More model ideas

[Wickham Green too]

... though some of us would prefer an earlier vintage !

 

Mulhouse ; 2/9/90

[BVMR21]

GWR sunshine stock is still sorely needed in 00 to modern standards, would go well with the Panniers and Manors as well...

[Wickham Green too]

5700 Panniers might have met 'Sunshine' stock when assembling a train - but rarely otherwise !

[Fredo]

Hi, how about a LNER J83? 

[The Johnster]

Perhaps not when the Sunshines were newly built, but I refer you to the Newport-Brecon, Neath-Pontypool, Neath-Brecon, and Neath-Treherbert (via Rhondda Tunnel) services, in the 50s and early 60s often hauled by 57xx/8750 and composed of the period's usual secondary service mix'n'mash of Colletts and Hawksworths, including Sunshines.  Gangwayed stock was used because of the journey time length, which meant that toilet access was needed.

 

One tends to think of these big panniers as shunting engines, and indeed much of their work was of this sort, but they were much more versatile than that, used on local trips and transfers as well as the above passenger jobs.  Perhaps not what you initially think of plugging away up the 5-mile bank between Talybont and Torpantau, or disturbing the sheeps on the side of Fan Gyhirych, but they did, all the same...

 

I've seen a photo somewhere of an 8750 on a 3-coach train in West Wales somewhere, Whitland I think, consisting of Collett bowenders and a Centenary BT in the middle.  And the Cheltenham-Gloucester part of the Flyer and other Cheltenham-Paddington trains was hauled by them until the introduction of 94xx in the early 50s.  Plenty scope for using 57xx/8750 on gangwayed main line stock without even invoking Rule 1!

[BVMR21]

1 hour ago, The Johnster said:

One tends to think of these big panniers as shunting engines, and indeed much of their work was of this sort, but they were much more versatile than that, used on local trips and transfers as well as the above passenger jobs.  Perhaps not what you initially think of plugging away up the 5-mile bank between Talybont and Torpantau, or disturbing the sheeps on the side of Fan Gyhirych, but they did, all the same...

7 mile bank was quite an interesting one, you can also find autocoaches occasionally making their way to Torpantau. Generally speaking, you wouldn't see more than 3 older GWR built coaches, and I do believe it was as you say a mish mash of different diagrams as to what was available. Of course Panniers only really permeated towards Brecon under BR, prior to that it was mostly GWR Deans and Collett Goods, but there are few pictures from prior to 1948 showing the Brecon to Newport services. And as mentioned in the Pannier thread, it was not necessarily uncommon to see a 57xx rescue the odd express train going into Paddington (12 coaches at an average speed of 37mph for 18 miles). Definitely worth the investment, though if there are other more suitable GWR coaches available then it would still be worth considering, given how it would be of benefit to the Accurascale range to have Accurascale GWR coaches, and particularly coaches that have not been done to a modern standard.

[Covkid]

On 21/03/2024 at 20:39, Wickham Green too said:

... though some of us would prefer an earlier vintage !

 

Mulhouse ; 2/9/90

Oh my.   Yes please !!!!

[Fredo]

Hi, what about Class 37/3’s that were fitted with CP7 Bogies from 37/0’s. Also D6701 as built in BR plain Green and D6948 in preserved condition. Thanks Fred

[Steamport Southport]

On 24/03/2024 at 10:13, Wickham Green too said:

5700 Panniers might have met 'Sunshine' stock when assembling a train - but rarely otherwise !

 

Sunshine stock were just bog standard coaches after a while. They could turn up virtually anywhere including on your local branchline.

 

https://www.wizardmodels.ltd/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/w47.pdf

 

It was only coaches like the Special Saloons that were kept for certain trains.

 

Unlike the SR and LNER, the GWR and LMS didn't really have fixed sets of trains that were dedicated to one train. Even the Coronation Scot didn't last long as a set train.

 

 

Jason

Edited March 28 by Steamport Southport

[The Johnster]

Quite.  Traffic would request a formation based on the expected level of demand, and C&W would provide the train using whatever stock was available in the carriage sidings, the load, distance, and line speed determining the locomotive used.  Suburban and branch workings were pretty predictable and could conveniently be worked with fixed sets, but for longer distance main line jobs strengtheners were often added and any attempt at keeping a set of coaches fixed with specific vehicles for any period unless there were specific instructions to do so would be doomed to fairly rapid failure.  Add in variables like splitting trains into portions or coupling the on the return workings, and the further complications of slip portions…

Edited March 28 by The Johnster

[Dunsignalling]

44 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

Quite.  Traffic would request a formation based on the expected level of demand, and C&W would provide the train using whatever stock was available in the carriage sidings, the load, distance, and line speed determining the locomotive used.  Suburban and branch workings were pretty predictable and could conveniently be worked with fixed sets, but for longer distance main line jobs strengtheners were often added and any attempt at keeping a set of coaches fixed with specific vehicles for any period unless there were specific instructions to do so would be doomed to fairly rapid failure.  Add in variables like splitting trains into portions or coupling the on the return workings, and the further complications of slip portions…

 

And main line stoppers of 5-6 coaches on the Western Region often included at least three different patterns of coach and looked a right dog's breakfast. Even the odd stray LMS vehicle showed up occasionally.

 

Mine (a mix of Hornby Colletts and Hawksworths) are nothing like random enough! 🙃

 

John

Edited March 28 by Dunsignalling

[MJI]

I am copying some real rakes and found in one set

 

GWR

 

An early Sunshine.

A late door to every compartment, same design as the SVR BCK which used to bemainline registered.

A 57ft bow end.

A 70ft.

 

 

[Steamport Southport]

3 minutes ago, MJI said:

I am copying some real rakes and found in one set

 

GWR

 

An early Sunshine.

A late door to every compartment, same design as the SVR BCK which used to bemainline registered.

A 57ft bow end.

A 70ft.

 

 

 

What, no clerestory? 😉

 

Seen plenty of those randomly placed in trains.

 

https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrbsh2495.htm

 

 

Jason

[MJI]

10 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

What, no clerestory? 😉

 

Seen plenty of those randomly placed in trains.

 

https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrbsh2495.htm

 

 

Jason

 

Corridor stock, was disappointed no toplights, but pleased all in Comet range.

[The Johnster]

There was a standing instruction that, as far as possible, no two coaches coupled together were to be of the same design, and if this could not be avoided, they were to be of different liveries...  There are plenty of Collett designs, admittedly not all produced in large numbers, that are yet unmodelled in RTR form, though Comet's coverage is pretty good.

[Flying Pig]

7 hours ago, The Johnster said:

There was a standing instruction that, as far as possible, no two coaches coupled together were to be of the same design, and if this could not be avoided, they were to be of different liveries...  There are plenty of Collett designs, admittedly not all produced in large numbers, that are yet unmodelled in RTR form, though Comet's coverage is pretty good.

 

There are plenty of carriages from every company that haven't been done.  When you add in pre-group designs that lasted into nationalisation, the number of types is well beyond what can reasonably be expected to appear rtr.  There will doubtless be further pleasant surprises in future but there will also always be gaps.

[Steamport Southport]

However certain railway companies are far more spoilt that others.

 

Hardly anything LMS and the GWR is only marginally better off. Yet the tiny (in amount of stock) SR has dozens of items of coaching stock and EMUs. Likewise the LNER with all those Gresley and Thompson coaches. Now even getting the Coronation and Quad Arts. There is even a NER railcar!

 

No LMS Period I or II coaches available apart from the forty year old Dining Car, only a small selection of Period III, and if you are looking for any LMS pre grouping forget it...

 

For clarity that's tens of thousands of LMS carriages that haven't been made. Yet we get calls for obscure items such as Tavern Cars since virtually everything else SR related has been made!

 

 

 

Jason

[MJI]

11 hours ago, The Johnster said:

There was a standing instruction that, as far as possible, no two coaches coupled together were to be of the same design, and if this could not be avoided, they were to be of different liveries...  There are plenty of Collett designs, admittedly not all produced in large numbers, that are yet unmodelled in RTR form, though Comet's coverage is pretty good.

There is one i need, no model at all  late GWR BT as built in early 50s, got 2 Ts, but no BTs.

 

Will have to run as a mix but many pics of 3 together.

 

I am now even going comet route for mark 1s,  just not sure if whole vehicle, or reside a lima.

[The Johnster]

2 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

However certain railway companies are far more spoilt that others.

 

Hardly anything LMS and the GWR is only marginally better off. Yet the tiny (in amount of stock) SR has dozens of items of coaching stock and EMUs. Likewise the LNER with all those Gresley and Thompson coaches. Now even getting the Coronation and Quad Arts. There is even a NER railcar!

 

No LMS Period I or II coaches available apart from the forty year old Dining Car, only a small selection of Period III, and if you are looking for any LMS pre grouping forget it...

 

For clarity that's tens of thousands of LMS carriages that haven't been made. Yet we get calls for obscure items such as Tavern Cars since virtually everything else SR related has been made!

 

 

 

Jason

 

Good point, Jason; Period I and II were built in large numbers, appeared on all LMS/LMS related main lines from Thurso to Bournemouth and those of the other three, and lasted in quantity until the late 50s.  No RTR pre-grouping coaches from the Midland, LNW, GNR, GER. GCR, NER, L&Y Caley, or NBR, and these were huge companies, the Midland and LNW especially (I don't count the generic 4- and 6-wheelers as serious models of anything).  Nothing at all from some fairly large pre-group concerns, even locos; LT&S, Cambrian, North Staffs, Furness, or the larger South Wales companies.  LNER provision of coaches concentrates on the ECML, there are none of those built for the GE section.

 

Non-gangwayed stock is thin on the ground in comparison to gangwayed stock as well, but an important part of the pre-dmu scene.  There are even gaps in GW gangwayed provision; Dapol are addressing the long-wishlisted toplights but there is no current standard model of any GW catering vehicle.  Perhaps this is because so many of them were refurbished after WW2 and would need extra tooling; same goes for the Centenary stock. 

[nickb4141]

On 19/03/2024 at 14:22, The Black Hat said:

I think you could be right. Accurascale would be a good choice to undercut Bachmann again with the release of something like the Turbostar - which Electrostar option... 

Other DMUs to consider I think would be:
 

Voyager/Meridian 220/221/222
Class 185 - with Desiro options
All singing all dancing IEP - 800/801/802... etc
110
HST... 

I would agree with everything on your list apart from the IEP’s. Hornby’s model, whilst a bit overpriced, is still a good model and I’d rather Accurascale tooled some of the missing DMU gaps, than duplicate a perfectly good model. 

 

I would also add the class 195/196/197 DMU’s which have a lot of generic similarities in the design.

 

Edited March 31 by nickb4141
Correction

[nickb4141]

On 21/03/2024 at 08:37, Accurascale Fran said:

 

Hi @scottrains29,

 

We did semi-seriously look at doing the 185 a few years ago when there were strong rumours that Irish Rail were going to buy a pool of them and regauge, but they opted for more 22000 ICRs instead.

 

I may be wrong on this (I wasnt the project manager and it was a few years ago) but the 185s are longer than other members of the Desiro family car wise, so it's hard to spin off a family from them).

 

Cheers!

 

Fran 

Hi Fran,

 

That’s a shame that you’ve decided against the 185 - they seem to be cropping up in quite a number of posts on here. If Hornby can justify tooling the Flirt DMU’s, which are restricted to a much smaller geographical area and only have one livery, the 185 would seem commercially sound. Apparently the Flirt DMU’s have been selling well on pre orders, according to my local model shop, so maybe there are a few more multiple unit fans out there, than we are given credit for. 

Edited March 31 by nickb4141
Correction

[Dunsignalling]

On 30/03/2024 at 11:52, Steamport Southport said:

However certain railway companies are far more spoilt that others.

 

Hardly anything LMS and the GWR is only marginally better off. Yet the tiny (in amount of stock) SR has dozens of items of coaching stock and EMUs. Likewise the LNER with all those Gresley and Thompson coaches. Now even getting the Coronation and Quad Arts. There is even a NER railcar!

 

No LMS Period I or II coaches available apart from the forty year old Dining Car, only a small selection of Period III, and if you are looking for any LMS pre grouping forget it...

 

For clarity that's tens of thousands of LMS carriages that haven't been made. Yet we get calls for obscure items such as Tavern Cars since virtually everything else SR related has been made!

 

 

 

Jason

 

Totally agree about the Period I and II LMS corridor stock. Long overdue. A modern-tooling iteration of the old Airfix lavatory non-corridors would be welcome too; not to mention a Stove R with properly designed underpinnings.

 

GWR (or at least WR) is better catered-for than it used to be, Colletts in gangwayed and non-gangwayed form plus Hawksworths from Hornby. Un updated (and extended) take on Bachmann's Sunshine stock would be welcome; they have taken their old Thompsons and Bulleids in hand so maybe there's hope, and it sounds like Dapol will extend their interest in Toplights to include the corridor sort.    

 

The LNER exotica is thoroughly misplaced IMHO. They need to get the "everyday" corridor Gresleys sorted out first, both in shape and range.

 

Those basics have been largely covered for the SR contingent, but the much requested Taverns/diners are needed to complete the top-rank express formations in the BR era ; though a similar lack which affects all the groups. There are other gaps, too. Hornby's Maunsell p/p sets only existed for five years from 1959-64 and an Ironclad pair would be far more useful for many of us, as would others of the breed for secondary main-line work.   

 

Plenty for all brands to grab a lucrative slice of the action...

 

John

Edited March 31 by Dunsignalling

[Wickham Green too]

23 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

... the tiny (in amount of stock) SR has dozens of items of coaching stock and EMUs. ...

While we have, indeed been spoilt with the Restriction 4 Maunsells - though 1934 & 1936* type are still absent - we have no RTR Restriction 0 or Restriction 1 coaches. Plenty of Bulleid designs are now available from the trade but not, yet anything like the full range. As for EMUs - hmmm - a service made up of 2BIL, 2HAL & 5BEL units is hardly prototypical ........ and the later, BR Mk1, units are well short of comprehensive coverage. ( Various Mk1 units could form the basis for types which ran on other regions, of  course. )

 

* the Driving trailer Compo is a notable exception - but WHY has it never been released in original form ??!?

[MJI]

21 hours ago, The Johnster said:

 

Good point, Jason; Period I and II were built in large numbers, appeared on all LMS/LMS related main lines from Thurso to Bournemouth and those of the other three, and lasted in quantity until the late 50s.  No RTR pre-grouping coaches from the Midland, LNW, GNR, GER. GCR, NER, L&Y Caley, or NBR, and these were huge companies, the Midland and LNW especially (I don't count the generic 4- and 6-wheelers as serious models of anything).  Nothing at all from some fairly large pre-group concerns, even locos; LT&S, Cambrian, North Staffs, Furness, or the larger South Wales companies.  LNER provision of coaches concentrates on the ECML, there are none of those built for the GE section.

 

Non-gangwayed stock is thin on the ground in comparison to gangwayed stock as well, but an important part of the pre-dmu scene.  There are even gaps in GW gangwayed provision; Dapol are addressing the long-wishlisted toplights but there is no current standard model of any GW catering vehicle.  Perhaps this is because so many of them were refurbished after WW2 and would need extra tooling; same goes for the Centenary stock. 

The GWR Collet gangwayed gaps are huge.

 

No 70 footers, preserved, no excursion see DVR, no super saloons, no Sunshine BTK, no early 30s flat ended   see SVR GWR 150 BCK.

 

 

[XChris]

2 hours ago, nickb4141 said:

Hi Fran,

 

That’s a shame that you’ve decided against the 185 - they seem to be cropping up in quite a number of posts on here. If Hornby can justify tooling the Flirt DMU’s, which are restricted to a much smaller geographical area and only have one livery, the 185 would seem commercially sound. Apparently the Flirt DMU’s have been selling well on pre orders, according to my local model shop, so maybe there are a few more multiple unit fans out there, than we are given credit for. 

The thing is now that if you want to model anything past 2000ish then units are a staple of your layout, and as time has gone on 2010 onwards locos only exist on IC workings or freight. Units sell because they are required for the layout to work as an accurate representation, they sell not particularly because everyone likes them but because you have to have them.