Ingleford Wharf: 1870s canalside inglenook on the "M&WJR" in 00, and Victoria Quay: a 1900s WIP in 0

[Michael Crofts]

On 28/07/2023 at 22:37, Schooner said:

 

William Ashburner getting a tow out of...somewhere...between the Wars, judging by her little tug, engine exhaust and struck square topsails. Note the cargo derricks and gin blocks rigged on the fore and main masts, a useful modelling reference. Anchor at the water ready to be let go if any of the infernal combustion engines throw a wobbly.

I am pretty sure this is Penzance, the impounded dock north of the South Pier which is protected by a half-tide gate. It's a lovely picture.

I can't resist adding a modern view with my boat Coracle moored against the part of the wall hidden by William Ashburner and somewhat squished by a rather domineering catamaran.

 

[Michael Crofts]

Perhaps a mariner's view of Fremington Quay might be of some interest. All the north Devon approaches are difficult - if you go up to the ex. Coastguard station at Padstow (now run by the National Coastwatch Institution) they have a map of all the wrecks in the entrance to the River Camel, dozens and dozens of them. The Taw and Torridge esutuaries are similarly littered.

 

From Reeds Almanac, 2019 edition

 

 

Chartlet - Fremington Quay no longer of any significance and not shown

 

Admiralty chart 2019, overview

 

Approach to Fremington Quay

 

Fremington Quay

 

[Schooner]

37 minutes ago, Michael Crofts said:

I am pretty sure this is Penzance, the impounded dock north of the South Pier which is protected by a half-tide gate.

Spot on, thank you! My sole visit to that berth was over ten years ago now, and I struggled to place the vague familiarity. I'm sure The Dolphin had nothing to do with it...! And Coracle looks a very proper little ship :) Were you there for/from a shot at the Scillies? It's aways from the Severn and the Forest.

 

Thank you also for the Almanac page and chartlets, looking forward to getting into those and having a little explore :)

 

Down the wharf

Some small but longstanding jobs have been ticked off, with the new gates in place and last bit of wall test fitted

and, in a fit of enthusiasm, glued in place (maintaining the top as the level between the different types - only had one segment of the original left and didn't wanna fork out for a new pack!). It'll need painted in situ; setts redone and the groundwork touched up on the other side. The fun never stops!

 

The little iron gate at the back is just a thought to blur the edge of the layout a little. I think I'm going to fit the other folding bracket to the edge of the baseboard here and use it to support another building when  the layout is in use. I repainted a Bachmann offering 

to fit in with the rest, before I came across the Skytrex and @JSModels options I ended up going with. The forced perspective it offers (being teeny tiny if truly 1:76, one suspects 1:87) could work quite well...we'll see.

 

Other buildings have found their final homes

Not much to see, but the lean-to has shifted sides on the timber office/workshop building, and the whole lot shifted to the back. It was a bit present if in line with the stables, but think this balances okay?

Must find that other vent...and then get in touch with @Harlequin to discuss a Mk.II... :) 

 

In celebration, a train was run

To my surprise Tipi needed no persuasion to get going, seeming to relish the extra weight. A problem of a coupling rod nut fouling the piston slide guides (correct term would be welcomed, thanks!) stopped play a couple of times, but has been solved. She's been drying today, with cab and backhead, smokebox front and chimney now in my preferred Petite Properties 'Wood Stove' black. First stab at getting some pipework on after this post...

 

Library addition:

Finally got my hands on this, from Lightmoor. Properly good, full of very useful information for Ingleford and the M&WJR and for general interest. Highly recommended for any with even a vaue interest in the area, or business, society and logistics in the 1880s and '90s. Expect plenty of excerpts and snippets from pictures here, and over at the D.299 stand as might be expected, in the nearish future.

 

Right, to the Neilson!

 

This evening's tunes come courtesy of a playlist, DJ and station I only came across this morning, but have found no reason to stop listening to since then (double-stacking with the repeat of Anna Lapwood's extraordinary Prom, do check it out, and tonight's as it broadcast live). Enjoy!

 

 

[MrWolf]

If I understand the problem you're having with the loco, the nut is fouling the slide bars.

I'm liking the attention you're paying to the fit and finish of the walls. Often because they're "just walls" people who model them don't pay attention to the way our ancestors did things even with very temporary structures, ( I've seen a lot of walls in model form that would simply fall over in real life). Yet they are quick to notice an incorrect rivet pattern on a loco or axle boxes on a wagon.

[lezz01]

As Wolfy said slide bars.

The piston is connected to the cross head by the piston rod. The cross head moves back and forth along the slide bars and is connected to the wheels by the connecting rod and this movement is transferred to the other driving wheels by the coupling rods. There is other stuff going on as well but that is happening between the frames out of sight so you don't need to model it although you could if you really wanted to.

Regards Lez.  

[Compound2632]

On 27/07/2023 at 23:30, Schooner said:

PS. Counter-intuitively, the most efficient way to fill a space for max weight is to use the larger shot rather than smaller (so as to minimise the number of gaps), correct?

 

Hum. For close-packed spheres, the ratio of solid sphere to space inbetween the spheres is constant, whatever the size of the spheres, so density is independent of sphere size. However, if the spheres are large relataive to the volume you're packing them into, you will end up with larger voids at the edges, and hence overall mass packed in will decrease. So little'uns are better.

[magmouse]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

So little'uns are better.

 

And if you allow a mix of sizes, as Louis illustrated, it gets better still, as the small ones can fit into the gaps left by the big ones - at the limit, if you have spheres of all sizes down to infinitesimally small, you approach 100% packing density. It's an interesting topic for the 'maths curious' amongst us: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sphere_packing

 

Nick.

[Compound2632]

I was assuming spheres of uniform size, being a physicist of very little brain.

[Michael Crofts]

I do like those setts. Very convincing, particularly the four falls to a central drain. But I wonder what the horse thinks about his empy hay rack... which reminds me of a plaintive letter reproduced in the book on James Smart where a bargee is asking for money and saying that their horse has nothing to eat.

 

To answer your question, yes in 2016 we waited 30 days for a weather window to get to the Scillies, but it never came, a bit like this summer after that lovely period of settled weather in May/June. So we headed up to Padstow as the next leg of that summer's cruise. Our current berth is Sutton Harbour in Plymouth. If they ever make a proper job of Lydney harbour I'd like to keep her there, but that may never happen. As you say, she is designed to be like a small ship with a hull speed of 8kts and a range of about 2,500 miles at 7kts.

 

The fender posts at Fremington Quay are a bit unusual - they have what appear to be sacrificial fenders fixed to the main posts with steel side plates. I can't remember seeing that anywhere else. I wonder if that's a modern addition. Old quays and jetties which used to be busy industrial paces are fascinating. I've started a gallery on Flickr for Fremington.

 https://flickr.com/photos/119194913@N05/galleries/72157721968723104/with/9256027812/

[Schooner]

15 hours ago, MrWolf said:

If I understand the problem you're having with the loco, the nut is fouling the slide bars.

You do, and thank you.

 

8 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

Hum.

+1 for intuition then, thank you. Was it perhaps in the context of coal that my wires got crossed, where density varies as much as grading. Some interesting stuff on this from the James Smart book, in due course. Autocorrect wants to turn that into 'Smartbook'. What on Earth is a Smartbook?!

 

In my case there is a secondary factor of trying to use up the larger size (from DCC Concepts, it turns out, which offers good value of cost vs. weight) where possible, making it desirable to use as possible, with Deluxe Materials' Liquid Gravity (about twice the price per gram as the other, but much smaller and heterogenous making for a 'better' product for adding weight to the small spaces we typically have available) as the packing only. One hell of a sentence, did we all remember to breathe?

 

Tungsten putty was new to me, following a lead from @5&9Models exquisite (and rather heavy!) Bury Goods. The blog demonstrates not only top-flight modelling but also the benefits of looking to earlier periods on smaller layouts: an all-singing all-dancing goods tender engine in (I guess) under 100mm? Ideal! Also weighs in at almost 1g/mm which is mighty impressive. And it's DCC!

No brainer, shhhurely?!

 

Anyway, the putty, sold for fishing weights in a variety of charming colours (mould, baby-poo, and Middle Chrome Green), isn't cheap, but is very useful - adding 15g to Tipi - and very user-friendly. Recommended.

 

15 hours ago, MrWolf said:

I'm liking the attention you're paying to the fit and finish of the walls.

Ta. I actually managed to overachieve and dropped the original walling a little too much, so this evening will be for sanding back the footings (a third, full length, basswood strip of same thickness as the other two) of the new section to get the desired line. As I've probably said before, the dream is for everything to look plausible to those who know about whatever it is, and ideally provide some info about time and place. If anyone has a friend with a particular interest in Victorian industrial brick walls then feel free to put me in touch...! The latest library addition gives some good info about brickmakers who provided materials for construction along the Stroud valley c.1890, but I wonder if that would hold true in the 1850s/-'60s. I suspect not

 

One useful tidbit of direct relevance to the M&WJR Lore is the confirmation that by the 1850s the canal was so rarely full across it's summit that barges in transit could only load c.20ton of coal, vs. the expected 50-60tons. One can see how, with a bit of a shove, alternative methods could have been made attractive to investors.

 

6 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

...being a physicist of very little brain.

🤣 Yes, I've often thought your posts lack sufficient information and erudition to compel.

 

 

4 hours ago, Michael Crofts said:

I do like those setts. Very convincing

All credit to @Giles, who supplied the embossing tool used! Designed for use in DAS, I found it gave even better results in expanded polystyrene (eg). As with the rest of the layout, they've suffered a bit over the course of the haphazard, and often rather destructive, progress and would benefit from a repaint once I've stopped messing about to blend them all a little better.

 

4 hours ago, Michael Crofts said:

Our current berth is Sutton Harbour in Plymouth.

The family base of operations since before I could walk, certainly long before its re-development! Know it well, and for my money the best place to keep a cruising boat along the entire south coast, with good options to get away no matter the weather or the forecast.

 

4 hours ago, Michael Crofts said:

a range of about 2,500 miles at 7kts.

Wow! That'll do you the Cape Verdes to Barbados, especially as it's downhill all the way. See you in the Caribbean next winter, then?!

 

4 hours ago, Michael Crofts said:

I've started a gallery on Flickr for Fremington.

Excellent, thanks for sharing the link :)

 

No loco pipework yest, too busy playing trains. Not remotely sorry :)

 

Stress-testing with 7 wagons on the move did highlight one potential issue though - the motor really struggles with the weight and drag of the inset curves at the same time. The nominal 'top speed' on the wharf is with the controller set to '30' (a light loco starting to move at 18-20); shunting a long rake into the quayside road requires the power to be set up to c.60 for reliability, at which point it is only a little faster than desired but much less controllable with stalls being a constant risk.

 

Immediate thoughts are to improve the free-rolling qualities of the wagons (not easily done as I'd put most in the 'pretty alright' category already, but possible in time) and to switch to DCC so the motor always has full power to draw on. Any other suggestions? In the normal run of things, locos will only be required to deal with max 3 wagons to/from the sidings, but even so I'd like to do all I can to achieve good slow-speed control and reliability.

Edited August 3, 2023 by Schooner

[Schooner]

In case it's any use, here a quick and dirty run through my quick and dirty wall-painting efforts:

 

1) Spray with red primer and a different red 'top coat', then use a cotton bud to make patchy

(pre-patches, above, sorry!)

 

2) Splodge with Petite Properties' Bea's Brick Red

I struggle to get a nice even coat with the PP range, so lean into it to get some easy tonal variation.

 

3) Apply mortar colour (I had used PP Wishy Washy Stone, but have turned my last of that into a, well, wash, so went for Dirty Stone instead), give a moment or two, then wipe off.

 

Far from perfect, but for a quick option to see if things work as intended and at normal viewing distances it's a decent time/effort/result compromise.

 

 

Why, my Donald? 'Kin why?

[Schooner]

 

Ah.

 

🤣

[Schooner]

Well, that's the wall in position without fouling the cassette (rookie error there!)...so I thought I might as well tie it in with a little extra landscape...and platform...and maybe move the shed back a bay...and...

 

Too tempting:

 

Questions:

What do you think is the most sympathetic way of dealing with the section through the platform?

 

Where should I be looking for wooden end-loading ramp/gubbins references?

 

Fairly sure I've seen a photo or two of semi-permanent bits of kit for this purpose, and that seems like the sort of thing the M&WJR might have gone in for. Cheap but flexible. My fave.

[magmouse]

1 hour ago, Schooner said:

Where should I be looking for wooden end-loading ramp/gubbins references?

It’s the sort of thing you might find almost anywhere in a photo, but not in any particular place. Here’s one for starters:

 

 

http://www.midlandrailway.org.uk/derby-registers/DY11917 released under the Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike (CC BY-NC-SA 3.0) licence by the National Railway Museum.

 

In this case,  a couple of thick metal plates do the job - there’s no permanent bit of kit. Looking at the difference in height between this implement wagon and the carriage truck to the left, a stock of plates and wooden packing pieces might have been the most flexible option, as well as cheap.

 

Nick.

[Schooner]

Thanks @magmouse, cracking photo :)

 

Mind you, my fave remains the below of Slough

It's no joke to say the railway station remains my favourite part of Slough.

 

This, however, isn't quite what I had in mind (although I did a rubbish job of explaining!) but is probably right. So, a pair of metal runners and some packing should be what I go for.

 

There has been a little progress down the 'ford but nothing worth photographing. So for now, some questions:

• Does anyone have the facility to compare running qualities of whitemetal vs. 3DP wagons of the same diagram vehicle? Thinking of ways to reduce the load on Tipi's motor for slow speed control.
• Is there a supplier of transfers for Robert. M. Webb & Coy (Carriers & Traders), or similar?
• In the same vein, would you drink a flagon of Henry Western's 'Thunder' Farmhouse Cider? If so, I'll be on the hunt for reference images of PO ventilated vans...

Edited August 7, 2023 by Schooner

[Michael Crofts]

On 04/08/2023 at 22:47, magmouse said:

.....   released under the Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike (CC BY-NC-SA 3.0) licence by the National Railway Museum.

'We used to provide links back to the images on the National Railway Museum's Derby Collection web site, but those web pages have now been taken off-line. Some of the images have been moved to a new web site under different terms and conditions at the Science & Society Picture library. You can try this search for the image, but I'm afraid it may well not find anything.'

I know a fair bit about copyright but I have become increasingly willing to make copies of everything I see which might be useful because so much of it just disappears either completely or behind paywalls, usually without warning. I am then faced with the dilemma of whether or not to share my collection with others. 

 

Anyway, here's my contribution. http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/c/cirencester_town/cirencester_town_old33.jpg

It shows metal plates just like the ones in the image of Slough. I wonder if these were (a) kept at the station, or (b) kept on board wagons like Lowmacs that needed them, or (c) despatched to a station on request like sheets, ropes and chains? Perhaps what happened was that when a wagon was ordered for booked traffic the same order would specify what other equipment was needed. I remember reading an article somewhere about circuses being moved by rail. The circus would specify what the traffic was and the railway would assemble all the necessary wagons and all the other equipment that would be needed to load, secure, and unload the traffic. 

[magmouse]

2 hours ago, Michael Crofts said:

I know a fair bit about copyright but I have become increasingly willing to make copies of everything I see which might be useful because so much of it just disappears either completely or behind paywalls, usually without warning. I am then faced with the dilemma of whether or not to share my collection with others. 

 

Yes, I feel the same. It is especially galling that images released under a Creative Commons licence are now behind a paywall, not because there is a rights owner protecting their property, but because an organisation is able to control access. I sometimes think we are over-cautious with distributing images - it is great that people want to respect the intellectual property of others, but quite a lot of content (especially older photos) is out of copyright, but put behind paywalls on the basis of 'we have the image, you don't, so we can charge you to access it, even though it is in the public domain'. I am especially thinking of some of the big commercial image libraries, who charge a crazy amount for something they don't own.

 

One of my 'if I was a billionaire' fantasies is to buy all those out-of-copyright images, and then put them on a well-advertised public website for free.

 

Nick.

[Schooner]

8 hours ago, Michael Crofts said:

Anyway, here's my contribution.

Lovely, ta :)

 

8 hours ago, Michael Crofts said:

I wonder if these were (a) kept at the station, or (b) kept on board wagons like Lowmacs that needed them, or (c) despatched to a station on request like sheets, ropes and chains? Perhaps what happened was that when a wagon was ordered for booked traffic the same order would specify what other equipment was needed.

Interesting question, no idea. Gut says a) but both b) and c) could make sense. The impression I get from the Slough image is that they're secured - nailed to the wooden edging perhaps? I see Mike's already had a gander, but wonder if it's the sort of thing @Compound2632 might have read about in the course of his research?

 

6 hours ago, magmouse said:

'we have the image, you don't, so we can charge you to access it, even though it is in the public domain'

This drives me mad, and I don't quite understand how it isn't fraud. As you noted before, Nick, the Swedes can chalk it up as another Thing Done Right (below is a preview only, for flavour. Please please check out the links!):

https://digitaltmuseum.se/021018033524/beyer-peacock-lok/media?slide=0

https://digitaltmuseum.se/021018186918/statens-jarnvagar-sj-b-8-stockholm-tillverkat-av-beyer-peacock-nr-126-levererat/media?slide=0

https://digitaltmuseum.se/021018186995/bj-9-tillverkat-av-beyer-peacock-co-1875/media?slide=0

https://digitaltmuseum.se/021018186998/bj-15-tillverkat-av-beyer-peacock-co-1875/media?slide=0

https://digitaltmuseum.org/021018095244/statens-jarnvagar-sj-f-67-sehrimner/media?slide=0

https://digitaltmuseum.org/021018091631/statens-jarnvagar-sj-f-72-njord/media?slide=0

https://digitaltmuseum.org/021018043105/statens-jarnvagar-sj-fa-65-starkodder/media?slide=0

https://digitaltmuseum.org/021018043105/statens-jarnvagar-sj-fa-65-starkodder/media?slide=0

https://digitaltmuseum.org/021018089757/statens-jarnvagar-sj-f-68-finnveden-station-och-lastplatsen-kilafors-nedre/media?slide=0

etc etc etc. I don't know what the Science Museum Group thinks it's playing at.

 

Anyhoo; the phone rang a couple of days ago, as you might've noticed by the relative calm which has settled over the thread this week. No more modelling till October or so, so with the last of my time, instead of getting everything cleared, cleaned and tidied, I posed some bits and bobs and took a couple of pics :)

 

Overview:

 

Random views:

 

That'll give me something to look at, keep the imagination ticking over and the jobs list ticking up!

[Mikkel]

3 hours ago, Schooner said:

Random views

 

Nice views! The hull under construction works really well.  

 

Good to see that there's still some GWR stock around, despite the Viking raid 🙂

 

[Fishplate]

On 11/08/2023 at 04:59, Mikkel said:

Nice views! The hull under construction works really well.  

 

Agreed, an unusual modelling item I've not seen before. Really like it. Would be interested in knowing how the finished vessel will be launched.

 

Somewhere (!) I have a link to an old photo of the creekside line at Faversham which crossed a slipway from a boat yard. The track appears removable. I 'll see if I can dig it out. 

 

On 10/08/2023 at 15:48, Michael Crofts said:

I have become increasingly willing to make copies of everything I see which might be useful because so much of it just disappears either completely or behind paywalls, usually without warning. I am then faced with the dilemma of whether or not to share my collection with others

 

I tend to take a snip of the photo, save on a word document, and paste the link underneath. Then if the link is broken at least I still have the picture and know I can't post it.it

 

I presume the Google image search could find the picture again to enable a new link to be found (?). Not had the opportunity / need to do that as yet.

[Schooner]

Statement of intent:

 

Only  very rough mock-up, but better'n nowt! Long boat and barge to follow, but priority is playing trains and getting back into the feel of Ingleford life before getting stuck in to any more projects.

 

First of these is painting the stock, which includes following up with @railtec-models's excellent support for some bespoke transfer. I think we're settled on the MWJR using a horseshoe as their totem - any dissenters make your case now! Most opens in grey, most covered vehicles in some form of red (?) with an outlier or two in yellow, brown and/or black.

 

The 4W Siphon I'd love to model as if in varnished wood, not painted (to un-GWR it as much as possible). Not just because @Compound2632 said it was difficult, but I think it'd suit quite nicely, and make for a good base if it's to become a PO vehicle (Weston's 'Thunder' Farmhouse Cider?)For this I was thinking of using the teaking technique seen round, for example, @woko's gorrrgeous carriages; with colours to suit fresh softwood recently varnished. Any advances/alternatives?

 

With that done, I might be able to justify all the extra stock I want to buy but can't afford!

 

The vessels will be long term projects, probably chipped away at whilst swapping stand-ins on the layout for better models - the shed and timber crane being top of the list. 

 

Anyway, was in the neighbourhood and thought I'd drop in. Hope we're all well?

[NHY 581]

Mange Tout, Louis.

 

All good here. Sounds splendid. Carry on. 

 

SB

 

 

[BWsTrains]

What caught my eye was your fine selection of wagons and carts which gives a feel for the period. It motivates me to add more than my modest one to my own later setting. IMO it'll work for the end of the line rural setting.

 

The marine element shows promise, nice to see you back.

[Mikkel]

Very nice. I like the position too, overlapping with the goods shed.

 

Speaking of the goods shed, has Big Jim been kicking the corner post again? I suppose anger management wasn't a thing back then.

 

 

[woko]

18 hours ago, Schooner said:

Statement of intent:

 

Only  very rough mock-up, but better'n nowt! Long boat and barge to follow, but priority is playing trains and getting back into the feel of Ingleford life before getting stuck in to any more projects.

 

First of these is painting the stock, which includes following up with @railtec-models's excellent support for some bespoke transfer. I think we're settled on the MWJR using a horseshoe as their totem - any dissenters make your case now! Most opens in grey, most covered vehicles in some form of red (?) with an outlier or two in yellow, brown and/or black.

 

The 4W Siphon I'd love to model as if in varnished wood, not painted (to un-GWR it as much as possible). Not just because @Compound2632 said it was difficult, but I think it'd suit quite nicely, and make for a good base if it's to become a PO vehicle (Weston's 'Thunder' Farmhouse Cider?)For this I was thinking of using the teaking technique seen round, for example, @woko's gorrrgeous carriages; with colours to suit fresh softwood recently varnished. Any advances/alternatives?

 

With that done, I might be able to justify all the extra stock I want to buy but can't afford!

 

The vessels will be long term projects, probably chipped away at whilst swapping stand-ins on the layout for better models - the shed and timber crane being top of the list. 

 

Anyway, was in the neighbourhood and thought I'd drop in. Hope we're all well?

This is already looking fantastic, can't wait to see the progress :)

 

PS. I wish i could take credit for the Teaking effect but the process was pioneered by the very talented  @MikeTrice who has some great tutorials and stunning models show casing his teaking genius :)