Hitachi trains grounded

[Bucoops]

1 hour ago, woodenhead said:

In the end they just went with the one - Cattle.

 

Dunno about cattle but saw a sheep lorry today. Each one had an individual window, and a fan. Luxury compared to modern trains!

[boxbrownie]

1 hour ago, Gwiwer said:

Not wishing to labour a point but I am not confusing those who use within-limits mobility aids with others. There have been occasions (mercifully few) when we have been expected to assist a customer off a train whom someone else has put aboard but whose scooter is wider than our (industry standard, DDA-compliant) ramps. Goodness only knows how they got aboard.  

There are safety issues here. An oversized, overweight scooter can be a serious obstruction in the gangways / doorways because they don’t fit (or cannot manouevre into) the designated area. Passenger’s luggage likewise but it is easier to move a 30kg suitcase in a hurry than a 300+kg scooter with user. 
 

Absolutely correct, I have two distinctly different mobility scooters, one is the normal “break down” carry in the boot type and the other weighs about 400kg and just about fits in the back of a Transit Van, but that one is for getting down (and up) the hill and on the beach, the smaller one cannot even get off the slope on our drive.

The friendliest railway I have found for helping us with the mobility scooter has been the Lappa Valley Railway 🤣

 

Unashamed plug for a lovely tourist attraction down here, don’t miss it.

https://www.lappavalley.co.uk

[TomScrut]

1 hour ago, Ken.W said:

 

More common though on the Mk4s were people who "thought" that a red button labeled 'ALARM' flushed the toilet - treating everyone to the "disabled passenger alarm operated" announcement till the Guard managed to get through the train to the relevant toilet to reset. Usually several times per journey

 

Yes I recall that too! This one I was on about stopped the train as I wondered what the heck had gone on.

[Gwiwer]

59 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

Yes I recall that too! This one I was on about stopped the train as I wondered what the heck had gone on.

It won't stop an IET but it will trigger a loud "BEEP BEEP BEEP - CALL FOR AID ACTIVATED" which repeats frequently until dealt with.  

[boxbrownie]

1 hour ago, Gwiwer said:

It won't stop an IET but it will trigger a loud "BEEP BEEP BEEP - CALL FOR AID ACTIVATED" which repeats frequently until dealt with.  

That should get the old blockage moving! 💩

[Afroal05]

On 13/11/2022 at 18:44, ess1uk said:

How long per set?

or will it vary on condition?

 

How long? No indication of this yet but GWR were told that once things get up and running the plan will be to have units cycling to/from Eastleigh at a beat rate of one a week. I don't know how many units you'd need down at Eastleigh to churn one back out every week. We shall see about that!

 

Both 800026 & 802003 have now been down there some quite considerable time. If my data sources are correct (and I can't find an easy way to verify them right now) 800026 went down to Eastleigh 28th July and 802003 went down there 29th June.

There was some discussion earlier as to mileages accumulated and that kind of thing. Again if the data is correct 800023 has accumulated 591429 miles, 802003 has accumulated 640947 miles.

 

Initially GWR were expecting one of them back at the end of October, there is now no estimate that I have heard (although someone in here said December a few pages ago).

 

On 15/11/2022 at 21:22, Dunsignalling said:

Some Western Region HST rosters involved up to around 800 miles in a day, though it would be unlikely that an individual set would be on the longest one for more than a couple of days per week. 

 

Taking today as a fairly average example of most of this year's diagrams. There are 76 service diagrams accruing miles with a contractual requirement to provide 80 units. (From December that becomes 80 service diagrams with 0 spares, I think that is going to prove quite a challenge based on currently fleet availability - but that isn't really related to cracking issues).

 

Please excuse the somewhat rough and ready way of presenting the data!

NP diagrams are designed for 800s (NP001-017 for 9 cars, NP101-132 for 5 cars)

IW diagrams are designed for 802s (IW910-921 for 9 cars, IW951-970 for 5 cars)

 

EDIT: There are usually 74 diagrams during the SX, NP124/127 are short diagrams as they are positioning sets ahead of the TVSC strikes tomorrow.

 

In theory you'd cycle your unit from diagram 1-17 (for an 800/9) however it really doesn't work out like this at all because of the way Hitachi manage the fleet and create their fleet plans and because of failures, set swaps, late running etc on the day.

My opinion is that in HST days sets would follow the plan a lot more closely than IETs do, it is not very often at all you find an IET working the sequential diagram when it comes back in to service the following day! (The ones usually guaranteed to are units that outstable, but even then they often get swapped out on layover).

This means some units have clocked up a lot more miles than others - this is also the case where some have been stopped long term. With HSTs you used to know how many miles it had until a specific exam, with the Hitachi exam plan it seems to be calculated more on days (a 30, 60, 90, 120 day exam) and as there is no visibility of the inner workings of the Hitachi exam plan amongst GWR staff I can't ascertain if mileage is really a big factor in it.

 

On 16/11/2022 at 11:50, Dunsignalling said:

I think there is an assumption these days that if something can be done using "new tech", then it should, rather than critically examining what (if any) real advantage it offers over established methods.

 

I might have mentioned it before (apologies if I have) but it baffles me that IETs have so much tech - the mileages I quoted earlier are actually calculated to 4 decimal places - and you can at any given time see almost everything and anything the IET is 'thinking' or doing, there is data for everything. For example, there is a estimated loadings feature which tries to count people coming on and off through the doorways - this can be fooled if you entered one vehicle and left through another, as is evidenced by a unit I once observed on depot that claimed it had 1008 people in one vehicle!

On the other than hand (the bit that actually bothers me about this) is that the unit cannot actually accurately tell you how much fuel is in it. The fuel ranges are simply specified as >95%, 95-75%, 75-50%, 50-20%, 20-5%, 5%> - what?! It can be observed (if you have the access, only Hitachi do) when the fuel readings cross from one level to another but there is no live reading to say 34% or 415 miles range (for example).

Our cars have given predictions (even if sometime they're a little ropey) for a while now and airliners have been able to calculate fuel and fuel burn in real-time for years and years. As a result GWR are using largely made up fuel ranges with even more made up calculations for what you do when a GU if shut down or locked out of use which can lead to unnecessary set swaps, service delays or simply controllers panicking unduly!

 

Okay, I'll get off my soap box (sorry).

 

 

On 16/11/2022 at 12:06, jamie92208 said:

As far as I onow the various disabilty groups have been asking for a simpke mevganical lock on accessible loos for years.

 

To very quickly continue the off topic toilet talk with a general IET overview. IETs are fitted with two universal access toilets, one in each driving car, this is because thats how the bodyshells are made. On a 5 car unit this means you have a UAT that isn't actually accessible to a wheelchair bound person as there's nowhere for them to go other than the vestibule and the toilet - the wheelchair space being in the first class vehicle. On a 9 car the UAT is at each end matches up with both standard and first class wheelchair areas.

UATs have an open and a close button but a handle on the inside wall to lock/unlock - the handle controlling an electric lock rather than being a mechanical handle lock. There is also an announcement when the doors slides shut 'Now lock the door!' and 'The door is locked!'. A small light next to the handle illuminates red when locked. I do like the handle contraption as button locks mean there are a lot of buttons on the go (and to get wrong).

 

Standard class toilets on GWR IETs, as many will have encountered, are tiny airline type box affairs with twist locks on the door (and poor sink designs that mean the floor is always pooled with water).

 

****

 

Back to cracking issues and sets do still fail from time to time with cracks when undergoing their daily inspection, these are moved to North Pole for temporary welding. At the moment it's a rare occurrence, I'm assuming that is because by this point the whole fleet has been temporarily welded.

 

Al

 

Edited November 18, 2022 by Afroal05
Amending diagram information as per itallics

[Gwiwer]

Random IET question. 
 

What is meant by the frequently-heard PA announcement “Will the conductor* please  make the next IC call”. 
 

* sometimes First Class Steward or Catering Operative. 
 

It occurs on 5, 9 and 10-car trains and both GWR and LNER. Possibly on other 8xx-series operators too but I have yet to have the pleasure. 

[BernardTPM]

Someone wants a bus?

[Siberian Snooper]

2 hours ago, BernardTPM said:

Someone wants a bus?

 

When was the last time you saw a conductor on a bus?

 

[Gwiwer]

Just now, Siberian Snooper said:

 

When was the last time you saw a conductor on a bus?

 

Today. Londonerbuses.co.uk route A. 
 

And now back to the IETs. 🤣

[boxbrownie]

7 minutes ago, Siberian Snooper said:

 

When was the last time you saw a conductor on a bus?

 

Trolley bus, but it always kept dropping off the wires……made me late for school.

[Banger Blue]

8 hours ago, Gwiwer said:

Random IET question. 
 

What is meant by the frequently-heard PA announcement “Will the conductor* please  make the next IC call”. 
 

* sometimes First Class Steward or Catering Operative. 
 

It occurs on 5, 9 and 10-car trains and both GWR and LNER. Possibly on other 8xx-series operators too but I have yet to have the pleasure. 

Inter-crew?

internal comms?

intercom?

 

it’s basically asking the specified crew member to make / take an internal call (using the handsets the Train Manager / Guard uses to make PA announcements.)

[Ian Hargrave]

Having just completed a (mercifully) short return journey between Temple Meads and Bath with one piece of hand luggage,I am tbh lucky to have completed the entrance and exit without injury. Why is insufficient concern given to the mismatch between platform edge and unit access?  Had it not been for a prompt assisting  intervention by a fellow passenger,I might have been posting this from a local NHS hostelry….always of course providing a space there would have been available . So Hitachi afford you the option of haemhorroidal  inducing seating or falling gracelessly on/off their trains. Survival seems optional. Unimpressive…..especially when combined with transiting via a jaded and    run down GWR cathedral which inadequately serves its travelling public. 

[Phil Bullock]

On 17/11/2022 at 09:47, Oldddudders said:

Before risking that, get a TURP. Transurethral Radical Prostatectomy. Makes life so much easier. 

Hoping things have moved on from that!!!! 

[St. Simon]

On 18/11/2022 at 12:46, Gwiwer said:

Random IET question. 
 

What is meant by the frequently-heard PA announcement “Will the conductor* please  make the next IC call”. 
 

* sometimes First Class Steward or Catering Operative. 
 

It occurs on 5, 9 and 10-car trains and both GWR and LNER. Possibly on other 8xx-series operators too but I have yet to have the pleasure. 

Hi,

 

As ‘Banger Blue’ has said, it’s for internal communications between the train crews, there’s telephones in the vestibule  door control panels. They do have a beeper, but it’s not that loud (can be heard in the saloon, but only a few seats in and on a quiet day), so the crew use the PA to tell each other to answer the phone.

 

It could for a number of reasons, usually to relay info between train manager and catering crew or between crews on different sets, or could be just for a natter on a quiet journey! I don’t think they get used much between Driver and other crew.

 

I remember being on a voyager many years ago (pre-Arriva!) and hearing a series of beeps, which turned out when we asked the train manager was the Driver requesting a cuppa!

 

Simon

[Oldddudders]

19 hours ago, Phil Bullock said:

Hoping things have moved on from that!!!! 

Why? Essentially painless, local anaesthetic, a few days in dock to ensure the plumbing has reconnected ok after the catheter removed. Yes, mine was in France, but it's a regular procedure in UK, too. No more looking for loos!

[john new]

1 hour ago, Oldddudders said:

Why? Essentially painless, local anaesthetic, a few days in dock to ensure the plumbing has reconnected ok after the catheter removed. Yes, mine was in France, but it's a regular procedure in UK, too. No more looking for loos!

Fully concur from recent personal experience. Not going into details but a great solution to a nasty kidney and urological problem

[john new]

On 17/11/2022 at 15:16, Ken.W said:

 

More common though on the Mk4s were people who "thought" that a red button labeled 'ALARM' flushed the toilet - treating everyone to the "disabled passenger alarm operated" announcement till the Guard managed to get through the train to the relevant toilet to reset. Usually several times per journey

Which suggests that rather like the Southern EMUs with the door lock many, many, people got wrong the designers totally failed the brief of creating simple systems that were usable by 99% of users. A perfect 100% probably impossible but the obvious should be eliminated. If an alarm button, whatever it is labelled as, looks more obvious than the bog flusher it will get pushed by people in a hurry. 

[jjb1970]

On 20/11/2022 at 06:41, john new said:

Which suggests that rather like the Southern EMUs with the door lock many, many, people got wrong the designers totally failed the brief of creating simple systems that were usable by 99% of users. A perfect 100% probably impossible but the obvious should be eliminated. If an alarm button, whatever it is labelled as, looks more obvious than the bog flusher it will get pushed by people in a hurry. 

 

It's a bit like film makers complaining that audiences don't understand a movie and having to provide all sorts of explanations about what it is all about. If the audience can't figure it out themselves from viewing it then really the scriptwriters have failed.

[Afroal05]

On 18/11/2022 at 12:46, Gwiwer said:

Random IET question. 
 

What is meant by the frequently-heard PA announcement “Will the conductor* please  make the next IC call”. 
 

* sometimes First Class Steward or Catering Operative. 
 

It occurs on 5, 9 and 10-car trains and both GWR and LNER. Possibly on other 8xx-series operators too but I have yet to have the pleasure. 

 

Further to what @St. Simon said, I believe the current phraseology of 'Would XX make the next IC call' is because this way it ensures both persons involved in the call are by the handset and ready to take/make it. I seem to remember when the stock was fairly new you could hear people trying to make these calls (which contrary to St. Simon I remember it being quite a loud beep heard throughout the saloon!) without such an announcement and it could call/beep for some time before it was answered.

Last time I was able to cab ride an IET I found this beeping comes out in the cab too when an IC call is made, the beeping does sound rather like some kind of an error warning and I think the current phraseology not only serves to warn the driver this irritation is about to happen but also reduces the amount of time the beeping goes on for.

 

[KingEdwardII]

On 19/11/2022 at 22:41, john new said:

If an alarm button, whatever it is labelled as, looks more obvious

There is nothing new in this kinf of design error. I remember the IBM mainframe computers in the 1980s had a main panel with a large red button in the middle for "emergency off", which would shut down the machine. Every installation I came across had added a safety cover over this button - usually an ingeniously taped-on small box - so that you could not directly press the button, but had to lift off the cover first. The cost of mistakenly pushing this button, e.g. during the weekly payroll run, was rather high...

 

Yours, Mike.

[Reorte]

On 19/11/2022 at 15:22, St. Simon said:

I remember being on a voyager many years ago (pre-Arriva!) and hearing a series of beeps, which turned out when we asked the train manager was the Driver requesting a cuppa!

Ah, so now we find the real motivation for the move from loco to MU!

[St. Simon]

6 hours ago, Afroal05 said:

(which contrary to St. Simon I remember it being quite a loud beep heard throughout the saloon!)

 

Your right, I did think it was loud, but as I’ve really only been on quiet trains when I’ve heard it, I assumed that you wouldn’t hear it when they was a busy train!

 

Simon

[ess1uk]

Anyone know what the latest is on the repairs?

[Gwiwer]

52 minutes ago, ess1uk said:

Anyone know what the latest is on the repairs?

Proceeding, as I understand it, according to an agreed program.  Enough units are normally available for traffic each day although with a few re-worked rosters to allow 9-car sets instead of 2x10 and 5 instead of 9 cars on some diagrams.