Ingleford Wharf: 1870s canalside inglenook on the "M&WJR" in 00, and Victoria Quay: a 1900s WIP in 0

[MrWolf]

I'm surprised that none of the manufacturers of embossed or moulded sheet have produced a version of stone roof tiles considering how prevalent it is in many parts of the country and tricky to recreate from scratch.

[AlfaZagato]

Probably tricky to cast or mold, too.   Also, there would be immediate complaints that they're too regular or repetitive.  

[Schooner]

Agreed. The roof was the reason the Wills Barn and Forge kits were chosen over other options. Spot on for stone roofs, and proof it should be possible:

I will clean the layout soon, promise...just as soon as I stop making a mess...

Lunchtime diversion:

Photo from the Kennet and Avon, but you get the idea.

First pass using what was to hand. These fences and gates were pretty common in the area as pasture was left open to the canal, but the field boundaries still needed to be maintained. Cheaper than fencing off the towpath I guess, and a nice little modellable detail. Win/win.

 

[Graham T]

The wooden horizontals look especially good - how did you make those please?

 

[Schooner]

@Graham T, @NeilHB The usual - by cheating* :)

 

*That said, I've now developed a stash of posts and rails which I'm planning to use as a sort of kit to fence a couple of awkward places

 

Does was it says on the tin really, they're not perfect but not bad at all. I'll give them a lick of paint in time, but they're usable straight out of the packet. Flexible, fairly chop-and-changeable, and (useful for me) easy to remove and change placement 17 times in quick succession!

 

Eventually I'll get around to updating the first post to re-upload the layout plan etc, and in that edit I'll link to products used with a pic of how each of them turned out. Something I wish others would do; better make a start on it myself...

Edited November 16, 2022 by Schooner
Edit: Should now link correctly

[Graham T]

But you still didn't say where you got them!  😉

 

I agree, posting links to products would be handy.  I often (as in this post) see something, usually scenery-related, and think, oh yes - I need to get some of those.

 

[Schooner]

Link now fixed, should be a bit more helpful 🤣

 

I picked up mine from Rails, but I note they're available elsewhere for a couple quid less so it's worth a scout about for a deal!

Edited November 16, 2022 by Schooner
Syntax

[Schooner]

At risk of overachieving 

a brass kit arrived today, and a start has been made

with my first ever bit of 'structural' soldering. God knows if it's meant to look like that, but it's not fallen off yet so I'm chalking it up as a win. Instruction #1 (of 37) complete. A halt has been called halfway through #2, as it calls for the fittings of "the bushes" into the buffer beam to take the buffer bodies...and no bushes can I find.

 

Looking for some references and guidance, I've found there are a couple of blogs (eg) - missing most of their photos, sadly - but the best information on the build comes from Wizard's promo pics:

which, if nothing else, show me what I'm missing when it comes to bushings!

 

It terms finish, I think it should be in fully lined brown (like this example), but that's beyond me. Happily gwr.org has an excellent photo of an N8, captioned as probably ex-works in 1896, in a varnished all-over brown. This gives me a look to aim for...eventually!

 

All advice, corrections, criticism, opinions, information and passing thoughts invited :)

[Schooner]

#2-6 ✅

 

[Schooner]

#7-12 ✅

Getting quite into this little and often lark! Sitting endurance is still only in the ten-fifteen minute range, but that's turning out to be a viable approach to brass. Find and fettle a piece; break; fit and fix a piece; break; rinse, dry and read next instructions; break. Frustration appears to have unlimited range, but this is a more positive outlet than many :)

 

In one of those breaks I had a little think about loco facilities at the Wharf:

Is there any evidence for anything like that (water cart and barrow of coal) anywhere, at any point?!

 

Almost time for crumpets and rugby, happy Saturday :)

[Compound2632]

That looks exceptionally neat soldering!

[Compound2632]

Just a thought. If you are modelling this in pre-c. 1903-ish condition, omit the train alarm gear.

[Annie]

2 hours ago, Schooner said:

#7-12 ✅

Getting quite into this little and often lark! Sitting endurance is still only in the ten-fifteen minute range, but that's turning out to be a viable approach to brass. Find and fettle a piece; break; fit and fix a piece; break; rinse, dry and read next instructions; break. Frustration appears to have unlimited range, but this is a more positive outlet than many :)

 

 Shiny 😀  Your soldering is wonderfully neat.  Really lovely in fact.

 

2 hours ago, Schooner said:

Is there any evidence for anything like that (water cart and barrow of coal) anywhere, at any point?!

I'm fairly certain odd piles of coal and anything that could hold water put somewhere handy were fairly commonplace in small yards.  That water tank looks a bit small though, but it's certainly portable in that it could be taken off to the nearest pump and refilled.

On my own light railways I've got piles of coal as well as the occasional couple of sacks of coal left in handy spots, but water is mostly handled by a wind pump and a fixed in place permanent water tank .  Nothing particularly special, - an oblong riveted iron tank mounted on a heavyweight timber framework does the job. 

[Schooner]

On 19/11/2022 at 16:14, Compound2632 said:

...omit the train alarm gear.

The brackets for which are the little lugs in the upper corners of the step end? Noted, thank you. The point is also made in the instructions, but I thought I'd roll with them a) as extra locating lugs (they and the lower steps are actually part of the sides, as per the far end) and b) a lot easier to remove than add!

 

Thank you also @Annie My general thoughts are that any fixed infrastructure would be OTT for both aesthetic and narrative, but good to know :) 

22 hours ago, Annie said:

 Shiny 😀

I know, makes me feel like a proper modeler 🤣

 

I'm afraid I can't accept any praise for the soldering - they're just flattering photos, hiding most of the soldering and ignoring the tidying done with a fibreglass brush! I'll make sure to take a 'warts and all' shot when there's more to show. I have no intention to turn this into a blow-by-blow account of the build, but I hope it provides enough info to encourage anyone on the edge of this sort of carry-on to have a go. Part of that is being open about tools used, steps taken and results achieved!

 

No real modelling today, but I did trip over a Langley gibbet crane earlier and thought I'd try it out:

Roughly in position.

 

Rail clearance is fine, likewise horse wagon with the top farm wagon being about the same height as the bottom of the brace.

 

Not quite plumb for the rails but near enough to be possible, if not entirely plausible.

 

On balance I'm not totally convinced...but I do quite like it :) It breaks up the blockish ex-water mill, chimes with the timber canal crane, gives another spot along the siding for specific traffic. What have I missed?

[Compound2632]

4 hours ago, Schooner said:

The brackets for which are the little lugs in the upper corners of the step end?

 

That's them. It took several years for all vehicles to be equipped as, the railway companies having agreed what equipment to standardise on (through the RCH), the sole manufacturer was deluged with orders that they didn't have the capacity to fulfill!

Edited November 20, 2022 by Compound2632

[Schooner]

I like it less now it's built up, even allowing for the black primer.

Painting in more sympathetic tones will reduce the visual impact significantly...but not enough, I think. I'll knock off the actuator wheel (they'll just have to pull harder or lift less), replace the headstays with finer wire and see where that leaves us. The idea's alright, but the execution is falling short so far.

 

Dunce question:

The small tabs sticking down from the W irons (in the photo above; sticking up when fitted). What and why are they? I thought they were locating tabs, but it seems not; I thought they were spacing tabs (to match the height of the rocking axle at the other end), but it seems not; I thought to hell with it, I'll just cut them off...but it seems worth checking in here first :)

 

Apparently I'm working sans brain at the moment, so please feel free to explain it to me like I'm really really hard of thinking. Thank you!

[WFPettigrew]

12 minutes ago, Schooner said:

The small tabs sticking down from the W irons (in the photo above; sticking up when fitted). What and why are they?

I am not familiar with that particular type, but are they tabs for the non-rocking end of a compensated system?  

 

In other words, that extra bit of height to the floor is needed at the fixed end, while at the rocking end you don't have them, and that thickness is taken up by the second etch that allows it to rock, and so gives you that "three legged stool" designed to keep more of the wheels on the track?

 

I may be completely wrong - depends on if they came with an extra flat plate with a couple of tabs that once bent up allow the W iron to rock. 

 

Hope this helps.

 

Neil 

[Worsdell forever]

10 minutes ago, Schooner said:

I like it less now it's built up, even allowing for the black primer.

Painting in more sympathetic tones will reduce the visual impact significantly...but not enough, I think. I'll knock off the actuator wheel (they'll just have to pull harder or lift less), replace the headstays with finer wire and see where that leaves us. The idea's alright, but the execution is falling short so far.

 

Dunce question:

The small tabs sticking down from the W irons (in the photo above; sticking up when fitted). What and why are they? I thought they were locating tabs, but it seems not; I thought they were spacing tabs (to match the height of the rocking axle at the other end), but it seems not; I thought to hell with it, I'll just cut them off...but it seems worth checking in here first :)

 

Apparently I'm working sans brain at the moment, so please feel free to explain it to me like I'm really really hard of thinking. Thank you!

I would imagine leave them as they are for the rigid end and folded in/cut off for the rocking end, leave them both as they are for fully rigid. Depends of course if this is how its designed  

[magmouse]

27 minutes ago, Schooner said:

Painting in more sympathetic tones will reduce the visual impact significantly...but not enough, I think. I'll knock off the actuator wheel (they'll just have to pull harder or lift less), replace the headstays with finer wire and see where that leaves us. The idea's alright, but the execution is falling short so far.

 

I would see the effect of finer stay wires, adding a rope/hook, and painting, before deciding to remove the wheel. To my eye, the wheel is a big part of the character and interest of this. Sometimes I think you just need to add some delicate details to lighten the whole effect. It would be a shame to lose it altogether.

 

Nick.

[MrWolf]

It would actually need the wheel to work, it has an endless chain looped over it that comes down close to the floor, pulling on that is what rotates the lifting drum. The big wheel gives you mechanical advantage.

Try dry brushing with lighter shades of black plus grey in increasing proportion and finish off with drybrushing some metallic gunmetal grey, it gives an effect of tarry wood, that silvery sheen you get on old telegraph poles for instance.

[Schooner]

@WFPettigrew, @Worsdell forever Thank you both. I'd assumed this too but was rather thrown by there being just the one, and that being off-centre. I'll have another look tomorrow with your advice in mind, see what happens...!

 

1 hour ago, magmouse said:

It would be a shame to lose it altogether.

Agreed :)

 

54 minutes ago, MrWolf said:

It would actually need the wheel to work

It could be worked by gear as per the canal crane, no?

 

Burbage crane can be worked from both sides, so that's four blokes heaving on a pair of big levers driving an even bigger lever. Not as big as a typical actuator wheel, but then there's not manpower constraints to mitigate. The crane was originally built in 1830, the wharf trading heavily in stone, timber and brick. Rebuilt in the 1979 and 2012, the metalwork is thought to be original. The whole lot seemed a nice steal for Ingleford.

 

Overkill to use an identical system on the wall crane of course, but would it be so strange for it to share a design ethos with its waterside sibling?

 

59 minutes ago, MrWolf said:

it has an endless chain

As covered at length a while back over at Warren, little evidence of endless chain loops. It seems a bit of a Clyde Pufferism! Builders diagrams and photos frequently show rope dead-ended on the wheel:

 

 

Another photo posted previously in @chuffinghell's thread showed the attachment clearly, in that case at least it was just a stopper through a hole in the wheel rim. Ditching some of the chain will further soften the visuals too.

 

1 hour ago, MrWolf said:

it gives an effect of tarry wood

Ideal, ta :)

[MrWolf]

I was a part of the discussion on Warren branch when the goods shed crane was being discussed, particularly about how the real thing operates. I did provide a number of pictures and diagrams, including a sketch of how the drive rope is rigged with a double pass over the drum in some cases, both ends being secured to the bottom drum, rather than one end to the pulley.

To be honest I didn't spot that your model has a lower drive to the large pulley, there being a horse in the way. 

There certainly are lightweight cranes operated from a loop chain in the same way as a chain block, but in the case of your crane, no. 

The canal crane is built in such a way that all of the gearing is at ground level,as is the actual lift drum. What you have has a separate lift drum at the top, driven and geared down by a second drum at ground level, so the large pulley is part of the equation of the gearing. 

I don't think that it will look out of place at all once painted and detailed as you say, the black paint makes it stand out too much.

[IanM78]

The actual crane at Cirencester Wharf was an interesting design.

 

 

[MrWolf]

Now that is an interesting beast, I'd like to have seen that working.

I've been trying to find pictures for another job of the crane between the canal wharf and Storey's factory in Lancaster. One of the first electric jobs which lifted bunker tubs out of barges and over to the boiler house.

[Annie]

5 hours ago, IanM78 said:

The actual crane at Cirencester Wharf was an interesting design.

Love all the washing on the line.  How often do you see details like that on a model railway.