Police deal with trainspotters breaking Covid lockdown rules

[phil-b259]

10 minutes ago, tigerburnie said:

Angling has long been the largest participant past time and has also long been associated with mental health treatment programs. I have fished all my life and have found it to be better than anything else for relaxing the mind in fresh air. I have done a lot of sports and other outdoor pastimes, fishing is the most cathartic. I do eat some of the fish I catch, both from the sea and from fresh water. I spent a large part of my younger life raising money and awareness to clean up the filthy waterways of Britain, no-one else seemed to care if the waters were clean except anglers, along with David Bellamy we were able to convince Government and industry to clean it's act up. Society owes Anglers quite a lot,  their stewardship of the waters(lets face it we have a vested interest here) have helped Britain's waters become the better areas for bio diversity that they now are.

Not doubting any of what you say is true - but (1) that all doesn't sound very 'sporty' to me and (2) There are lots of other activities which can be similarly beneficial to mental health that have been made to stop due to Covid restrictions even though some of them could still be carried out without endangering others.

[tigerburnie]

I t cannot be easy trying to make a balance of judgement, New Zealand were able to lock down, close their borders and have pretty much remained covid free, however with a population of less than 5 million, it maybe easier to do along with where they are geographically. Britain is inhabited by a very different breed of people these days, not unique to us, but we clearly have our fair share of the "nobodies telling me what to do" brigade, so sadly instead of asking people, as they did in NZ, they are having to try and make people behave in a more rational way. Now let's have a debate on what is rational.

[beast66606]

5 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

 

Personally I think its a disgrace that when the NHS is under such strain the current Lockdown rules are so much loser than last time, but obviously the views of big business and various influential lobby groups is considered far more important by those in power

 

I think you'll find that Government are waking up to the fact that many peoples lives - on many levels - get destroyed by true lock downs. I thought we'd gone beyond the days when depression was treated by "cheer up, it'll be fine" ?

[Legend]

1 hour ago, Erixtar1992 said:

Told to go home.... ooooooh such a deterrent for other spotters to read. Lol

Seems a sensible response to me .  They should be at home, informed such and they went . Much better than giving out a fine .

 

Whether  it’s fishing , train spotting  whatever , which part of stay at home , you should only leave for essential reasons , do they not understand? 
 

Do we need to say it again? This is a deadly virus , highly transmissible with this new variant . It seems some still don’t get it . 
 

Edited January 14, 2021 by Legend

[newbryford]

1 hour ago, phil-b259 said:

 

Because those who go fishing are usually quite well connected politically and so are able to lobby ministers / government that they are a special case. Dito those who play golf...

 

 

What has golf got to do with allowing fishing?

I haven't read that golf is allowed under the current restrictions.

Is that because I'm not well connected?

 

If there's one thing is that golf has a natural socially distance aspect to it. After all, if it wasn't generally practised, A&E would be full of people with "5-iron" stamped on their forehead because they stood too close.

 

If I'm lucky, I have been known to trainspot whilst playing golf......

 

 

 

 

 

[phil-b259]

11 hours ago, beast66606 said:

 

I think you'll find that Government are waking up to the fact that many peoples lives - on many levels - get destroyed by true lock downs. I thought we'd gone beyond the days when depression was treated by "cheer up, it'll be fine" ?

In which case you increase mental health service provision NOT KNOCK BACK ON LOCKDOWN.

 

A lot (though obviously not all) of mental issues can be helped by talking things through with people - and guess what, that is perfectly possible to do over the phone or via zoom. It would thus be theoretically possible to increase this without harming the compromising Lockdown.

 

And for all those whinging about the mental heath of ‘ordinary people’ / business owners - spare a thought for those in the NHS who are facing far bigger mental health problems than anyone else!
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-55579660

 

Business can be rebuilt post pandemic, the human body cannot!

 

FACT, the sooner the country behaves responsibility and puts people before profit / money the better things will be (until enough have been vaccinated that restrictions can be loosened.

[Jim Martin]

11 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

 

Because those who go fishing are usually quite well connected politically and so are able to lobby ministers / government that they are a special case. 

 

I think you're confusing "angling" with "polo" here. Easily done.

 

Jim

[beast66606]

Words fail me Phil - my reply would not be suitable for this forum so I'll leave most of it out.

 

I assume you are in debt, are worried about losing your job, your house, your car and everything you own otherwise you wouldn't be so glib with your "behaves responsibility and puts people before profit / money" comment - if not then I'll send you my sons bank details and you can send him all of your savings, you can remortgage your house so you have a huge debt and send him that money too - then HE can lecture YOU about staying in and denying you the only bit of relief you get even if you do it responsibly and socially distanced.

[Enterprisingwestern]

11 hours ago, newbryford said:

If I'm lucky, I have been known to trainspot  golf whilst playing golf...... trainspotting

 

FIFY.

 

Mike.

[30801]

While police go after trainspotters, walkers and anglers without the required scotch eggs this happens elsewhere:

 

https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/news/leeds-news/fury-hundreds-idiots-throw-huge-19628215

 

The spirit if not the letter of the restrictions is staying the hell away from other people.

[John Harris]

13 hours ago, Rivercider said:

I think if we put our minds to it we can all attempt to justify our actions

 

cheers

 

Quite right, but the attitude you highlight is the root of much of the spread of the virus.  People think they are the exception, not the rule.

 

jch  

[woodenhead]

12 hours ago, beast66606 said:

 

Someone probably being the person who moved into one of the houses near the station and promptly started reporting people for anything they could think of - including polluting the air with CO2 by using a car.  The station is Acton Bridge. (I only know about the NIMBY from mates who live in the area, it's a bit far for me to visit these days)

 

Equally it could be someone shielding but would really like to go out and thinks it is selfish people going against national advice that means that person remains stuck in their home because of the current infection rates.

 

We don't know the motivation of the person and you shouldn't blame someone for reporting something that is currently against the law.  You may choose not to, that is your prerogative but equally it's not fair to call someone out for reporting something.  The police are in a difficult situation, they are having to deal with things that in the ordinary scheme of things are not crimes but have been criminalised to control the spread of the virus, and the people they are speaking to and issuing fines to would not in many cases be the sorts of people the police would normally be dealing with as perpetrators.

 

I made a comment earlier in the thread about fishing, I stand by my view but I wish to apologise for making it in the context of this thread, it was divisive.

[The Stationmaster]

13 hours ago, woodenhead said:

I don't mind people getting out of their house locally and going for a walk or doing exercise, it is people pushing it, going out to do other stuff.  I am also not in the business of tut tutting what people choose to do, but I don't want people coming on here justifying that fishing or trainspotting is something it's ok to travel out to do because it is the thin end of a wedge.

 

I have concerns for other people stuck at home for months on end in situations far from perfect.

 

We're in a dire situation, the daily deaths are now at their highest level and we need to be doing everything now to keep the infections at bay and also not force even more draconion sanctions on our abilities to do stuff.

My daughter works on a Covid ward - in fact she is either on one of the  treatment wards or the other.  When I say 'treatment' that means effectively ' high dependency' and it is the next level down from ITU so it's also the next level up from not needing particularly serious treatment.  People are only put on these two wards if they are considered to stand a reasonable chance of recovery if they are treated there, they only go to ITU if it is considered they will stand a reasonable chance of recovery from a state which is bad enough to need ITU level treatment.  If they are really poorly but it is considered they will not respond to ITU treatment they are moved somewhere else in the hospital in order to release capacity for somebody who theh Doctors consider will benefit from this level of treatment.  The wards she works on reached full capacity yesterday (I expect the hospital has other similar wards as they represent only part of the capacity it created during the first Lockdown etc period but I can't be certain on that.

 

In the past week she has put one male patient, age 68, into his body bag and from the two wards two people have been returned to the lower level of care because they have recovered sufficiently to allow that to happen.  Those moves created 3 empty beds - they were taken by other patients within a space of a couple of days.  On these two wards the age of the patients varies from those in their early 30s right up to those in their early 90s - clearly the effects of Covid aren't as age selective as some people like to think and use as their excuse.

 

In order to create and staff the areas where she works the two wards have been taken away from cardiology use and some of the staff - such as her - have been 'created' by closing wards elsewhere; she was moved from another hospital in the group where the ward she worked on handle patients in for elective orthopaedic surgery - that ward was closed down on B.axing Day.   This is the reality of the impact of Covid in just one hospital,  This is the reality of the consequences in the NHS of people ignoring the extremely simple rules and guidance to mitigate the spread of infection.  People who ignore those rules etc are putting other people into body bags and preventing many more from receiving normal  treatment in hospitals - maybe they should be sent to hospitals to put the deceased into body bags?

Edited January 15, 2021 by The Stationmaster
typo

[Gibbo675]

Hi Folks,

 

Reading the posts of this thread has been quite illuminating for, according to Carl Jung, hypnosis is process which overrides the conscious mind that controls cogent behaviour to access the subconscious mind which is more suggestable and open to manipulation via various means.

 

There are two ways to do this, the first is to relax the subject through gentle, calm techniques, the other is through trauma through repetitive shocks that frighten and disturb the subject.

 

Trauma based shock is far more effective when dealing with mass populations, who once hypnotised will gladly both repeat and defend mantras that are indoctrinated into them via repetitive means such as news programs that tell you we are all going to hell in a hand cart for the better part of year.

 

Think on,

 

Gibbo.

[bgman]

53 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

 People who ignore those rules etc are putting other people into body bags and preventing many more from receiving normal  treatment in hospitals 

 

Unfortunately Mike you can't teach stupid ... stupid is as stupid does and unfortunately there isn't a vaccine to correct that yet !

 

I have the greatest admiration for your daughter, mine works in a local surgery and even there it is much as you describe.

 

Stay safe and well.

 

G

[caradoc]

14 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

Because those who go fishing are usually quite well connected politically and so are able to lobby ministers / government that they are a special case. Dito those who play golf...

 

What ?!!!!!

 

Various of my work colleagues go fishing, others play golf, and every single one of them is an ordinary bloke (in fact, just like you and I, an ordinary railwayman) with no political connections or influence whatsoever. 

 

I do hope that the resident who reported the trainspotters is at all times 100% compliant with Covid restrictions, and if not that they get reported too. 

 

 

[Reorte]

2 hours ago, 30801 said:

While police go after trainspotters, walkers and anglers without the required scotch eggs this happens elsewhere:

 

https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/news/leeds-news/fury-hundreds-idiots-throw-huge-19628215

 

The spirit if not the letter of the restrictions is staying the hell away from other people.

 

That cuts both ways. There are cases where you can be close to other people and within the letter but not the spirit, and cases where you can be well away from others, within the spirit but against the letter. Clamping down too hard on the latter can destroy goodwill and in the end reduce compliance (especially if there are enough stories of people very much against the spirit and the letter not being dealt with effectively).

 

Yes, we should keep to the letter and the spirit, at most grumbling about it if we have a problem, but getting worked up over people keeping well away from anyone else probably causes more harm than good.

 

another edit: and it sounds like the response was proportional - just getting them to go home.

Edited January 15, 2021 by Reorte

[rocor]

16 hours ago, woodenhead said:

At the end of the day, the rules are go out of the house for necessary business - so shopping and exercise - standing on a station no matter how desserted is neither necessary business nor exercise unless you live in one of the few houses a few metres from the station.

 

It's hardly news, but the number of people who are saying on Facebook "What harm does it cause" don't realise it's not one rule for some but not for others, it's the same rules for all of us.

 

Stay home, save lives

 

If you were doing press ups and squats for no more than a hour while on the platform, you might be able to make a case...

 

Down one, two, three, remember locomotives number. Up one, two, three, jot number in your note book.

[admiles]

14 hours ago, tigerburnie said:

Angling has long been the largest participant past time and has also long been associated with mental health treatment programs. I have fished all my life and have found it to be better than anything else for relaxing the mind in fresh air. I have done a lot of sports and other outdoor pastimes, fishing is the most cathartic. I do eat some of the fish I catch, both from the sea and from fresh water. I spent a large part of my younger life raising money and awareness to clean up the filthy waterways of Britain, no-one else seemed to care if the waters were clean except anglers, along with David Bellamy we were able to convince Government and industry to clean it's act up. Society owes Anglers quite a lot,  their stewardship of the waters(lets face it we have a vested interest here) have helped Britain's waters become the better areas for bio diversity that they now are.

 

But none of that should mean an angler has the right to be out and a trainspotter doesn't. You can't have rules that apply to some and not others.  This country is racked by division enough already.

[Rivercider]

2 minutes ago, Reorte said:

 

That cuts both ways. There are cases where you can be close to other people and within the letter but not the spirit, and cases where you can be well away from others, within the spirit but against the letter. Clamping down too hard on the latter can destroy goodwill and in the end reduce compliance (especially if there are enough stories of people very much against the spirit and the letter not being dealt with effectively).

Absolutely right.

I think overall (and not any specific case), the police have been put in an impossible situation here.

It is impossible to legislate for every eventuality, or individual set of circumstances. We the general public must make our own decisions, guided by government advice, about what we do, or do not do.

This is a time when 'policing by consent' becomes very important.

 

cheers

[woodenhead]

1 hour ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Folks,

 

Reading the posts of this thread has been quite illuminating for, according to Carl Jung, hypnosis is process which overrides the conscious mind that controls cogent behaviour to access the subconscious mind which is more suggestable and open to manipulation via various means.

 

There are two ways to do this, the first is to relax the subject through gentle, calm techniques, the other is through trauma through repetitive shocks that frighten and disturb the subject.

 

Trauma based shock is far more effective when dealing with mass populations, who once hypnotised will gladly both repeat and defend mantras that are indoctrinated into them via repetitive means such as news programs that tell you we are all going to hell in a hand cart for the better part of year.

 

Think on,

 

Gibbo.

Are you suggesting we've all been conditioned?

 

We probably have, but how else would you manage a pandemic and get people to act in an unselfish manner without holding a gun to your head.

 

It's the same conditioning that gets everyone behind the army in the face of war, no-one wants war but if it comes your way you have to act and people need to be motivated to act by showing them the impact of not doing anything.

[Phil Bullock]

14 hours ago, God's Wonderful Railway 1835 said:

You don't have to always need a hook to catch the fish as there is another way to do this.

 

That particular pursuit of piscatorial pleasure definitely requires a criminal record....

[Torn-on-the-platform]

RE fishing, trainspotting in a 'responsible' and distanced way, unfortunately when making these rules, lines had to be drawn and those who unfortunately fall the 'wrong side' of the line will understandably never be happy, especially those who's activities are agonisingly close to said line. Responsible fishing and trainspotting certainly fall into this category, so I can see why those who enjoy the past-times or perhaps even rely upon them for mental health, would be frustrated.

 

Using anglers as an example, most I see will be tucked out the way, off the main path (even pre-covid), but a visible minority also sit on the path itself. 2m distancing then becomes pretty impossible if you want your walk to continue. Allowing angling as an activity during this time is pretty thin end of the wedge stuff as people have mentioned above. Allow the responsible majority to do so is great, but then how do you stop the irresponsible minority from continuing in the way that they always have. (Unfair to use anglers, I appreciate, as this applies to many past times and hobbies, it is just one that is popping up regularly on this thread!)

 

When lockdown 2 ended and outdoor sport was permitted again, the rules changed to prevent car sharing. Whilst a very sensible change to the rules, it proved problematic for our hockey community, with pitches spread out across cities and therefore the carless who usually rely on lifts could not even access matches at their home pitch. My club did discuss not arranging any hockey in this time, but ultimately decided the benefit to those who could play outweighed the frustration of those who couldn't. Whilst I was in the former category, I acknowledge that if i'd been in the latter, I wouldn't been best pleased but I'd also not wanted to prevent others enjoying the sport because I was unable to. The line simply had to be drawn somewhere, and the principle in my anecdote applies just as well to the current situation, even if the line has moved significantly.

 

I hope everyone can get back to their activities as soon as possible, but for now please make the best of what we are allowed to do within the rules. As a GP, I want people to stay as safe as possible but to continue to exercise within the restrictions to keep up their physical and mental health in the best shape possible. Stay safe everyone!

Edited January 15, 2021 by Torn-on-the-platform

[Tricky-CRS]

14 hours ago, tigerburnie said:

I t cannot be easy trying to make a balance of judgement, New Zealand were able to lock down, close their borders and have pretty much remained covid free, however with a population of less than 5 million, it maybe easier to do along with where they are geographically. Britain is inhabited by a very different breed of people these days, not unique to us, but we clearly have our fair share of the "nobodies telling me what to do" brigade, so sadly instead of asking people, as they did in NZ, they are having to try and make people behave in a more rational way. Now let's have a debate on what is rational.

 

A better example is Taiwan similar population to hear I believe and similar size country, it to strong elimination type measures early  and got the Covid out of the country. It has then open up the country internally and controlled its borders advantages of being an island (oh like us), it has then stopped out breaks. The comparison with NZ and Aus is difficult but not quite so with Taiwan.

[Reorte]

28 minutes ago, Torn-on-the-platform said:

RE fishing, trainspotting in a 'responsible' and distanced way, unfortunately when making these rules, lines had to be drawn and those who unfortunately fall the 'wrong side' of the line will understandably never be happy, especially those who's activities are agonisingly close to said line. Responsible fishing and trainspotting certainly fall into this category, so I can see why those who enjoy the past-times or perhaps even rely upon them for mental health, would be frustrated.

Yes - it's impossible to be perfect, so that's why we all have a responsibility to accept a degree of inconvenience under the circumstances even when it could be reasonably said to pose no risk (and the authorities should never take that for granted, in order to keep that degree of non-perfect inconvenience within acceptable limits). It's pragmatic to accept this and go along with it, just as long as the response to the people acting within the spirit and not the letter is proportionate - "Yeah, I know what it's like, but for the reasons just given - please go home." Just as long as people do believe there's a difference between curtain-twitching and reporting that party going on two doors down, the people doing the latter deserving everything that can be thrown at them.