Corona-virus - Impact of the Health Situation worldwide

[Gwiwer]

6 hours ago, robmcg said:

I do rather admire the UK approach.

 

Far better than a total lockdown which will destroy business, social welfare and not necessarily alter the outcome.  But I would still feel more comfortable to see Mr. Mophead acting to stop the ridiculous hoarding going on which, as another poster noted above, originated in Australia and went viral via social media.

 

Confining the elderly might offer them greater protection from infection but no greater immunity.  It deprives them of their essential social interaction in many cases and may cause more distress than it prevents.  Trying to lock down the UK population as a whole is very much a case of the horse having bolted long ago and I cannot and will not see any need for such a step.  

 

I see a shift this morning from the shock headlines towards helping others.  I read a post on a bus operator's social media page asking for restrictions on senior citizens bus passes to be lifted so they can take advantage of early and dedicated shop opening hours without having to be disadvantaged by paying a peak-hour bus fare.  That is not under the operator's control and would need to be sanctioned by Westminster, Edinburgh and Cardiff who oversee and set the rules on free bus passes.  

 

But it's a good idea especially when the normal morning peak is a bit thinner on the ground for now.  TfL reports bus travel is down by 10% but doesn't break that down into time of day.  

 

Rail travel is reported to be down by 19% but there were very few seats available on the way into Waterloo this morning and most trains were still full and standing - just not as many standing.  

 

If Boris continues to pursue the "flattened curve" approach, or "herd immunity" if you like, we will come to a peak of infection and a peak of mortality just as any other nation would.  But we may fine we are in a stronger economic position with fewer businesses lost and fewer out of work, fewer cases of unrest and definitely fewer cases of stress / confinement trauma.  It is the collateral and longer-term damage which may cause more harm, in overall terms, than one round of infection.  

[woodenhead]

We're in this now for the long haul - we're past containment and into delay which will ratchet up over the coming weeks until we are like the rest of Europe to protect the NHS system.

 

Then the restrictions will ease as the level of new infections plateaus - 80% of us are going to get it and eventually we'll all have had some exposure.

 

It's going to change the world around us because we're going to lose loved ones, businesses are going to buckle, people are going to go out less and even after it's all over some things will not return to how they were before.

 

Our local doctors is not doing face to face appointments, you get triaged over the phone and if necessary a doctor will then speak to you - I can imagine that being the new norm from now and going to the doctors will become a thing of the past.

 

However, on the upside - less pollution from cars as commuters reduce commuting and all those planes on the ground will do the atmosphere a lot of good too.  If on the other side people stick with less travel perhaps we will have helped a little with global warming.

 

Mother Nature is under stress from the human race and this virus is applying brakes on our unfettered activities.

[woodenhead]

6 minutes ago, Gwiwer said:

 

Far better than a total lockdown which will destroy business, social welfare and not necessarily alter the outcome.  But I would still feel more comfortable to see Mr. Mophead acting to stop the ridiculous hoarding going on which, as another poster noted above, originated in Australia and went viral via social media.

 

Confining the elderly might offer them greater protection from infection but no greater immunity.  It deprives them of their essential social interaction in many cases and may cause more distress than it prevents.  Trying to lock down the UK population as a whole is very much a case of the horse having bolted long ago and I cannot and will not see any need for such a step.  

 

The Government is indicating increased lockdowns will come just the timing will be scientifically led not populist.

 

I think there will be gradual increase in restrictions on activities where people group that will last a few months but once infection rates reach a critical level and there are more who have had it than are without resistance then it will begin to ease.

[John M Upton]

With regards to newspapers, apart from the crossword and suduko, I refuse to touch them anymore.

[PenrithBeacon]

32 minutes ago, John M Upton said:

With regards to newspapers, apart from the crossword and suduko, I refuse to touch them anymore.

Are they infectious?

[Metr0Land]

1 hour ago, Gwiwer said:

 

I see a shift this morning from the shock headlines towards helping others.  I read a post on a bus operator's social media page asking for restrictions on senior citizens bus passes to be lifted so they can take advantage of early and dedicated shop opening hours without having to be disadvantaged by paying a peak-hour bus fare.  That is not under the operator's control and would need to be sanctioned by Westminster, Edinburgh and Cardiff who oversee and set the rules on free bus passes.  

 

 

 

On a point or order, as Wales has relatively few bus services across large tracts of the country, there's actually no restriction on hours of use!

 

Pendant mode off.

[Gibbo675]

Hi Folks,

 

Here is one from RT, and I'm well aware that is enough for a paddy- whack for starters in certain quarters, but here is the lunacy:

 

 

It could be staged although I have to say that I'm not impressed all the same.

 

For balance here is some philosophy:

 

“The tyranny exercised unconsciously on men’s minds is the only real tyranny, because it cannot be fought against.”

Gustave le Bon “A Study of the Popular Mind”  

 

Gibbo.

[boxbrownie]

Spoke to a friend this morning (on the phone of course ) they are at present selling their house in the Florida so the Mrs went out there last week to finalise the deal, she flew Norwegian Air from Heathrow and there were a lot of American citizens onboard trying to get home before.....well.....the orange man shuts it all down, but almost all of the Americans got asked to leave the plane as they refused to fill in a special form which asked them to list where they had been travelling in the past few weeks, apparently most had been on a tour of Italy.........what is the matter with people, they were told if they didn’t comply they couldn’t fly.

 

Anyway better for our friends wife as she got upgraded as half he plane was empty, and it was a Dreamliner which she was told by crew it’s one of the few planes nowadays which uses fresh air as ventilation as opposed to recycled air, much safer presently. 

[Bernard Lamb]

1 hour ago, Gwiwer said:

 

 

 

I see a shift this morning from the shock headlines towards helping others.  I read a post on a bus operator's social media page asking for restrictions on senior citizens bus passes to be lifted so they can take advantage of early and dedicated shop opening hours without having to be disadvantaged by paying a peak-hour bus fare.  That is not under the operator's control and would need to be sanctioned by Westminster, Edinburgh and Cardiff who oversee and set the rules on free bus passes.  

 

 

Controlled by the County Council in my part of the world. In Hertfordshire they are valid at all times on local buses but there are restricted hours on the Green Line service to London. 

Bernard

[Ron Ron Ron]

1 hour ago, woodenhead said:

.......Mother Nature is under stress from the human race and this virus is applying brakes on our unfettered activities.

 

Just wait for the "believers" telling us it's the sky fairy wot did it !

 

 

.

[Reorte]

11 minutes ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

Just wait for the "believers" telling us it's the sky fairy wot did it !

 

 

Don't be daft, it was our alien overlords worried we were getting a bit uppity.

[rob D2]

59 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

Spoke to a friend this morning (on the phone of course ) they are at present selling their house in the Florida so the Mrs went out there last week to finalise the deal, she flew Norwegian Air from Heathrow and there were a lot of American citizens onboard trying to get home before.....well.....the orange man shuts it all down, but almost all of the Americans got asked to leave the plane as they refused to fill in a special form which asked them to list where they had been travelling in the past few weeks, apparently most had been on a tour of Italy.........what is the matter with people, they were told if they didn’t comply they couldn’t fly.

 

Anyway better for our friends wife as she got upgraded as half he plane was empty, and it was a Dreamliner which she was told by crew it’s one of the few planes nowadays which uses fresh air as ventilation as opposed to recycled air, much safer presently. 

Norwegian air operate from Gatwick not Heathrow.

787 uses a mix of fresh and recycled air - what it doesn’t use is air tapped off the engines and filtered, thus  no aero toxic poisoning

Edited March 16, 2020 by rob D2

[rob D2]

Anyway, if this thing doesn’t peak soon, nobody will be using air travel again as there won’t be any airlines left.

[alastairq]

With all this talk of 'lockdowns' and 'enforced isolations', has anybody noticed a sudden increase in online advertising...for Hornby trains sets?

[runs as required]

Sorry for my earlier post offending everyone.

It followed from talking to a neighbour from the former colliery ‘avenues’  on our way up to the Co-op on the MainRoad.

We were both on the same retirees’ daily round to collect a paper and eatables; the difference being that this morning we found we were both intending to sign on for Home Deliveries.

So ....

It seems it is not an easy thing to arrange Home Deliveries. Perhaps  this is a helpful link

Despite their claims, neither the Co-op, nor Morrisons (the next closest supermarket) will deliver to our postcode.

Next door (who have the virus) have deliveries from Waitrose, but say their list is now closed.

Does anyone have any more up-to-date advice?

dh

 

[Ron Ron Ron]

The EU have just announced proposed restrictions on non-EU citizens from entering the EU.

All non-essential travel - entry to EU states to be barred for 30 days.

The ban doesn't apply to UK citizens.

Details to come about when and how this will be introduced.

 

Meanwhile, more border restrictions also being implemented by individual European countries.

 

Edit: I will update this post as the details become clearer.

.

Edited March 16, 2020 by Ron Ron Ron

[TomE]

41 minutes ago, rob D2 said:

Anyway, if this thing doesn’t peak soon, nobody will be using air travel again as there won’t be any airlines left.

 

Working in Civil Aviation, it's a very worrying time. I have friends who are pilots in the airlines, at major international carriers, who previously never conceived that they could be at risk and are now expecting to be unemployed or on unpaid leave within days. Even in the usually more robust world of business aviation, we've seen a complete collapse of traffic as people stop flying for fear of being isolated, or because countries have introduced travel bans. 

 

I fear that even if this were to peak in weeks rather than months, we are already beyond the point where the aviation industry, and by extension the wider tourism industry, will be anything other than a total bloodbath as a result. 

 

Tom.  

 

 

Edited March 16, 2020 by TomE

[Metr0Land]

In ref to runs-as-required

 

I think Ocado closed their list early on.  Tescos and Asda deliver in my area - I don't know if they're accepting new customers.  I guess with all of them it would be a case of logistics.  They may not be able to resource a sudden upswing in demand eg who will pick the orders, who will drive the van, are there enough vans?

 

In my case, if I wanted to order online from Tesco and they wouldn't accept me, I'd have the option of adding my needs to those of a friend (assuming I'm allowed out to go and collect my stuff!)

[Metr0Land]

3 minutes ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

The EU have just announced restrictions on non-EU citizens from entering the EU.

All non-essential travel - entry to EU states barred for 30 days.

The ban doesn't apply to UK citizens.

 

More border restrictions also being implemented by individual European countries.

 

 

.

 

It's a proposal at the moment, admittedly most proposals in the last few weeks have turned into actuality

[Ron Ron Ron]

42 minutes ago, rob D2 said:

Anyway, if this thing doesn’t peak soon, nobody will be using air travel again as there won’t be any airlines left.

 

2 minutes ago, TomE said:

....I fear that even if this were to peak in weeks rather than months, we are already beyond the point where the aviation industry, and by extension the wider tourism industry, will be anything other than a total bloodbath as a result of this. 

 

 

The economic (and social) implications of this are huge and will impact much wider and deeper than the damage inflicted on the industry itself.

 

.

 

[woodenhead]

2 hours ago, Lantavian said:

 

You're not turning into one of those suicide envirocultists, are you?

Never heard of that, but my view is nature always finds a way when it comes to one species dominating a territory.

 

Taking global warming - we pollute - it changes the eco-system - that kills us - equilibrium returns over time and life develops.

 

I don't believe we are the first humans to have evolved into cultures on this planet, there is evidence in pre-history (not necessarily the same as pre-historic as in dinosaurs) that there have been other advanced cultures long lost.  They may not have had the technology we have but in their own way they were civilised and ahead of others until something wiped them out.

 

We too ego centric sometimes to believe we are as frail as any other creature when attacked by something we cannot control.

[Dunsignalling]

22 minutes ago, runs as required said:

Sorry for my earlier post offending everyone.

It followed from talking to a neighbour from the former colliery ‘avenues’  on our way up to the Co-op on the MainRoad.

We were both on the same retirees’ daily round to collect a paper and eatables; the difference being that this morning we found we were both intending to sign on for Home Deliveries.

So ....

It seems it is not an easy thing to arrange Home Deliveries. Perhaps  this is a helpful link

Despite their claims, neither the Co-op, nor Morrisons (the next closest supermarket) will deliver to our postcode.

Next door (who have the virus) have deliveries from Waitrose, but say their list is now closed.

Does anyone have any more up-to-date advice?

dh

 

I stopped habitually buying newspapers a good decade ago and ceased to shop on a daily basis long before that.

 

By my reckoning, shopping no more than twice weekly should substantially reduce my chances of picking up the virus whilst doing so. I have a mate whose habits tally with yours, and from our conversation this morning, I got the impression he's moving towards my thinking as a result of what's going on.

 

We're both 68 so (currently) assume we won't be confined to barracks but do expect our shopping volumes to increase drastically in order to help older friends, neighbours and family members.

 

We'll need to practice handling those big trolleys the yummy mummies fill up....

 

John

[Ron Ron Ron]

The UK government's medical and scientific advice is further at odds with the WHO.

 

Quote

The head of the World Health Organizaion, Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, has implored governments to test more suspected cases, warning that they cannot fight the pandemic blindfolded. 

In a strongly-worded attack on governments which have neglected or held back testing, he said: “We have not seen an urgent enough escalation in testing, isolation and contact tracing, which is the backbone of the response.”

Tedros added: 
"The most effective way to prevent infections and save lives is breaking the chains of transmission and to do that, you must test and isolate.
You cannot fight the fire blindfolded and we cannot stop this pandemic, if we don’t know who is infected.

We have a simple message for all countries Test, test, test.

Test every suspected case".

 

 

 

We are not carrying out widespread testing here.

 

Dr Ghebreyesus also stated that people who have the virus can remain infectious for up to 14 days and during recovery.

Our government advice suggests self-isolation for 7  days. [EDIT: Updated at 4pm to 14 days]

 

The official UK advice for self isolation says "stay at home" and doesn't tell people to isolate themselves from family and co-habitants, or issue any advice on using separate bathroom facilities etc.

[EDIT: Now clarified at last.]

 

.

 

 

.

Edited March 16, 2020 by Ron Ron Ron

[JSpencer]

43 minutes ago, TomE said:

 

Working in Civil Aviation, it's a very worrying time. I have friends who are pilots in the airlines, at major international carriers, who previously never conceived that they could be at risk and are now expecting to be unemployed or on unpaid leave within days. Even in the usually more robust world of business aviation, we've seen a complete collapse of traffic as people stop flying for fear of being isolated, or because countries have introduced travel bans. 

 

I fear that even if this were to peak in weeks rather than months, we are already beyond the point where the aviation industry, and by extension the wider tourism industry, will be anything other than a total bloodbath as a result. 

 

Tom.  

 

 

 

My company only has the airline industry as customers. It is totally devastating. China did a great job isolating an entire province of 60 million but it they had closed their own borders as well, we would be seeing the back end of this virus today.

 

The UK seems to be looking at herd immunity while many EU countries are now looking to copy china with total isolation. The former will drag the economic fall out for some time. The latter works only if all countries all play ball but could end it too months. We might end up in a hybrid situation, the EU in isolation lock down and the UK in Herd immunity. The Brexit from hell. 

 

[boxbrownie]

2 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

Just wait for the "believers" telling us it's the sky fairy wot did it !

 

 

.

Heaven forbid..........