More model ideas

[The Johnster]

3 hours ago, MJI said:

The GWR Collet gangwayed gaps are huge.

 

No 70 footers, preserved, no excursion see DVR, no super saloons, no Sunshine BTK, no early 30s flat ended   see SVR GWR 150 BCK.

 

 

 

And no flat-ended non-gangwayed; these would provide an opportunity for the 1953 A43/4 auto trailer rebuilds with tooling slides.

 

A retooled A30 trailer is long overdue, (or an A27), and the auto trailer provision is poor, admittedly soon to be made a little less so by Dapol's new diagram N.  No 70' trailers, no matchboard, no Clifton Downs &c compartment (there are Roxey kits for the Clifton Downs).  The most numerically common trailer was the A26, a 70' rebuilt railmotor, never produced in RTR or TTBOMK kit form, but there are none of the gangwayed 70' sets for the Plymouth area either.  My personal favourites, the very elegant ex-TVR gangwayed sets, are to be fair a bit niche and unlikely to ever be available even in kit form. 

 

Staying with the auto theme, no 54xx or any of the locos converted to auto such as the Metros, 517s (Fair Rosamund would fly off the shelves with a name like that and the romantic historical story that goes with it), 2021s, and such.

[BVMR21]

2021 class would be a good thing to see, as the direct predecessor to the 1600 class Panniers. Though the Diagram A.28 autocoaches interest me, alongside the A.26 autocoaches, it would be good to also see though a full suite of Sunshine stock coaches, and some Great Western 70' coaches as well.

[MJI]

For fun blue grey mark 1s are not well supplied.

 

RTR

 

Also the raised window frame ones

[The Johnster]

45 minutes ago, BVMR21 said:

2021 class would be a good thing to see, as the direct predecessor to the 1600 class Panniers. Though the Diagram A.28 autocoaches interest me, alongside the A.26 autocoaches, it would be good to also see though a full suite of Sunshine stock coaches, and some Great Western 70' coaches as well.

 

I lobbied Dapol for years for the N, simply (!) a matter of putting the 7mm through a shrink ray, with eventual success not that I am claiming that I am responsible for it's appearance, and am now starting to gennerally lobby for an A10, another panelled 56'11" type so unlikely Dap would be interested.  In the meantime my intention is to kitbash one from the generally similar A31 Keyser whitemetal kit, not the best solution but will do for now.  I reckon my best hope for a proper A10 is from a company that releases a Metro, 517, 2021, or even a 48xx, and since Bachmann have (I reckon) given up on new previously untooled steam, and possibly new UK outline in general, and Hornby are vested in the Airfix-derivate A30 and 48xx, I am looking to Accurascale or Rapido for light at the end of this tunnel.  And I know both those companies engage here, so come on, guys, go do that voodoo that you do so well...

[wombatofludham]

Having just watched two Bachmann FFA intermediate freightliner flats go for £123 and £132 respectively on Tatbay (when new they were roughly £50) I seriously think there is enough room for Accurascale to compete with Bachmann on the 1968 design Frieghtliner FGA-FFA sets, especially as Bachmann's models seem to have been a one-off and they do seem to have under estimated the number of FFAs that would sell.  A multipack of 5, without containers, would I imagine be well under the second hand prices the Bachmann wagons are fetching and would avoid the scramble to get the outers and inners separately, whilst allowing modellers to pick and chose containers from a number of suppliers, although it wouldn't stop Accurascale from making their own containers if they wish.

I've been watching the prices of the Bachmann FFA intermediates on the very rare occasions they come up on Tatbay as I'm one short of a five set and the prices are becoming rather over the top, which really does suggest there is some demand out there and the figures achieved (roughly between £80 and the latest record £132) must really indicate a commercial potential.  After all even Hornby admitted that the second hand prices of their lemon 4-VEP units persuaded them there was enough demand to fund a retool, so these daft prices would suggest there is the cash waiting for a more readily available, full five rake boxed set at Accurascale prices, with or without the boxes.

[BVMR21]

I do think something like the 80T Hunslet 0-8-0s used at Ebbw Vale Steelworks would be good to see enter 00 gauge ready to run...

[wairoa]

Class 58 would be nice. That's the one engine the entire (EVERYBODY) model railway community agrees that we need more than anything else. 

Edited April 1 by wairoa

[phil gollin]

21 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

.

 

..... As for EMUs - hmmm - a service made up of 2BIL, 2HAL & 5BEL units is hardly prototypical ........

 

.

.

 

Yes,  At the minimum a 4-COR and 4-SUB.  Both prototypically wore Southern Railway green (including WW2), Southern Region Green and BR Blue.

 

.

[tinsley-toton]

No need for 'More model ideas'............Arrives today 😁

If only !

 

T-T

[Wickham Green too]

8 hours ago, wairoa said:

Class 58 would be nice. That's the one engine the entire (EVERYBODY) model railway community agrees that we need more than anything else. 

.... though at least one member of the model railway community ( ME ) would disagree that we need a repeat more than anything else. 

[NBL]

8 hours ago, wairoa said:

Class 58 would be nice. That's the one engine the entire (EVERYBODY) model railway community agrees that we need more than anything else. 

Except for me!  The HJ/EFE model seems fine, what's so wrong that we'd need duplication?

[tomparryharry]

The idea of asking for this or that is nothing new. I know, I've done this myself. 

 

I guess drawing up a poll vote for individual items is the way forward. That's how we ended up with the Hornby Toad in the first place. Credit to Hornby here...

Or, Mr. Mcdermott & his happy band of compilers are the ones to see. And, more importantly, the manufacturers & project funders get to see that information as well. Petition the Poll Team, but make a good, solid case for your requests.

 

Remember. Why do you want it? Will it generate its own profit? Does it fit into the current ranges? I'd dearly love to have Railcar 18 on my roster, but there's only one of them....

 

As a whole, we've never, ever had such a plethora of high-grade models as now. Enjoy it: I do.

[The Johnster]

Quite right Ian, and it's only going to get better over time.  Looking at it (or trying to look at it) from a manufacturer's viewpoint, the idea is to sell stuff at a profit, in a competitive market. We, the consumers, only have a rough idea of how production costs are calculated and disbursed, but clearly some models are going to be less profitable than others unless they are more costly, which will reduce demand and hence turnover; to take no.18 for example, as running in BR crimson/cream livery at Llantrisant many of the panels covering the drive shafts and gears are missing so producing this would something akin to a Shay; you'd need to be able to see things turning.  So we wishlist for what we want for our particular layouts and suggest things that we think will sell well.

 

The manufacturer, of necessity, views things a little differently if he/she wants to stay in business, has to continually assess the potential profitable income from new models, because whatever we like to think this is in fact a hobby driven very much by a 'bright shiny new thing make it all better' mentality, as evidenced by the repeated calls for new toolings of perfectly good existing models.  Therefore, the manufacturer must introduce new models, or new toolings of older ones, or duplications of other manufacturers' products, but in order to survive he/she must produce new models, keep swimming or drown. 

 

So prototypes that have not been previously produced, or not for many years, will appear as what is considered low-hanging fruit moves higher up the tree,  It appears that almost any protoype can be successfully marketed, but there seems to be a hangover from the 80s concept that, in order to sell well, a model must be of something that lasted a long time in service, BR if it was steam, and was widely geographically distributed; that vein has largely been worked out.  Models that blatantly break this supposed rule have sold well and been successful for those producing them; prototype diesels, one-offs like the Hush-Hush/60700, small geographically restricted classes like Adams Radials or Beattie Well Tanks. 

 

So, IMHO (which I freely admit is worth exactly what you are paying for it), any manufacturer thinking of introducing, say, a Churchward 3150, would probably be able to sell it in sufficient numbers to make an honest wee bobee off it, but might be inhibited by it's similarity to large prairies already on the market.  Dapol are apparently thinking about it, but would it not be to some extent in competition with their own 5101/61xx?  Would not an 81xx for that matter?  The question, for Dapol, becomes whether or not 'bright shiny new thing make it all better' trumps 'but I've already got one that looks the same as that!'.  For another producer (and we are probably about Accurascale here because I can't see Hornby doing it and I reckon Bachmann have given up on new UK steam) the equation is different, as there is nothing in the range that it would take market share from. 

 

I mention the 3150 as an example because it is a forgotten engine that does not appear high in the McDermott lists, which seem to be a cromulent guide to what we want for those manufacturers that read it (so probably not Hornby or Bachmann, then), but might illustrate the 'bright shiny new thing make it all better' syndrome.  If we wait long enough, the models we want will appear in RTR form; of course, for the likes of you and me who are on the home straight, we might be a-moulderin' in our graves before they appear, but it won't matter then, not to us anyway.  My hopes are for a 2721 or 1854 half-cab pannier in the next few years, which seems not impossible in the way that it would have been 20 years ago.  I know you'd be up for these as well, along with an Aberdare. 

 

I seem to have been tolerably successful in my wishlisting here, four models I want have turned out to be hits, and are in the process of being produced; 57xx and 8750s without topfeeds, the Diagram N auto-trailer, and a 44xx.  So there is no harm in continuing to mention models I still want; we know that Acc and Rap look at these topics, and keeping them in their minds may have some effect... 

 

SNTMIAB!

[Steamport Southport]

4 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

Quite right Ian, and it's only going to get better over time.  Looking at it (or trying to look at it) from a manufacturer's viewpoint, the idea is to sell stuff at a profit, in a competitive market. We, the consumers, only have a rough idea of how production costs are calculated and disbursed, but clearly some models are going to be less profitable than others unless they are more costly, which will reduce demand and hence turnover; to take no.18 for example, as running in BR crimson/cream livery at Llantrisant many of the panels covering the drive shafts and gears are missing so producing this would something akin to a Shay; you'd need to be able to see things turning.  So we wishlist for what we want for our particular layouts and suggest things that we think will sell well.

 

The manufacturer, of necessity, views things a little differently if he/she wants to stay in business, has to continually assess the potential profitable income from new models, because whatever we like to think this is in fact a hobby driven very much by a 'bright shiny new thing make it all better' mentality, as evidenced by the repeated calls for new toolings of perfectly good existing models.  Therefore, the manufacturer must introduce new models, or new toolings of older ones, or duplications of other manufacturers' products, but in order to survive he/she must produce new models, keep swimming or drown. 

 

So prototypes that have not been previously produced, or not for many years, will appear as what is considered low-hanging fruit moves higher up the tree,  It appears that almost any protoype can be successfully marketed, but there seems to be a hangover from the 80s concept that, in order to sell well, a model must be of something that lasted a long time in service, BR if it was steam, and was widely geographically distributed; that vein has largely been worked out.  Models that blatantly break this supposed rule have sold well and been successful for those producing them; prototype diesels, one-offs like the Hush-Hush/60700, small geographically restricted classes like Adams Radials or Beattie Well Tanks. 

 

So, IMHO (which I freely admit is worth exactly what you are paying for it), any manufacturer thinking of introducing, say, a Churchward 3150, would probably be able to sell it in sufficient numbers to make an honest wee bobee off it, but might be inhibited by it's similarity to large prairies already on the market.  Dapol are apparently thinking about it, but would it not be to some extent in competition with their own 5101/61xx?  Would not an 81xx for that matter?  The question, for Dapol, becomes whether or not 'bright shiny new thing make it all better' trumps 'but I've already got one that looks the same as that!'.  For another producer (and we are probably about Accurascale here because I can't see Hornby doing it and I reckon Bachmann have given up on new UK steam) the equation is different, as there is nothing in the range that it would take market share from. 

 

I mention the 3150 as an example because it is a forgotten engine that does not appear high in the McDermott lists, which seem to be a cromulent guide to what we want for those manufacturers that read it (so probably not Hornby or Bachmann, then), but might illustrate the 'bright shiny new thing make it all better' syndrome.  If we wait long enough, the models we want will appear in RTR form; of course, for the likes of you and me who are on the home straight, we might be a-moulderin' in our graves before they appear, but it won't matter then, not to us anyway.  My hopes are for a 2721 or 1854 half-cab pannier in the next few years, which seems not impossible in the way that it would have been 20 years ago.  I know you'd be up for these as well, along with an Aberdare. 

 

I seem to have been tolerably successful in my wishlisting here, four models I want have turned out to be hits, and are in the process of being produced; 57xx and 8750s without topfeeds, the Diagram N auto-trailer, and a 44xx.  So there is no harm in continuing to mention models I still want; we know that Acc and Rap look at these topics, and keeping them in their minds may have some effect... 

 

SNTMIAB!

 

Hornby have had a 2721 in their range for about 45 years though!

 

Hardly impossible.

 

 

Jason

[MJI]

If you want it make it,  i don't have the time to wait. Been waiting 40 years for cross country DMUs so made my own.

 

I also have a short wishlist in with ironmink. Who was already considering the wagons.

 

If any are done chassisless, would be my request due to different axleboxes .

[TomScrut]

On 31/03/2024 at 13:23, XChris said:

The thing is now that if you want to model anything past 2000ish then units are a staple of your layout, and as time has gone on 2010 onwards locos only exist on IC workings or freight. Units sell because they are required for the layout to work as an accurate representation, they sell not particularly because everyone likes them but because you have to have them.

 

That is perhaps the rub of it really.

 

Most people modelling 2000s on will have a handful of units to make the layout realistic but not have cupboards full of them like they do locos.

 

I am also disappointed that they aren't doing the 185. Here's hoping Revolution decide to do it! There's plenty of Northern stuff about and the 185 covers very similar ground.

 

Far less niche than the mk5as I might add!

Edited April 1 by TomScrut

[Wickham Green too]

On 31/03/2024 at 13:23, XChris said:

The thing is now that if you want to model anything past 2000ish then units are a staple of your layout, and as time has gone on 2010 onwards locos only exist on IC workings or freight. Units sell because they are required for the layout to work as an accurate representation, they sell not particularly because everyone likes them but because you have to have them.

Now, if anyone doesn't like multiple units you have to question why they'd choose to model a 2000+ date layout ........ answers on a postcard !

[The Johnster]

5 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Hornby have had a 2721 in their range for about 45 years though!

 

Hardly impossible.

 

 

Jason

 

True of course, but hardly worthy of consideration as anything more than a crude toy, out of it's depth on a modern layout.  I worked mine up with a Bachmann pannier chassis, new chimney/dome/safety valve bonnet, cast whitemetal buffers, lamp irons, smokebox dart, and real coal, but one still has the problem of hiding the Bachmann worm, which protrudes through the firebox door, the splashers aligned to the Hornby generic Jinty axle spacing which AFAIK is not correct for anything, certainly nothing British in 4mm scale, and, the final clincher that put it in the spares box and returned its chassis to the donor 57xx, the oversized bunker hanging off the back. 

 

Anyone producing this nowadays, and Accura are already in the process of a suitable chassis for their forthcoming 57xx/8750, would make a vastly better job of this prototype, and no doubt supply it in saddle tank form as well.

[Godfrey Glyn]

442, one or two will do nicely!

 

All the best

Godfrey

[wairoa]

17 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

.... though at least one member of the model railway community ( ME ) would disagree that we need a repeat more than anything else. 

N scaler then😀?

[wairoa]

16 hours ago, NBL said:

Except for me!  The HJ/EFE model seems fine, what's so wrong that we'd need duplication?

I have the EFE. I expect ACS could take it to the next level. Duplication is almost as old as the hobby itself I think. 

[NBL]

2 hours ago, wairoa said:

I have the EFE. I expect ACS could take it to the next level. Duplication is almost as old as the hobby itself I think. 

I'm sure a new model could be more finely moulded, though there dont appear to be any glaring issues with the HJ model.

 

If anyone was to do it though, I think it would be more up Cavalex' Type 5 street who have made a fantastic job on the 56, and the forthcoming 60 looks just as good. 

[Wickham Green too]

5 hours ago, wairoa said:

... Duplication is almost as old as the hobby itself I think. 

I have little doubt that Bing & Hornby ( original ) had tinplate things called "Flying Scotsman" and/or "Royal Scot" but when it comes to models that actually resemble the prototype, I can think of no duplicates until the '70s or '80s - maybe the Castle class or ( questionably ) the N2 ??!?

 

And yet, fifty odd years after those, we still have plenty of items - some which existed then and some which have appeared in the interim - which are not available RTR.  

[ColinK]

There is one loco I would really like to see made for 0-16.5, a Bord na Mona Hunslet wagonmaster.  A body only kit is brass or 3D printed would be fine. 

 

 

 

[Dunsignalling]

I don't consider prototypical survival long enough to receive the later BR emblem remains a prerequisite for commercially viable rtr models.

 

However, lots of interesting pre-group classes lasted until the mid-1950s, and that would seem a logical (and safer) move before ruling out the post-nationalsation era altogether

 

John

Edited April 2 by Dunsignalling