RevolutioN Trains announce "Caroline" Inspection Car in OO gauge and EOI for one in N gauge

[Butler Henderson]

48 minutes ago, Marcus-Jay said:

I'd like to know what this connector is?

A new PCB would sort out all the issues, but I can't identify this specific connector.

 

Card edge connector ? No of contacts and their pitch would be the determining factor as to an equivalent.

[Bucoops]

57 minutes ago, Butler Henderson said:

Card edge connector ? No of contacts and their pitch would be the determining factor as to an equivalent.

 

Agreed. Looks like 10 position but the card is quite thick compared to most I have seen.

[Steadfast]

4 hours ago, Martin_R said:

My next challenge is to fit DCC Concepts EOT red lights on the blue/grey and NSE versions, I really need to work out the end contacts on the circuit board. I’ve tried an AVO but didn’t get consistent readings on either dc or dcc. Has anyone worked out what the connections U+   U1+    F    R  and  Q5 actually relate to please? Great fun!

Having just Googled the product name to findout what was meant by EOT, these appear to be modern BR style tail lamps. There are no EOT devices like in the US in use in the UK, over here we only have tail lamps.

 

In the BR era, I don't think you'd need a lamp as Southern Region stock was permitted to run with the blinds wound round to red, as shown here on this Flickr link 

 

 

That might save you a job and save a tail lamp for another project.

 

Jo

 

 

[Marcus-Jay]

I just think it's totally outrageous that they didn't put the taps in 🤣

[Marcus-Jay]

Some interior details

Rear of Coach

 

Front of Coach

 

 

---

 

[Marcus-Jay]

And some images of the PCBs within

 

 

 

 

 

 

Other side
 

 

 

 

 

 

Lower PCB (with step light LEDs)

 

                               

[Marcus-Jay]

And the now infamous mods for one-way lighting!

[LaGrange]

13 hours ago, Steadfast said:

Having just Googled the product name to findout what was meant by EOT, these appear to be modern BR style tail lamps. There are no EOT devices like in the US in use in the UK, over here we only have tail lamps.

 

In the BR era, I don't think you'd need a lamp as Southern Region stock was permitted to run with the blinds wound round to red, as shown here on this Flickr link 

 

 

That might save you a job and save a tail lamp for another project.

 

Jo

 

 

 

Exactly 33's 71's 73's and all of the older SR EMU/DEMU stock were the same, back when the 'Regions' might aswell have been considered totally separate - interesting that the 33 is taller than the saloon in this photo too

Edited August 22, 2023 by LaGrange

[Martin_R]

13 hours ago, Steadfast said:

Having just Googled the product name to findout what was meant by EOT, these appear to be modern BR style tail lamps. There are no EOT devices like in the US in use in the UK, over here we only have tail lamps.

 

In the BR era, I don't think you'd need a lamp as Southern Region stock was permitted to run with the blinds wound round to red, as shown here on this Flickr link 

 

 

That might save you a job and save a tail lamp for another project.

 

Jo

 

 

Thanks for your reply. You are correct about southern region directional lighting. I’m only intending to use a tail lamp on the green version as I believe the screen should ideally be changed from reading an alpha numeric route indicator to red panels when direction is changed, not really practical in 4mm. With the NSE version I’m toying with the idea of bi-colour red/clear LED’s behind a black and white paper panel thus showing white being propelled and red when being towed. 

[08221]

37418 pushes 975025 "Caroline" through Uttoxeter station on the 1242 Derby to Mossend working on Tuesday 22 August 2023.

 

 

[Bucoops]

Interesting that the 37 has a lamp on the iron rather than its built in ones?

[LMSfan72]

Well, I have traced all the circuitry on the PCBs - and all the pins on the switches and connectors. I understand exactly how it works.... except for the lighting boards themselves - which is where the circuitry for using the directional feeds from the F0f and F0r through a common ground comes from... Anyone fancy taking the light boards out!!!?

 

In reality, I get the impression that the red and marker lights have the resistors in the lighting boards (there's nothing on the main PCB for them). AUX 2 uses an NPN transistor (Q2) as a switch to turn the function on which enables the positive voltage to act at the U1+ pads. S2 completely cuts the feed to U1+ so that they can be disabled by the switch, but, it is the common F0f/r connection that completes the red light circuit as it does for the markers.

 

So, what to do?? Without taking out and modifying the light boards I think it relies on using other functions. If I put 9V to F-U+ or R-U1+ (the pairs swap at the other end to be R-U+ and F-U1+ by the way) I can independently power the lights. U+ is a direct feed from the common +ve on the 21-pin. F0f and F0r work fine at one end already. So, I think am going to have a go at "blanking" U1+ at both ends and extending U+ to cover the contact area so that both reds and markers are fed from U+. Then, I need to find 2 more powered functions and wire them to become the contact pads for F and R at one of the ends (again blanking the existing pads at that end first).

 

I think that if I use tape to cover the old ones and conductive tape over the top for the new pads the board mods are reversible. However, the additional functions on the Loksound are logic level..... therefore, I'll need to create an amplifier circuit for them too unless I wanted to start cutting and bridging tracks on the PCB.... 

 

 

 

 

[matchmaker]

I've fitted a few passengers and a driver. The driver figure has to be narrow as if any part goes outside the armrest of the seat the body won't go back on properly.

[LMSfan72]

Forgive the hand-drawn untidy efforts, but here's how the boards work. Intriguingly the SMD resistors marked 810 all seemed to measure 1K on my multimeter!

 

[Roy Langridge]

32 minutes ago, LMSfan72 said:

Intriguingly the SMD resistors marked 810 all seemed to measure 1K on my multimeter!

Odd, an 810 SMD resistor should be 81 ohms. 
 

Roy

[Martin_R]

34 minutes ago, LMSfan72 said:

Forgive the hand-drawn untidy efforts, but here's how the boards work. Intriguingly the SMD resistors marked 810 all seemed to measure 1K on my multimeter!

 

That’s very interesting about the resistance values and also the complexity on the pcb. I had already tried checking the outputs on dc and dcc and had some unstable results. I’m now thinking I may have to make up a pcb to work with my planned direction LED’s indicator display on the NSE version. Thanks for letting us know your findings, it’s certainly given me food for thought!

[rorz101uk]

3 hours ago, Bucoops said:

Interesting that the 37 has a lamp on the iron rather than its built in ones?

The reason why driver puts a tail lamp because when it’s ruining though a manual box the signalman (signaller) can’t tell if the lights are on. Signalman have stop the train to ask the the driver if they “train complete with tail lamp” 

Edited August 22, 2023 by rorz101uk

[Albie the plumber]

9 hours ago, Marcus-Jay said:

I just think it's totally outrageous that they didn't put the taps in 🤣

That's a plumbers job ! 😁

[LMSfan72]

5 hours ago, LMSfan72 said:

Well, I have traced all the circuitry on the PCBs - and all the pins on the switches and connectors. I understand exactly how it works.... except for the lighting boards themselves - which is where the circuitry for using the directional feeds from the F0f and F0r through a common ground comes from... Anyone fancy taking the light boards out!!!?

 

In reality, I get the impression that the red and marker lights have the resistors in the lighting boards (there's nothing on the main PCB for them). AUX 2 uses an NPN transistor (Q2) as a switch to turn the function on which enables the positive voltage to act at the U1+ pads. S2 completely cuts the feed to U1+ so that they can be disabled by the switch, but, it is the common F0f/r connection that completes the red light circuit as it does for the markers.

 

So, what to do?? Without taking out and modifying the light boards I think it relies on using other functions. If I put 9V to F-U+ or R-U1+ (the pairs swap at the other end to be R-U+ and F-U1+ by the way) I can independently power the lights. U+ is a direct feed from the common +ve on the 21-pin. F0f and F0r work fine at one end already. So, I think am going to have a go at "blanking" U1+ at both ends and extending U+ to cover the contact area so that both reds and markers are fed from U+. Then, I need to find 2 more powered functions and wire them to become the contact pads for F and R at one of the ends (again blanking the existing pads at that end first).

 

I think that if I use tape to cover the old ones and conductive tape over the top for the new pads the board mods are reversible. However, the additional functions on the Loksound are logic level..... therefore, I'll need to create an amplifier circuit for them too unless I wanted to start cutting and bridging tracks on the PCB.... 

 

 

 

 

As I think more about it, the problem is always going to be that the light boards have the common negative. I think the answer might be more simple than I thought….. as long as you only want the same end off each time. I think it’s a case of blanking U+ at one end and extending U1+ to cover it and then the opposite at the other. That way the directional light will come from F0f/r and the other end turned on or off with AUX2. 
 

My ideal would be to be able to turn off either end. I think that would also be possible by adding a hybrid circuit similar to AUX4 and AUX2 to convert the logic level to switch U+ at one end….. I might work that up too!

[PeteScR]

Finally got around to putting a decoder in mine, the LAIS 860019. When I put the coach on the track all of the lights come on (except the trailing reds). I can't get any of the functions to work to operate the lights and the NCE handset says it cant find the decoder if I try to interrogate it.

Anyone else had this? What am I missing? Is this decoder no good for this coach?

 

Cheers

 

Pete

[Fordbank]

11 hours ago, Marcus-Jay said:

And the now infamous mods for one-way lighting!

Bin the black tape?

I fitted a cheap LAIS 860019 to my Caroline, and feared a false economy when I failed to get the directional lights to work.

The headlights would only come on at one end with the red tail lights at the other. Reversing the direction seemed to have no effect.

But I persisted, ie fiddled & fiddled...

More by accident than design I moved the regulator ( ie 'throttle') at the same time as the reverse leaver. ( I use a ZTC controller ), and WOW! Both the headlight and the tail lights became directional.

I now have all lighting functions working:

     Headlights on F0

     Interior lights on F1

     Red tail lights on F2 (requires F0 on)

     Solebar lights on F3

     Tunnel search lights on F4 (requires F0 on)

 

Moreover I have separate control over the lights at the train end by moving the regulator from off (rear kights off) to step 1 - rear lights on.

 

....and no black tape over contacts!

 

But what is F5 for?

 

Andy

[PeteScR]

39 minutes ago, Fordbank said:

 

I fitted a cheap LAIS 860019 to my Caroline, and feared a false economy when I failed to get the directional lights to work.

But I persisted, ie fiddled & fiddled...

 

Andy

So it sounds like the Lais 860019 will work. I wonder why mine doesn't?

 

Pete

[SRman]

14 hours ago, Marcus-Jay said:

I just think it's totally outrageous that they didn't put the taps in 🤣

 

Yes ... it wouldn't have been that much of a drain on them!

Sorry, I'll get my hat and coat ...

[SRman]

I don't have my Carolines yet (one blue/grey and one NSE), but I have the Lais decoders ready and waiting.

I am wondering whether using the programming logic for function mapping, could it be possible to put the condition in that with both F0 and F2 activated, for forwards, F0(f) is off, and similarly with F0 and F2 in reverse, F0(r) is off. I'll be trying a few things to see if I can get it to happen, although I don't doubt the expertise of those who have already tried.

[JSpencer]

My NSE arrived and was paired with "Hereford Rail Tours". This actually happened with the coach and loco in these conditions.

Both will be DCC fitted in due course. 

 

This makes a great pairing as the 33/1 already uses a roco style coupling required for push-pull work with the 4-TC. As Caroline will be used in the same way, the tension lock has been swapped for the roco style as well. This will ensure that we will have no close coupling system issues as she is being pushed around.

 

She is extremely detailed and quite delicate. Lights have been tested under plain DCC. So all good.