andyman7 Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 Personally I like the sounds on this one but I have a small number of sound locos and the rest not so fitted because I'm not always in the mood for the cacophony! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ghost of IKB Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 I think a better speaker would work wonders, definitely needs more bass. Otherwise I'm very happy with my 47012, which will be first of many. Working rad slats would have really raised the bar though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Roy Langridge Posted January 16, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 16, 2022 (edited) Many apologies, this weekend has been one of those where I have not had time to stop. As promised, I have put 47012 on my LokProgrammer and taken the following screen grabs. One is the sounds linked to the functions, the other what sound is in what slot. I haven't had time to type up what CV is the individual volume level for each slot, but they are in Chapter 13 of the manual available here: https://www.esu.eu/en/downloads/instruction-manuals/digital-decoders/ If anybody needs anything else, I will try to find time this week - life is however, being all work and no play at the moment. Roy Edited May 4, 2022 by Roy Langridge 6 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PJ10 Posted January 16, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 16, 2022 Hi Roy, Really appreciate this. I can completely understand life getting in the way. I've not been able to allocate any time this weekend to the railway room. My better half had other ideas. Thanks and hope you can find some down time for play relaxation. PJ10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold pheaton Posted January 18, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 18, 2022 (edited) interestingly....the sound deluxe 47 in construction livery has now reverted from Jan-Feb to "awaiting" does anyone actually know what awaiting means.... Edited January 18, 2022 by pheaton Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul.Uni Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 Given it went from 'Jan/Feb' to 'Awaiting', I suspect that it has missed its expected arrival date at Bachmann and they don't have a new confirmed date yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Roy Langridge Posted January 18, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 18, 2022 34 minutes ago, Paul.Uni said: Given it went from 'Jan/Feb' to 'Awaiting', I suspect that it has missed its expected arrival date at Bachmann and they don't have a new confirmed date yet. Or got here and was rejected? Roy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted January 18, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 18, 2022 32 minutes ago, Paul.Uni said: Given it went from 'Jan/Feb' to 'Awaiting', I suspect that it has missed its expected arrival date at Bachmann and they don't have a new confirmed date yet. "Awaiting" normally means that production is in the future and Bachmann doesn't have a fixed date yet. Bachmann normally just slips the date by a month or two if the model is on its way from China. Perhaps it wasn't in the shipment it was supposed to be, or Bachmann had to reject them because of a defect in production? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krieghoff Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 Just looked and the intercity Deluxe is now Feb/March. Looks like an April/May delivery then Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir TophamHatt Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 (edited) On 04/01/2022 at 12:11, cctransuk said: DCC was touted as an foolproof, ultra-simple two-wire system - now it seems that all manner of electronic gizmos need to be added, not to mention the constant enquiries about different decoders, CVs, etc., etc. I really don't know why people bring this up again and again. That marketing line must be well over 10 years old. 1) Things evolve. DC cannot but DCC can and is doing still. 2) You CAN run a DCC model railway with two wires - just like DC. Many choose not to. 3) Nothing else is needed apart from those two wires. But many choose to add more for better reliability. Just find it a bit strange that people, even all these years later, still seem to think it's relevant in the here and now. Cars were marketed as getting you from A to B way back then. Now, I rarely see any adverts telling me how reliable the vehicle is, or cheap for repairs or anything like that - it's all about the in car features and entertainment. It's almost like some people feel they were mis-sold DCC and still see it as a problem now. Edited January 20, 2022 by Sir TophamHatt 3 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 4 hours ago, Sir TophamHatt said: Cars were marketed as getting you from A to B way back then. Now, I rarely see any adverts telling me how reliable the vehicle is, or cheap for repairs or anything like that - it's all about the in car features and entertainment. It's almost like some people feel they were mis-sold DCC and still see it as a problem now. Cars - features and entertainment; mine does all of that and more. When I get a new one, the radio volume is turned to Mute, and that' s the way it stays until I sell it on. The hands-free phone connection and the cruise control are useful - but by no means essential - but that's it !! DCC - no danger of me being mis-sold; I wouldn't go near it with a bargepole ! With DC, I put a new loco on the track and away it goes - no buying or installing extras; no fiddling with CVs, etc, etc. That's the way I like it, and I'll not change this side of Hades / the Pearly Gates. CJI. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomScrut Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 3 minutes ago, cctransuk said: DCC - no danger of me being mis-sold; I wouldn't go near it with a bargepole ! With DC, I put a new loco on the track and away it goes - no buying or installing extras; no fiddling with CVs, etc, etc. Not trying to persuade you otherwise, I don't care what you prefer, but ultimately the difference between any analogue and any digital control method (as DCC isn't the only option here) is a trade off of functionality vs simplicity and cost. I prefer the functionality as the current ratio is holding up. I'd not want it to be any simpler than it is now. 9 times out of 10 when stuff is simplified it is actually dumbed down and so less versatile for those of us who want to fiddle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 If anyone is interested it looks like Jane's Trains in Tooting still have a green SFX one. Full RRP but try and find one elsewhere... http://www.janestrains.co.uk/BachmannDieselElectricLocomotives.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Roy Langridge Posted January 20, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 20, 2022 50 minutes ago, cctransuk said: DCC - no danger of me being mis-sold; I wouldn't go near it with a bargepole ! With DC, I put a new loco on the track and away it goes - no buying or installing extras; no fiddling with CVs, etc, etc. That's the way I like it, and I'll not change this side of Hades / the Pearly Gates. CJI. As is your right of course, but there are so many locos available now that are DCC and you just put them on the track and away they go - no buying or installing extras; no fiddling with CVs, etc, etc Roy 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, TomScrut said: Not trying to persuade you otherwise, I don't care what you prefer, but ultimately the difference between any analogue and any digital control method (as DCC isn't the only option here) is a trade off of functionality vs simplicity and cost. I prefer the functionality as the current ratio is holding up. I'd not want it to be any simpler than it is now. 9 times out of 10 when stuff is simplified it is actually dumbed down and so less versatile for those of us who want to fiddle. That's fine - but functionality to me is forward / reverse and finely graduated stop to fast. I don't need lights - they weren't visible on / in daytime trains until the late 20th century. Sound - it needs a few more years yet before it'll convince me. The DC/ DCC price differential is such that it would significantly reduce my ability to own the range of stock currently at my disposal. DCC has never been a remote possibility for me - I prefer to spend my money on the wherewithal to build and improve models. As to the relative complexity of DC / DCC; I built a fully operational, 2.4 x 5.0m. roundy-roundy, based on a prototype location, in three months. OK, no scenery - but, from bare basboards to running trains on all tracks, including building the transformers / rectifiers and controllers. I doubt that an equivalent DCC layout could be operational in less time. Anyway, my choice - each to their own ! CJI. Edited January 20, 2022 by cctransuk 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomScrut Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 5 minutes ago, cctransuk said: As to the relative complexity of DC / DCC; I built a fully operational, 2.4 x 5.0m. roundy-roundy, based on a prototype location, in three months. OK, no scenery - but, from bare basboards to running trains on all tracks, including building the transformers / rectifiers and controllers. I doubt that an equivalent DCC layout could be operational in less time. Obviously the months involved depend massively on how long you spend on it each day. My 4m X 3.6m round the roomy (4 tracks, with 12 lane yard and 6 platform station) is fully automated and from start to finish took about 2 months, and most of the work was track laying and woodwork. The wiring was probably a couple of days work. But..... It probably cost be about £800 more than a DC layout would have done (hard to say as I'd have needed more controllers and a different take on points). Normal DCC would have "only" been £400 ish more as a guess. It's worth noting thought that the track and wood were still the biggest costs in doing this. It is very much horses for courses, and given my era of interest is firmly placed in the 21st century a lot of what DCC offers is important to me, including the simplicity of the automation. Also, I aren't that fussed about driving trains, more that I like seeing them run together and stop and start in a manner far too complex for one person control. Again, horses for courses. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold pheaton Posted January 20, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 20, 2022 (edited) 18 minutes ago, cctransuk said: That's fine - but functionality to me is forward / reverse and finely graduated stop to fast. I don't need lights- they weren't visible on/ in daytome trains until the late 20th century. Sound - it needs a few more years yet before it'll convince me. The DC/ DCC price differential is such that it would significantly reduce my ability to own the range of stock currently at my disposal. DCC has never been a remote possibility for me - I prefer to spend my money on the wherewithal to build and improve models. As to the relative complexity of DC / DCC; I built a fully operational, 2.4 x 5.0m. roundy-roundy, based on a prototype location, in three months. OK, no scenery - but, from bare basboards to running trains on all tracks, including building the transformers / rectifiers and controllers. I doubt that an equivalent DCC layout could be operational in less time. Anyway, my choice - each to their own ! CJI. DCC was always going to be a hard sell to modellers who have an established layout...and established stock as a DCC user...when i wander around warley (remember that) if a layout catches my eye....i cant tell if its DCC or DC....DC layouts can always achieve the same operational functionality as a DCC layout... DCC has always been (in IT terms) a S**t in S**t out system....you only get out as much as you put in.... out of the box a DCC layout is not more complex than a DC layout....2 wires....and if your prepared to abide to the rules of a DC layout...you dont need to set CVs... its only when you want more out of it that you need modify CVs in short there is nothing a DCC loco cant do that DC can... can you build a DCC layout in exactly the same time as a DC layout....of course you can....if you want the limitation of a DC layout....if you want the advantages of a DCC layout...yes thats a lot more time Edited January 20, 2022 by pheaton Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 2 minutes ago, pheaton said: DCC was always going to be a hard sell to modellers who have an established layout... as a DCC user...when i wander around warley (remember that) if a layout catches my eye....i cant tell if its DCC or DC....DC layouts can always achieve the same operational functionality as a DCC layout... DCC has always been (in it terms) a S**t in S**t out system....you only get out as much as you put in.... out of the box a DCC layout is not more complex than a DC layout....2 wires....and if your prepared to abide to the rules of a DC layout...you dont need to set CVs... its only when you want more out of it that you need modify CVs in short there is nothing a DCC loco cant do that DC can... can you build a DCC layout in exactly the same time as a DC layout....of course you can....if you want the limitation of a DC layout....if you want the advantages of a DCC layout...yes thats a lot more time The basis of my scepticism over DCC is based on the deemingly endless queries / debates / confusion expressed here, concerning the minutae of installing chips and 'tweaking' the apparently endless CV settings - not to mention submitting models, which are already way more expensive than the DC version, to the tender mercies of expensive milling machines in order to cram in better speakers, etc., etc. CJI. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob D2 Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 2 minutes ago, cctransuk said: The basis of my scepticism over DCC is based on the deemingly endless queries / debates / confusion expressed here, concerning the minutae of installing chips and 'tweaking' the apparently endless CV settings - not to mention submitting models, which are already way more expensive than the DC version, to the tender mercies of expensive milling machines in order to cram in better speakers, etc., etc. CJI. Ah, but DCC has kind of taken off as a sub species of hobby for those with an interest in such things. Sound wise, I’m not entirely convinced just yet, but when it’s nailed it’ll be great - after all the noise of a diesel was absolutely part of the experience , as indelible in the memory as they shape of each one Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold pheaton Posted January 20, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 20, 2022 (edited) 19 minutes ago, cctransuk said: The basis of my scepticism over DCC is based on the deemingly endless queries / debates / confusion expressed here, concerning the minutae of installing chips and 'tweaking' the apparently endless CV settings - not to mention submitting models, which are already way more expensive than the DC version, to the tender mercies of expensive milling machines in order to cram in better speakers, etc., etc. CJI. Of course everyone wants to explore the 9th degree of something it's part of what makes us human .....can i make it run faster....can i make it run smoother....can i make it make it do this....can i make it do that.....etc etc.... and dcc gives you that pardox....if CVs were non existent the limits of DCC would allow you to couple one loco to another without an isolation section.... sound...i cant find fault in your points....i have 140 locomotives...80% fitted with sound....but to me...its a bizarre logic to recommend a speaker that doesn't fit without extensive modification to an expensive model for limited outcome......if i fit an EM2 (which you are alluding to) im not going to be transported to cheltenham spa station in 1995 so im going to be realistic and have a representation..... with the best combination that doesent need an engineering degree to fit.... hence the phrase S**t in S**t out. sound will never be as good as the real thing.... Edited January 20, 2022 by pheaton 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomScrut Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 39 minutes ago, pheaton said: as a DCC user...when i wander around warley (remember that) if a layout catches my eye....i cant tell if its DCC or DC....DC layouts can always achieve the same operational functionality as a DCC layout... I think the main thing there is how many people are operating it and how many trains are running at any one time. I expect a lot of us run trains at a far greater regularity than is seen on an exhibition layout and therefore to control these more precisely DCC is useful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomScrut Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 30 minutes ago, rob D2 said: Ah, but DCC has kind of taken off as a sub species of hobby for those with an interest in such things. Sound wise, I’m not entirely convinced just yet, but when it’s nailed it’ll be great - after all the noise of a diesel was absolutely part of the experience , as indelible in the memory as they shape of each one Yes, whilst I like to have the option to adjust CVs, I only do it when necessary to get what I want, it is not part of the hobby for me. In terms of sound, I also agree. I have 3 sound fitted locos, and all of the, were mostly because of the price difference, if I am buying a decoder anyway then it made sense. Likewise with my Accurascale pre orders where the premium is £90. I would be spending £25 on the decoder anyway (as I am a snob when it comes to decoders) and so the £65 uplift for sound (which will hold its value as an uplift greater than a normal decoder), and not having to open the thing when it turns up seems worth it. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted January 20, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 20, 2022 (edited) 45 minutes ago, cctransuk said: The basis of my scepticism over DCC is based on the deemingly endless queries / debates / confusion expressed here, concerning the minutae of installing chips and 'tweaking' the apparently endless CV settings - not to mention submitting models, which are already way more expensive than the DC version, to the tender mercies of expensive milling machines in order to cram in better speakers, etc., etc. CJI. Without DCC chances are the hobby would have died in the 90’s. it might be little more than a wired version of a TV remote control but it does appeal to some. Where I think we agree though, is its end cant come soon enough, i’ve stayed DC as I want to skip a generation of £100 chips. That said I cant wait for the hobby to join the rest of the hobby sector by joining wifi. Edited January 20, 2022 by adb968008 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 15 minutes ago, adb968008 said: Without DCC chances are the hobby would have died in the 90’s. I can't accept that - though I would agree that a whole sector of the current market, that is primarily interested in the latest electronic gizmos and not much concerned about prototypical authenticity, would never have existed. Whether that would have been a good thing is a moot point !?! CJI. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomScrut Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 7 minutes ago, cctransuk said: not much concerned about prototypical authenticity, would never have existed. I aren't sure how you can use prototypical authenticity as a stick to beat DCC with when it facilitates more authenticity than DC in terms of functionality. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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