HS2

[RJS1977]

Though the article did specify "Olympic sized" swimming pools, which I believe are standardised to eight lanes.

[Kris]

Some good news about the nuisance tunnels https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-55822645 shame that it has been. necessary.  

[KeithMacdonald]

15 hours ago, Northmoor said:

I'm praying for rain. Biblical, heavy rain.........

 

Actually I did like the quote about HS2 being the most environmentally damaging project in UK history.  I suspect at least the three busiest airports and half the motorway network would be worse, actually.

 

Agreed, I suspect the original coal-fired patchwork (pre-grouping) rail network escapes their attention, simply because it was never a coherent single project?

[caradoc]

One of the protestors, Disco Dave, is quoted in the BBC article as saying "That ultimately is the purpose of tunnels and tree houses. To act as a deterrent warning the authorities that should they decide to evict, then it will hurt them where for them it hurts most - in the pocket." By 'them' he actually means us, the taxpayers (assuming he does actually pay tax, of course). 

 

 

[62613]

1 minute ago, caradoc said:

One of the protestors, Disco Dave, is quoted in the BBC article as saying "That ultimately is the purpose of tunnels and tree houses. To act as a deterrent warning the authorities that should they decide to evict, then it will hurt them where for them it hurts most - in the pocket." By 'them' he actually means us, the taxpayers (assuming he does actually pay tax, of course). 

 

 

Everyone in the country pays tax, of some sort.

[caradoc]

11 minutes ago, Kris said:

Some good news about the nuisance tunnels https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-55822645 shame that it has been. necessary.  

 

That's good, but I can't help wondering why the protestors were allowed to set up such a camp and occupy it for long enough to build a tunnel in the first place !

 

[Phil Parker]

6 minutes ago, 62613 said:

Everyone in the country pays tax, of some sort.

 

If mummy and daddy are funding you, you probably aren't worried about tax. That's something the little people pay. 

[pete_mcfarlane]

I'd imagine that dealing with climate change activists is easier this time of year. Chaining yourself to something outside is fun until it's 2am and the hypothermia starts to set in. 

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, 62613 said:

Everyone in the country pays tax, of some sort.

Unless you are very rich

[class26]

1 hour ago, melmerby said:

Unless you are very rich

Just think of the VAT on a Roller !

Everyone DOES pay tax in one way or another

Edited January 27, 2021 by class26

[melmerby]

12 minutes ago, class26 said:

Just think of the VAT on a Roller !

Everyone DOES pay tax in one way or another

Claimed on expenses............

[class26]

7 minutes ago, melmerby said:

Claimed on expenses............

You need to look up tax laws. It really isn`t worth it claiming company cars, especially high enders through the tax system , you get clobbered these days. I tried it !

[corneliuslundie]

As the project was approved by an Act of Parliament does trying to prevent it happening amount to treason? If so off with their heads.

Seriously (you thought I was), what about damage done to neighbouring properties by undermining them?

I am sorry, but while I have a great level of agreement with those who want to see us living in a more environmental manner, this is just a group who do not have even a basic grasp of the facts. Throw the book at them. But don't put them in jail, that costs the taxpayer money. Perhaps make them work unpaid for HS2 digging holes where they are needed, instead of an expensive boring machine?

Jonathan

[62613]

26 minutes ago, class26 said:

Just think of the VAT on a Roller !

Everyone DOES pay tax in one way or another

Exactly what I was on about. You can also include it on other goods, of course; also stuff like tobacco and alcohol duty.

[class26]

8 minutes ago, corneliuslundie said:

As the project was approved by an Act of Parliament does trying to prevent it happening amount to treason? If so off with their heads.

Seriously (you thought I was), what about damage done to neighbouring properties by undermining them?

I am sorry, but while I have a great level of agreement with those who want to see us living in a more environmental manner, this is just a group who do not have even a basic grasp of the facts. Throw the book at them. But don't put them in jail, that costs the taxpayer money. Perhaps make them work unpaid for HS2 digging holes where they are needed, instead of an expensive boring machine?

Jonathan

Very good idea to make them do unpaid "community service" on HS2 just to rub their noses in it.

[melmerby]

6 minutes ago, class26 said:

Very good idea to make them do unpaid "community service" on HS2 just to rub their noses in it.

They are defying a High Court order for not leaving the site so they can be removed by force, if necesssary.

The sanctions could be quite severe but I doubt it. Smack hand and telling off probably.

 

Can't fine them, it'll come out of their benefits

Edited January 27, 2021 by melmerby

[DLT]

On 03/12/2020 at 17:17, Northmoor said:

As others have said (remember there are some VERY experienced rail professionals contributing to this thread), please take the time to read through the thread.  I've learned a great deal more about HS2 from here than I've ever learned from listening to politicians and protesters.  I started as very cynical about HS2 and am now a supporter (with the caveat that I expect the mitigations to be delivered as well).  One of the main things I've learned is that calling it High Speed 2 has probably led to more ill-informed criticism than almost any other factor.

 

I agree entirely.  I have learned practically everything I know about HS2 from reading this thread.  The initial media announcements had lead me to think HS2 to be an expensive Government Vanity Project/White Elephant.  Mainly because those reports had latched on to the high speed aspect, and continually stated that the point of the project was to "reduce the London to Birmingham journey time by 20 minutes".

 

Its similar to what happened with the Advanced Passenger Train forty years ago, when the media latched on to reports stating that "travellers felt sick". 

It was later revealed that the "travellers" concerned were the journalists reporting on the inaugural run.  They felt sick because they had spent the previous night being "entertained" in the hotel bar at BR's expense, and had massive hangovers!

[Phil Parker]

10 minutes ago, DLT said:

I agree entirely.  I have learned practically everything I know about HS2 from reading this thread.  The initial media announcements had lead me to think HS2 to be an expensive Government Vanity Project/White Elephant.  Mainly because those reports had latched on to the high speed aspect, and continually stated that the point of the project was to "reduce the London to Birmingham journey time by 20 minutes".

 

In the early days, HS2's communications department seemed to have taken the year off. It was entirely up to everyone else to stamp on misinformation about the project. Things seemed to have improved in the last 3-4 months, but the damage has already been done.

[class26]

56 minutes ago, melmerby said:

They are defying a High Court order for not leaving the site so they can be removed by force, if necesssary.

The sanctions could be quite severe but I doubt it. Smack hand and telling off probably.

 

Can't fine them, it'll come out of their benefits

 

Problem is, this stupidity increases the costs of construction but it will not stop it. These idiots need teaching a lesson for all time. They talk about the government not listening. So THEY (the idiots) are the experts and the elected government should bow down to them I suppose !

No country can be run like this and the sooner they accept it the better. 

.  

[RJS1977]

I notice that the Euston protestors are claiming that evicting them was a breach of Covid regulations.

 

Surely going to Euston Square to protest (not essential shopping, not exercising)  is a breach of the stay at home order, and as for cramming yourselves into a tightly-enclosed tunnel....

[woodenhead]

7 minutes ago, class26 said:

 

Problem is, this stupidity increases the costs of construction but it will not stop it. These idiots need teaching a lesson for all time. They talk about the government not listening. So THEY (the idiots) are the experts and the elected government should bow down to them I suppose !

No country can be run like this and the sooner they accept it the better. 

.  

In the scheme of the overall project, tis but a drop in the ocean.

 

But before you write them off as a bunch of idiots, some of them will be experts.

 

If it wasn't for people like the ladies of Greenham Common, the Greta Thunbergs, the Civil Rights marchers then no-one would ever challenge a Government, help to educate those who just blindly accept what they are told or hold up a mirror to bigots and racists sometimes high in office.

 

Protestors may be a nuisance and sometimes they may take it too far, but you need them to advance democracy.

Edited January 27, 2021 by woodenhead

[class26]

3 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

In the scheme of the overall project, tis but a drop in the ocean.

 

But before you write them off as a bunch of idiots, some of them will be experts.

 

If it wasn't for people like the ladies of Greenham Common, the Greta Thunbergs, the Civil Rights marchers then no-one would ever challenge a Government, help to educate those who just blindly accept what they are told or hold up a mirror to bigots and racists sometimes high in office.

 

Protestors may be a nuisance and sometimes they may take it too far, but you need them to advance democracy.

Protest should be within the law. I suspect this lot were trespassing at the very least to say nothing about violating Covid regs. You cannot break the law just because you think you have a just cause. The law applies to all in a democracy

Edited January 27, 2021 by class26

[melmerby]

9 minutes ago, RJS1977 said:

I notice that the Euston protestors are claiming that evicting them was a breach of Covid regulations.

 

Surely going to Euston Square to protest (not essential shopping, not exercising)  is a breach of the stay at home order, and as for cramming yourselves into a tightly-enclosed tunnel....

No doubt in their little brains digging tunnels and living in them cheek by jowel is essential business and lawful under Covid regulations

Edited January 27, 2021 by melmerby

[boxbrownie]

1 hour ago, class26 said:

You need to look up tax laws. It really isn`t worth it claiming company cars, especially high enders through the tax system , you get clobbered these days. I tried it !

Just buy/lease them through “your” company........and let your accountant sort it out 

[melmerby]

3 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

In the scheme of the overall project, tis but a drop in the ocean.

 

But before you write them off as a bunch of idiots, some of them will be experts.

 

If it wasn't for people like the ladies of Greenham Common, the Greta Thunbergs, the Civil Rights marchers then no-one would ever challenge a Government, help to educate those who just blindly accept what they are told or hold up a mirror to bigots and racists sometimes high in office.

 

Protestors may be a nuisance and sometimes they may take it too far, but you need them to advance democracy.

 

There is a difference to challenging a Government, when there is good public support (e.g. Greta Thunberg, BLM) and being a nuisance when very much a minority.

 

Greenham Common was and always was going to be nothing more than noise. It got a lot of publicity and that was about all.

The protest did precisely nothing and things played out due to political changes in other parts of the world.