New n gauge Mk3 loco hauled coaches coming from Dapol?

[montyburns56]

3 hours ago, Steven B said:

 

If we're looking at train packs and new models, then the Mk2 Pullmans would be something a little different to have behind a 86 or 87.

 

Steven B.

 

Yeah, I'd love some MK2 Pullmans as the MK3s are a little too late for the period that I generally model, but are better than nothing.

[AndrueC]

1 hour ago, Adam1701D said:

We have new Swallow and Blue/Grey HST sets coming soon, with the Midland Mainline and Blue Pullman sets a bit later. We should be getting the deco samples of the Class 221 Super Voyagers really soon. Please remember that it is easy for us to design the liveries but getting a production slot in China can be hard.

Well I live in hope so the orders remain open but two years is a long time to wait :(

[Padishar Creel]

On 24/07/2023 at 23:13, Adam1701D said:

 

I will ask about spare loco-hauled roofs.

 

Hallo,

have you been able to find out if correct pattern roofs for loco-hauled MK3 will be available?

 

es grüßt

pc 

[Steadfast]

6 hours ago, Adam1701D said:

We have new Swallow and Blue/Grey HST sets coming soon, with the Midland Mainline and Blue Pullman sets a bit later.

Hello Adam,

 

Does that include the XC HST that has been discussed previously?

 

Some of the XC Mk3s are ex loco hauled and retain the roof details with the 3 small Roevac vents. It'd be the icing on the cake to have them correctly represented.

 

All the best 

 

Jo

[PaulCheffus]

16 hours ago, AndrueC said:

Well I live in hope so the orders remain open but two years is a long time to wait :(

Hi

 

Is it? Other things have taken longer in the past and probably will in the future. At the end of the day it is a toy train not life and death.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[Steven B]

22 hours ago, frobisher said:

Maybe an 86, but ISTR they were vacuum braked until withdrawal and were only converted afterwards.

 

The Mk2 Pullman had air-brakes added (and vacuum removed) in Autumn 1986. They were given Lake District inspired names around the same time. They weren't withdrawn by BR until 1991 (last running in December 1990 behind a 86, 91 and 25912 on a rail tour).

 

Earlier in their careers they would only run with an AC loco - needed because of the high electric train supply requirements (no diesel at the time could provide it). Later refurbishment work (including removal of asbestos) meant they could work with anything with an air-brake.

 

For a good history of the Mk2 Pullmans, see https://sremg.org.uk/coach/coupe/coupe_se09.pdf 

 

Steven B

[Steven B]

18 hours ago, AndrueC said:

Well I live in hope so the orders remain open but two years is a long time to wait :(

Two years is nothing. How long did we wait for the Dapol class 142? The Farish class 158 and Revolution class 128 were both announced in 2018 - five years and counting!

 

Steven B.

 

[woodenhead]

4 minutes ago, Steven B said:

Two years is nothing. How long did we wait for the Dapol class 142? The Farish class 158 and Revolution class 128 were both announced in 2018 - five years and counting!

 

Steven B.

 

No-one mention the Spamcan......

 

OK I did, but I think I got away with it.

[Steven B]

To be fair, the Spamcan, 142, 128 and 158 are all new models.

Re-runs (like the Mk3 and HST) should be simpler and happen when the shops have had no stock for a few months - or a year or two at most.

 

Farish, on the other hand leave it over a decade between batches and then release the weird and wonderful liveries rather than a basic Maroon Mk1 or blue/grey Mk2a. That said, their current releases do appear to be better balanced. 

 

 

Steven B

[woodenhead]

@Steven B But if you look at the difference between Dapol and Farish it probably is a case of while Dapol had nothing new to offer in N it concentrated on re-runs, Farish has been steadily upgrading models, adding new items so re-runs were on the back burner.

 

Both will have limited production slots available, Dapol chose to fill that with re-runs, Farish chose updated and new models.  I would say you can't have both in a limited production environment.

 

It looks though like Dapol is making moves to also bring new models to market, how many Mk3 HST coaches, Maunsells and Gresleys can people want so at some point production was going to need to reduce or stop and be replaced by something else, luckily for us it is being replaced with more new N.

[Adam1701D]

We are doing a lot of work upgrading older mechanisms, such as the Ivatt Tank and also have several new N Gauge projects on the go. Some have been announced, such as the GWR Mogul and the Southern BoB and others are still on the drawing board.

[montyburns56]

4 hours ago, Steven B said:

 

The Mk2 Pullman had air-brakes added (and vacuum removed) in Autumn 1986. They were given Lake District inspired names around the same time. They weren't withdrawn by BR until 1991 (last running in December 1990 behind a 86, 91 and 25912 on a rail tour).

 

Earlier in their careers they would only run with an AC loco - needed because of the high electric train supply requirements (no diesel at the time could provide it). Later refurbishment work (including removal of asbestos) meant they could work with anything with an air-brake.

 

For a good history of the Mk2 Pullmans, see https://sremg.org.uk/coach/coupe/coupe_se09.pdf 

 

Steven B

 

Thanks for that exhaustive history of the Mk2. I didn't know about the Merco stage of their history, so that's another livery variant which would make a model of them even more commercially viable . *hint hint*

[The Pilotman]

I’m sure I rode on one of these sets on an InterCity Luxury Day out in around 1990. Is that possible? If so, I’d be up for a set of these for charter purposes. 

[Adam1701D]

Electra Rail did a some nice set of vinyls to convert the old-style GF Mk2s into Pullmans. The new owners are making great headway getting up and running and these should be available again soon.

 

I must admit that I would love to see these RTR but not sure if the tooling costs would be recoverable in N.

[montyburns56]

19 hours ago, Adam1701D said:

I must admit that I would love to see these RTR but not sure if the tooling costs would be recoverable in N.

 

Maybe not, but I am working on the assumption that they would be done in 00 gauge first and then perhaps later on for the smaller scale. 

[Steven B]

A book set approach might work with the Mk2 Pullmans - Dapol have history having bundled up the Prototype HST cars into twin sets.

 

I'd happily find space for the ten car Lakeland Pullman set (PFB 2xPFK 7xPFP) but could also be temped by the rather smart reverse blue/grey version even with it being out of my normal modelling era. The 1970s Manchester Pullman was made up of PB PC PK PC PC PK PC PB - making a nice four car set of PB 2xPC PK that could be sold twice to each modeller!

 

Go on Dapol you know you want to. With Farish the Mk1, Mk2a and Mk2F, a Mk2b/c likely to come from Accurascale (I'd be surprised if they didn't do the Mk2d too) and Revolution making the Mk5 there's not much air-braked coaching stock left to be done - although a 91 and Mk4 set could look rather nice....

 

Steven B.

Edited August 3, 2023 by Steven B

[Crepello]

Reverse grey/blue for me definitely.

[scruff]

An 8 coach Mk2 Manchester pullman in Executive livery would suit me down to the ground, 86 or 87 hauled of course.. Just need the roarers and APTP then..

 

Watched a youtube video yesterday, It had a mk3 rake with one Mk3 pullman and a standard FO arriving in Manchester Piccadilly in 1989.

 

Cheers

Mark

 

 

[Padishar Creel]

These have been announced 

es grüßt

pc 

 

https://railsofsheffield.com/blogs/news/Dapol-announce-n-gauge-mk3-coaches

[Brian-1c]

May I suggest, with the announcement of these new Mk3 coaches, as well as another Manufacturer's Royal 47s, a set of Royal Train liveried Mk3s would be opportune ?

 

 

[Padishar Creel]

Hallo,

If anyone from Dapol is following this thread I would like to ask if the published images really do represent the livery Designs that will be sold.

Reason I ask is that the 'InterCity Restaurant Buffet' of the executive version appears to start too far to left.

See 11m55 secs in the clip. I was unable to find a pic of the coach number being offered so if Dapol (or anyone else) has one show the depiction is right I will stand corrected

There must be time to correct this, if this is indeed wrong.

es grüßt

pc 

 

https://youtu.be/rw903H-mbNc?si=SjwOuYWE32nyPKaS

[The Pilotman]

Hi @Adam1701D 

With regard to the InterCity Executive and InterCity Swallow Mk3 sleepers, will these new versions have pale (I don’t know whether it’s white, silver or just light grey) window surrounds as in the images on the Rails of Sheffield website, and on the real thing below? Dapol’s original Swallow version did not have this feature so I’d like to know if it’s being done this time around. Thanks.
 

Edited November 9, 2023 by The Pilotman

[Adam1701D]

Thank you for the questions:

 

1) I'll double check the Executive RFM logo position - there is still plenty of time for any corrections.

2) Yes - the Exec / Swallow Mk3s will have silver surrounds.

 

[Padishar Creel]

18 hours ago, Adam1701D said:

Thank you for the questions:

 

1) I'll double check the Executive RFM logo position - there is still plenty of time for any corrections.

2) Yes - the Exec / Swallow Mk3s will have silver surrounds.

 

Thank you for checking point 1

There were unclassified 4 windowed RFMs (RUMS? 😉) - so without the yellow 1st stripe- which also had the InterCity Restaurant Buffet logo centred on the coach.

(stills from a,YouTube clip, all rights to the film maker)

 

es grüßt

pc 

[tiger]

Hi Adam

 

Really looking forward to this latest release of loco hauled Mk3A coaches, especially the BR variants…blue/grey, Executive and INTERCITY and the RTC test cars.

 

Just looking at the planned RFM releases in Executive and INTERCITY. I think the running numbers on these two coaches should be swapped around - is it too late to consider this?

 

Only the first few RFMs were converted and released into traffic in Executive livery with the “InterCity Restaurant Buffet” branding (located on the bodysides as per the photos above). Definitely the first two prototypes, 10200 and 10201 plus a couple of the low numbered production ones up to around 10203, wore Executive. INTERCITY livery with the italicised font, revised colours and swallow insignia was introduced in May 1987, and most of these conversions took place after this date - so Executive livery RFMs were quite rare. 
 

As proposed, the models planned are:

 

2P-009-150 MK3 LOCO HAULED INTERCITY SWALLOW BUFFET 10201
 

and 

 

2P-009-250 MK3 LOCO HAULED INTERCITY EXECUTIVE BUFFET 10260

 

Almost certainly, 10260 would have been painted in INTERCITY from the time of its conversion, whereas 10201 would have been Executive for the first few years before changing to INTERCITY. 

 

With prototype conversions 10200 and 10201 there is the added  complication that, when originally converted, they were classified as RSM Restaurant Second Modular, and then were later changed to RFM Restaurant First Modular, around the same time that the production conversions took place. So versions of 10200 and 10201 with and without the first class branding, are both correct. I think the first class version lasted longer, so might be a safer bet.
 

Adam probably knows all of this already being a livery expert. 

10200 or 10201 RSM as originally converted: (photo by Robert Carroll)

 

 

10201 RFM now with first class branding…not the clearest photo with the body side reflections, but there is now a yellow stripe and a “1” on the door: (photo by Albert Murray)

 

 

Hope these are sensible ideas and still possible!

 

Cheers

 

Tom R.