of baggage, you have to judge manufactures on what they produce now if your going to compare and this was my point. They are all capable of making great products, equal to each other.

[Clive Mortimore]

On 29/06/2023 at 22:52, jimwal said:

 

 

 

We had better wait until they actually arrive in our hands before the accolades are considered.....

Yo Jim mate,

 

Surely steam model locomotive of the year should be ......insert name of locomotive class announced but not in the shops ....by .....insert manufacturer who has announced model.

 

Wot, you have already made one, and it can pull a brick outhouse down !!!!!!!

 

 

Jim makes some lovely locos and they are always good performers.

[Dunsignalling]

2 hours ago, adb968008 said:

We had the Big 4 originally..

 

Hornby, Bachmann, Heljan and Dapol.

The question is with Accurascale in the big 3 with Hornby and Bachmann…

 

has the hobby grown to make a big 5…

 

or

 

Big six? 

 

I've just checked the "future locos" I have on order/intend to order, and it's come out as Hornby 1, Dapol 1, Accurascale 1, Rapido 4.

 

I rarely buy diesels, though the Rapido number will include an 04.

 

John

Edited July 5, 2023 by Dunsignalling

[MarkC]

On 13/06/2023 at 14:35, Paul_sterling said:

 

I too have been looking at a 3mt Clive, albeit full replacement of the bodyshell. Still at CAD stage at present as other commitments prevail. 

 

Thanks. 

Paul. 

Ooh, very good. Am I interested? Oh yes...

 

Mark

[Bulleidboy100]

Just received an email from Key Model World, which included an item saying the first "production" models of the BR Standard 2MT had arrived at Hornby for distribution in the Summer - so hopefully not long now?

[simmo009]

Oh, stop with your teasing. 

[simmo009]

Quelle surprise. Expected date changed on the Hornby website, no accompanying statement as to why etc. 

It will come when it comes, and I am happy to wait for a properly finished product rather than have a rushed bad one.

But for the love of all that is holy, can they not communicate better?

To be able to pre order,  you need an account,  which requires an email address. So, they could write a standard email to everyone with a pre order for a given model and keep them at least a little informed.

What century is Margate in?

Edited July 20, 2023 by simmo009

[Ray M]

I like the line " A RUSHED bad one"

[Paul_sterling]

2 hours ago, Ray M said:

I like the line " A RUSHED bad one"

Rest assured there is no chance this one could qualify for a rushed job...

[Porcy Mane]

So did some arrive at Hornby distribution or not or were we sold a bum steer?

 

Have they been returned to the factory for remedial work/modification??

 

Will we see some before the Chinese new year???

 

Are the new delays due to climate change????

 

Were they shipped via Odessa?????

 

Is that a turned up running plate I can see towards the front??????

 

Maybe they have been returned to have that poorly fitted handrail corrected???????

 

 

Can't wait to see what rumour control has to say about the latest speculation/assumptions

 

[Trevor Hammond]

They are not due into Hornby until September. 

[No Decorum]

Just so long as this and all the P2s don’t all arrive at once. I’ve been looking forward (with a telescope) to these. I think I’m looking forward to the P2s but I want to be sure that Hornby hasn’t mixed some thinner used for cleaning brushes into the LNER green and has done something sensible about the trailing wheels.

[Hilux5972]

12 hours ago, No Decorum said:

has done something sensible about the trailing wheels.

Don’t be silly. Will be the same flangeless wheelset that’s standard now. 

[No Decorum]

4 hours ago, Hilux5972 said:

Don’t be silly. Will be the same flangeless wheelset that’s standard now. 

I have no doubt about that. Hornby has assured me that all such locomotives will henceforth be supplied with flanged trailing wheels. What I mean by “something sensible” is designing the trailing truck so that the flanged wheels can turn if layout curves are gentle enough to allow their use. For example, my Princesses do just that. My Duchess nearly does – clearance for the flanges has to be carved into a cross strut. On the other hand, the flanges of the W1 are jammed against the underside of the chassis and will not turn, even with the keeper plate removed. The latter is particularly disappointing because the face of one of the trailing wheels is exposed. I think it was jspencer who posted a list of things Hornby could do to address the problem. Some suggestions would cost money but in the case of the W1, tooling an arch into the bottom of the chassis to accommodate the flanges should cost next to nothing if designed in from the start.

 

There is no perfect solution but a much better compromise can be produced at little cost. I’ve said before that Hornby seems to check EPs for several things but doesn’t check what many purchasers are likely to do. If these were checked, we would not only have rotating flanged wheels on trailing trucks but we would have a short drawbar on the Duchesses which fitted and quite a few models where a standard decoder and speaker would fit.

[Ian Hargrave]

Only qualm I have after viewing the website ( not the best way of judging what we’re going to get out of the box admittedly ) is the loco to tender coupling bar which has dogged the first issue 9F. Hopefully they will by now be fitted with the new design plug in strip. In no way could I compare this with the Accurascale Manor btw.It is what is and having seen preproduction samples I believe we are about to receive Hornby at its very best.

 

 

[Metr0Land]

I'll just leave this here whilst we're waiting.  Click on photo for caption

 

 

[HExpressD]

On 22/07/2023 at 15:32, Ian Hargrave said:

Only qualm I have after viewing the website ( not the best way of judging what we’re going to get out of the box admittedly ) is the loco to tender coupling bar which has dogged the first issue 9F. Hopefully they will by now be fitted with the new design plug in strip. In no way could I compare this with the Accurascale Manor btw.It is what is and having seen preproduction samples I believe we are about to receive Hornby at its very best.

 

 

The same style coupling bar which has been used on pretty much every Hornby model for at least ten years? I don't think there are any issues with it, I think people would have heard of them by now!