Ingleford Wharf: 1870s canalside inglenook on the "M&WJR" in 00, and Victoria Quay: a 1900s WIP in 0

[Mikkel]

On 25/03/2024 at 19:42, Schooner said:

Welcome to Victoria Quay (working title) m'Lords, Ladies etc

 

 

 

 

Sorry fam, no time to move house. Busy. Got trains to play with!

 

Awesome stuff @Tricky, thank you for all :)

 

Crane by the most talented also @airnimal. Steam coaster (R/C, woop!) by a nice but unknown gentleman who did a grand job of the build and fit out and then sold her (R/C gear, batteries, controller etc included) for less than the price of the kit. Deeley tank as discussed previously. Inspiration, information and general good juju from you lovely lot.

 

Otherwise it's all my own work!

 

Wow Louis, this is so appealing. Brilliant. As usual you managed to fill in a lot without making it look too cramped. What are the baseboard dimensions please? 

 

[chuffinghell]

50 minutes ago, Mikkel said:

 

Lovely rake!

 

This one is quite nice too 🤣

 

[Schooner]

3 hours ago, Mikkel said:

I see that you also attempted a gunpowder van 🙂

 

Ahahaha guilty! Definite hint of carnage...I look back at some of the past pics of the layout, where it all looks so up together and 'finished', then at how it actually looks on a day-to-day basis and wonder where it all went wrong 🤣 But it's all in pursuit of an engaging, enjoyable and entertain hobby...and sometimes that means levelling the livestock, apparently! Choices and consequences, as they say :)

 

3 hours ago, Mikkel said:

this is so appealing.

Flattered, and glad you think so. In time I'll flood this space with reference pics, as per, but the touchstone is Fremmington Quay. In reality it's a tiny place in the grand scheme of things, but a scale model would be vast in toy train terms. Hopefully the end result will capture a little of that low-key complexity shared by all these little rural-industrial spots in their heyday in a handy space.

 

Also 7mm is really fun so far. Heft.

 

3 hours ago, Mikkel said:

What are the baseboard dimensions please? 

@Tricky may have the actual measurements to hand, but it sits on the same table as Ingleford and has a similar footprint - in the neighbourhood of 1700mm x 650mm*. There are additional cassettes/fiddlesticks, best part of a meter each, left and right to give a 'running line' through the scene; one of the right gives a headshunt for the Full Inglenook Experience. However, Richard's cleverness in bring my plan into reality with the 3-way is it allows space for a perfectly viable spur for a loco and wagon, or two wagons, with which a good amount of shunting can be done just on the base ummmm baseboard :)

 

*To fit in my car, through the door, and on the table. 

 

3 hours ago, chuffinghell said:

This one is quite nice too 🤣

She's a beaut!

 

 

...just need to turn it the other way up for maximum effect... 😇

[Mikkel]

Thanks for the dimensions, 170x65 cms is raeally good and as you say it goes on a table. Great stuff.

[Schooner]

Oh DDP! 

Stop it...

 

...I like it!

 

Edited April 2 by Schooner

[Northroader]

[Schooner]

First adventures in 7mm (sorta)

 

Never really ballasted before, shoals of fun! A mix of all the trial packets of ballast I got when setting up Ingleford, but colours are largely grey 

Or 'stone'

With some rogue bits along the way.

 

Not done with too much intent, just to make a start whilst I could, but the search for good pics of Fremington Quay has begun in earnest. One of the first finds was a lovely portrait of an Ilfracombe Goods (rebuilt) in that place. Yum :)

[Mol_PMB]

You might like to consider cosmetic fishplates - they add a certain something. This isn't the best of photos but it gives the impression.

[Schooner]

@Mol_PMBRoger

 

 

They do make a difference. Even in 4mm I've been surprised by how effective the Peco bullhead fishplates are at lifting the visuals. No pic of those as Ingleford is still in post-gunpowder van state, but with more paint and mess. 17th time lucky for the ground cover around the relaid track...

[Schooner]

Right, first things first: map. The layout is not a model of Fremington, but will be informed by it as a touchstone; the real-world go-to for inspiration. Modeller's-eye view:

 

 

9 hours ago, Schooner said:

One of the first finds was a lovely portrait of an Ilfracombe Goods (rebuilt) in that place.

Oh go on then, it really belongs in this thread:

So ballasting with smallstuff to sleeper-top, bon. I'll keep the 'running line' pretty much as-is so there's a visual break between it and the 'quayside sidings', but that should be pretty doable. Predictably the B4 is likely to set the latest possible setting for the layout as 1890-1900. Future stock revisions are likely to nudge this ever-earlier :) C'mon Shannon, heeere as-built 282s!

 

For the running lines, this is a gorgeous pic of the platforms at Fremington Quay, showing of the quay staff. Undated, but the sort of thing I'll be aiming for. B4 all new and shiny; the lads' donkey jackets not so much: 

 

The other surprising pic was of the original (pre-1880s, allegedly) bridge to the immediate West of the Quay:

 

 

Which is all that and a bag of chips. Would make a fine scenic break at one end (probably RHS, which feels the most thematically appropriate), and I might copy the bridge construction for the rail jetty*. For more info:

 

Ah, 1886 for the 'new' iron bridge:

If there's a sailing vessel on the layout I'm defs calling her Wesleyana! Full photo:

What a beauty...beast...boat!

 

The Fremington Pill was navigable a little further inland, to Muddlebridge...

...and nearby Fremington Pottery

The line through Fremington terminated on the other side of Bideford, at Torrington...where there was an exchange connection with the 3' gauge Torrington and Marland Light Railway

whence came much of the export material for Fremington Quay. Useful to keep in mind for general setting and possible backscene options. Maybe.

 

*Plan A/B was/is to base the jetty on that at Kingswear; including following the leads for a crane and a navigation mark, as per:

The railway at Fremington started out broad gauge after all!

 

Returning to local light railways for a sec, there is a risk that I'll up sticks and shift the whole setting to Bideford (well, East-the-Water) cos...well...cos look at her:

http://www.westwardhohistory.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/0070.jpg

 

Near enough to excuse some far-future Rule 1ing I reckon :) The Falcon coach is available through two different producers in 7mm, as an etch and as a resin print. Just in case. 

 

Annnyhoo...Fremington Box. Not too sure where/how it could fit (possible future addition/extension?) but the small footprint makes it a tempting option for a LHS viewblock:

 

General view and info. Must track down those originals:

Note the overhanging sleepers, could've stolen another inch of baseboard width!

 

The wall in apparently similar state, but with recent concrete support and recorded in colour:

 

Better view of the kilns:

to justify more traffic than just Welsh coal in and Devon clay out.

 

On tenuous links to interesting traffic:

 

More typically though, coal in; clay out:

Nom nom nom! Sheeted lime wagons in the background? 

 

However, it's pre-War (don't ask), so there will be deals in and timber out

...but mostly clay

but even that allows for some decent stock variety, considering:

 

General vibe, diminutive layout size allowing:

 

Stone colour reference:

 

A bit late, but a decent reference for the dock edge:

Also, 2,000T = 200 wagons = about 7 x 5-wagon ingle-trains a day, assuming half-day Saturdays. Hectic! Fremington was, after all, the busiest (by tonnage) North-coast port West of Bristol.

 

And here was me thinking the layout would be 50 Shades of Brown:

 

Oh, no, wait...

Brown.

Brown.

Brown. And if it's sunny...

Brown.

 

One of Fremington's famous brace of steam cranes at the end of their working life, 1963:

They'd visually overpower the layout, but in time a small steam crane (see Kingswear pic at top) would be delightful, and I'm sure kits exist. If not perhaps the kit Neilson or Manning Wardle cranetank 0-4-0s... 

 

Signalling...

...but at what date?

 

Right, that'll do for now :)

 

Those were the days!

Edited April 16 by Schooner

[drduncan]

So Plan A/B Kingswear... going to be broad gauge like your photos?

 

Also where did you get those photos of broad gauge Kingswear?

 

Duncan

[franciswilliamwebb]

11 hours ago, Schooner said:

 

An overdose of ice cream. If I must go, I hope I go like that 👌

[Annie]

On 17/04/2024 at 00:12, drduncan said:

So Plan A/B Kingswear... going to be broad gauge like your photos?

 

Also where did you get those photos of broad gauge Kingswear?

 

Duncan

https://broadgauge.co.uk/locations/kingswear_station.shtml

[drduncan]

2 hours ago, Annie said:

https://broadgauge.co.uk/locations/kingswear_station.shtml

Oh for better/sharper photos!

D

[Schooner]

Thanks @Annie :)

 

2 hours ago, drduncan said:

Oh for better/sharper photos!

Try editing the image URL from eg

 

....locations/kingswear_station/kingswear_station_06_large.jpg

 

to

 

...locations/kingswear_station/kingswear_station_06_xlarge.jpg

 

which will give you the 4k full size image. They can also be found through Google, not sure why the site itself doesn't link to them.

[drduncan]

@Schooner You’re staying suspiciously quiet about a forthcoming broad gauge conversion…

D

[Schooner]

Cogitating!

 

There's a little bit of me that's wondering if a broad gauge third rail* could also cover a third gauge...

 

*32mm + 16.5mm allllmost = the 49mm (7') of West Country broad gauge

 

The rail could be added (reasonably?) simply to the running line, and the quayside road, inc TT and jetty...

which would allow for Bristol & Exeter stock for an early setting, and a nod to the Torrington and Marland Railway

 

One day, maybe! For now, Kingswear provides only general inspiration and a possible prototype on which to base the jetty construction and fittings.

[Schooner]

Found myself lying alongside at Victoria Quay this evening, taking in the latest sights (/postie deliveries) and able to do a little bit of handshunting and measuring out.

 

Plenty space for the standard 5+3+3:

That a whole train fits on the quay road, nominal capacity 3 x wagons, is interesting. Coupled with the little headshunt...

...oh, which it turns out I didn't photograph, so have a clearance check instead. Anyway, it has room for a loco and wagon (shunted 'up') or two wagons ('down') on the baseboard alone, no headsticks; and we know from Ingleford that running round by chain shunt is a possibility. Altogether this makes the layout-as-built even more practical (read playable) than planned/hoped. Woop!

 

So, 5 + 5 + 3 (+3):

Comfortably

 

... (+3)...

Cosy! But from a puzzle PoV perfectly viable.

 

...(+1 +1), if we remember that there's also room for a wagon to stand beyond each turntable:

 

Erm, so my little Inglenook has a puzzle capacity of 5 + 5 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 1 + 1, some shunts for which will result in snookerings, others requiring chain working or maybe even a second loco (!). The intention isn't really to run the layout as an Inglenook, but to run the puzzle as a randomiser for the wagon rakes.These will be sorted and spotted for 'real', vans to the shed (LH TT spur above), outbound clay to the jetty (RH TT spur), coal to the quay road, others wherever the waybill/story says.

 

Does that work? If so, I think it's going to be reasonably diverting, with justifiable (enough) work for a trip loco and a dock shunter if 'need' be.

 

General vibes:

...only less motley! The 5th wagon* is LSWR, Kyle of TRS Trains is putting some serious graft into making the B4 as full of personality as possible, and a proper order for @MarkD's LSWR kits will be in before too long.

 

*All that is needed for an inglenook, right? Right? Yeah, right...!

 

 The 1528 deserves her own stock in time though; neither the track formation nor coaster size is unreasonable for Gloucester (he says, eyeing up @Tricky's glorious models once again)...

 

The little Siphon is safely rogue, unless Dapol's next surprise is 795

In which case all bets are off.

 

24hr stopover only, but should be able to grab a little time tomorrow for a layout. Maybe even a little modelling. The first structure, perhaps? More ground cover? Finish the kit wagons? Hook up the controller and have a play... :)

 

Edit #FFS:

Just announced. Footprint: 156mm x 102mm. I'm not convinced, but I'll measure the LH TT spur, which mich look well running through.

 

Edited April 30 by Schooner
Moar!

[Mikkel]

Lovely scenes, Louis. And very much your style.  A perfect distillation of the hundreds (nay, thousands!) of photos, ideas and thoughts that you have taken us through on here.

 

I know you also plan for a big layout, but your small layouts are little gems in my view.

 

[NHY 581]

Tidy. 

[WFPettigrew]

9 hours ago, Schooner said:

.(+1 +1), if we remember that there's also room for a wagon to stand beyond each turntable

 

Though possibly not if you are putting rail-built buffer stops to prevent wagons-with-heft meeting floor-with-possibly-devastating-consequence?

 

And I have not seen 795 before, what a lovely little loco! 

[Northroader]

If I understand it right, you have to pot a red (D299) before going on to a colour (private owner)??

 

(edit: I must add, this layout is a degree above the average shunting plank in its design, congrats)

 

 

Edited May 1 by Northroader

[Fishplate]

2 hours ago, Northroader said:

you have to pot a red (D299) before going on to a colour

 

During the early 80s, virtually every other car was red. This meant that, in what I found out to be the Kent Police game of traffic snooker, my black mini was worth seven points.

 

I had to take my MOT and Insurance details into the local police station "within 14 days" on a number of occasions for what appeared to me to be odd reasons for randomly pulling me over. Presumably that tactic was used as evidence in determining an individual officers score. 

 

Interestingly, after the black Mini blew up, we changed to a white Talbot Avenger Estate. Never subsequently troubled by the police for apparent 'offences'.

 

Found out about "Traffic Snooker" whilst listening to a Radio 2 phone in some years later when the caller "confessed" to achieving the highest break for a shift. . . . . . Mutter.

 

 

[Schooner]

Not that I'm all that fussy, but...

17 hours ago, Mikkel said:

A perfect distillation

...just in case anyone wondered :)

 

17 hours ago, Mikkel said:

I know you also plan for a big layout

I do, but with no real intent. The recently announced 517 has got me back to thinking of a 4mm BLT, but that would still be tabletop*. I just like the idea of a few of my little layouts linked around one system. I tend towards c. 6' scenes (a natural 120 degree viewing angle from a comfy central seated operating position) anyway, regardless of how big a layout may be overall, so all that changes is convenience/coherence of 'offscene' moves!

 

 

17 hours ago, NHY 581 said:

Tidy. 

 Thank ewe.

 

15 hours ago, WFPettigrew said:

rail-built buffer stops

You make a very valid point, but I don't think I can afford to loose that space - visually as much as in terms of siding capacity, so whilst

I shan't be doing exactly this in 7mm - it was plenty tricky to do on Code 75 - I think it shows where I stand on subject proper rail-built bufferstops. And

wot she sed.

 

15 hours ago, WFPettigrew said:

And I have not seen 795 before, what a lovely little loco! 

Agreed! See @JimC's typically informative write-up and some useful pics here. From which

 

 

a great demo of why I keep banging on about the importance of setting for small layouts. It doesn't matter how clever your trackwork is if the stock swamps it - you get so much more out of a space by going small (and so, often, going early!), I wish more was made of it as a layout design factor.

 

14 hours ago, Northroader said:

If I understand it right, you have to pot a red (D299) before going on to a colour (private owner)??

This is now a thing, and shall be played. Rules to be codified here in the near future!

 

Right, where're we to...ah, yes, today:

I fear I misunderstood the position, purpose and...well...size of East Budleigh's goods shed. Pics and plans here http://disused-stations.org.uk/e/east_budleigh/

 

However, something in that orientation may work rather well. The current plan is for there to be a warehouse/transit shed to hide the edge of the board, aligned with the tracks, with a lean-to style loading bay extension, thus:

bolted to the side.

 

The inspiration comes from Bideford, Fremington having nothing suitable:

with the lean-to taking the place of the canopy at the far end. Speaking of ends, other one looks like this:

Which is rather fine. Or was, as it's all be knocked down for flats now. 

 

Clearances are tight on the LSWR van...but an inch is as good as a mile sometimes.

 

Sadly the van took an absolute clattering in the course of being delivered, one end of the box being totally crushed. The vehicle escaped remarkably lightly, with only one buffer ripped out (replaced, visuals are fine) and this damage to the roof:

 

I suspect I'll just glue it, but had be toying with the idea of covering the roof with tissue soaked in dilute PVA to add a little texture and better represent canvas. Happily, I've utterly destroyed the Siphon roof

Which has snapped and been 'fixed' (YMMV) upwards of ten times. It needs all the help it can get, and so I was in the fortunate position of having a test subject to hand.

 

Mid process...

 

...and end process not shown cos I didn't get a pic, but in general I think it's a success. Certainly doesn't look any worse! I'll probably still end up making a new roof for the Siphon, but that's future-me's problem :)

 

Thanks for popping by!

 

 

*With nobs on. Still very rough, and feedback would be most welcome, but it currently looks like

that.

 

Removeable cassette connection lower left, as per, RHS masked to the operator somehow but open for views through/between the sheds. Pretty gentle turnout geometry, loop curve between settrack R3 and R4. 1900s GWR BLT - 4 wheel coaches, 3 plank wagons - with nominal arrival and departure platforms. Suspect in 'reality' it'd be one platform only (upper) in regular use, the other being used for parcels, coaching storage etc most of the day/year. Anyhoo...!

[37Oban]

Hi,

 

railway companies built buffer stops with only vertical posts, sunk into the ground, or with forward facing supports, for situations just like yours.

 

Roja