The Siphon G, by Accurascale - From Milk To Mail!

[Neal Ball]

15 hours ago, Accurascale Fran said:

 

Hi Gerry,

 

We know that the "white roof v grey roof on GWR" debate has rumbled on for a long time before we came along. Paint technology then was not what it was now. Lead paint was cut with a high chalk content to get white pigments, which then oxidise on contact with air, revealing the grey lead particles. So, painted white, and turned grey. As our models are pristine finish, white roof it is. 

 

 

As you can see in the artwork for the other vans, we will have the distinctive cut out into the roof paint where appropriate too.

 

Cheers!

 

Fran 

This looks superb, thanks Fran and team. 

[Ian Hargrave]

10 hours ago, steve45 said:

Can I justify purchasing one of these if I model the BR 1960's period around Manchester and also around Birmingham (Midland Region) - 2 different layouts?

 

I know I can use Rule 1 but I'm trying to rationalise my purchases to relevant prototypes if possible.

We know that the LMR couldn’t wait to rid itself of WR hydraulics but an overnight mass cull of all WR stock was never  going to happen out of pretty obvious practical necessity . The Birmingham area,particularly out of Snow Hill had a very intensive suburban network and service,apart from the need for….in those days….other stock such as parcels vans and of course the ubiquitous Siphon G. From the regional changes of the early 60’s much stock would be cascaded elsewhere so maybe one or two might find themselves gracing the Manchester area. 
 

   Talking of which,going at a slight tangent, does anyone remember the famous York/Newcastle-Manchester Red Bank Parcels,often heavy loaded and thus frequently double headed in steam daysfrom York over the Pennines ?  You might possibly have spotted a Siphon G in that…with a Scot & Black 5 at the head .

 

[The Stationmaster]

15 hours ago, gwrrob said:

 

It might be blasphemy in these parts but I've always used LNER garter blue to paint my kit builds @BenL😉

Not sure where or when - and might even be preservation era?? - but I would be quite happy with that Rob.  And in any case as it was blue paint never overlook the fact that blue weathered poorly and in any case even the top section of axleboxes (the bit which was painted blue) got grubby.

[31A]

On 21/07/2022 at 13:37, Phatbob said:

Shouldn't the ends be black on the steam era models, in the same way as passenger coaches were at the time?

 

 

On 21/07/2022 at 13:47, Accurascale Fran said:

 

Hi @Phatbob,

 

As per our history blog on the Siphons, you can see in the colour image in the header that the model is correct https://www.accurascale.com/blogs/news/from-milk-to-the-mail-the-history-of-the-siphon-g

 

Cheers!

 

Fran 

 

Sorry, but I agree with Phatbob.  I believe that as with passenger coaches, red ends on Non Passenger Carrying Coaching Stock date from when spray painting was introduced (1964/5 according to the Parkin BR Mk1 bible) and maroon vans painted before that, and all crimson ones, should have had black ends, again as per passenger carrying vehicles.

 

[The Stationmaster]

8 minutes ago, 31A said:

 

 

Sorry, but I agree with Phatbob.  I believe that as with passenger coaches, red ends on Non Passenger Carrying Coaching Stock date from when spray painting was introduced (1964/5 according to the Parkin BR Mk1 bible) and maroon vans painted before that, and all crimson ones, should have had black ends, again as per passenger carrying vehicles.

 

Fascinating how a BR workshop managed to get paint runs on spray painted Siphons.

[Accurascale Fran]

57 minutes ago, 31A said:

 

 

Sorry, but I agree with Phatbob.  I believe that as with passenger coaches, red ends on Non Passenger Carrying Coaching Stock date from when spray painting was introduced (1964/5 according to the Parkin BR Mk1 bible) and maroon vans painted before that, and all crimson ones, should have had black ends, again as per passenger carrying vehicles.

 

 

Hi Steve,

 

If you click on the link I provided you will see a colour photograph of a crimson one which matches the model. What cant speak cant lie as they say.

 

Cheers!

 

Fran 

[Phatbob]

When it comes to interpreting visual evedence, I'm reminded of the following joke which illustrates the levels to which one may or may not put all one's trust in it. :-)

An astronomer, a physicist and a mathematician are on a train as it crosses the border into Scotland. The astronomer looks out of the window, sees a black sheep standing in a field, and remarks, "How odd. All sheep in Scotland are black." "No, no, no!" says the physicist. "that sheep is black." The mathematician rolls his eyes at his companions' muddled thinking and says, "In Scotland, there is at least one field, containing at least one sheep, that appears to be black on one side."

 

[andythenorth]

27 minutes ago, Phatbob said:

An astronomer, a physicist and a mathematician are on a train as it crosses the border into Scotland...

 

Do you want some philosophers added to the joke too?  One wouldn't be enough...

 

Glad I'm not Accurascale, helpful as all this feedback is in the pursuit of total fidelity, it must be a drag on certain Fridays 🙃

 

Tempted to start a deliberately-wrong 'could have been' manufacturer. 😛

Edited July 22, 2022 by andythenorth

[Phatbob]

5 minutes ago, andythenorth said:

Do you want some philosophers added to the joke too?  One wouldn't be enough...

 

Glad I'm not Accurascale, helpful as all this feedback is in the pursuit of total fidelity, it must be a drag on certain Fridays 🙃

 

Tempted to start a deliberately-wrong 'could have been' manufacturer. 😛

I'm sure that Accurascale have done their research properly and looked at more than one sheep (or in this case, colour photograph).  We all know what a real railway is like.  Never say "never" and never say "always".  Rules are one thing, but custom and practice are sometimes something else.
Ces't la vie.

[JohnR]

As a Southern Region modeller, I am by no means an expert on the painting practices of "the Other Railway", but I believe they followed the same practice in BR days as the SR, and that black ends on NPCCS was a relatively late (1960s) change to the style for these vehicles, therefore both types can be correct (if you can see the difference under the dirt!)

 

Bachmann, for example, have produced Southern Region versions of their vans with both green ends, and black ends. 

[31A]

2 hours ago, Accurascale Fran said:

 

Hi Steve,

 

If you click on the link I provided you will see a colour photograph of a crimson one which matches the model. What cant speak cant lie as they say.

 

Cheers!

 

Fran 

 

I did look at the link, but if you mean the picture the link brings up at the head of the page that looks like a maroon van rather than a 'crimson' one - I can't see any other colour pictures on that page, or black and white ones where you can distinguish the colours?  If I am looking in the wrong place, I apologise.

There are plenty of pictures of NPCCS in for example David Larkin's series of books where you can clearly distinguish the different (black) end colour from the red sides - I don't see why Siphons would be painted differently to other vans.

[31A]

3 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Fascinating how a BR workshop managed to get paint runs on spray painted Siphons.

 

I didn't mean to imply whether Siphons themselves were painted by spray or by brush, I don't know which method was used for painting vans at Swindon (although I can't see any paint runs; perhaps you are looking at a different picture to me?) but rather that the change in specification from black to red ends took place at the time that spray painting was brought in generally for all coaching stock vehicles.

[meatloaf]

When are these due? Do i pay now or when there sent out?

[Pedro32]

45 minutes ago, meatloaf said:

When are these due? Do i pay now or when there sent out?

Latest update can be found here: https://www.accurascale.com/blogs/news/special-delivery-decorated-siphon-g-bogie-van-samples-arrive

 

Hope that’s of help.

[gwrrob]

Does anyone know the date when the overhead warning labels were first fitted. Asking for a friend who's tempted by the carmine/maroon versions.😉

[tractionman]

1 hour ago, meatloaf said:

When are these due? Do i pay now or when there sent out?

 

'delivery in late Q4 2022/early Q1 2023 before the factory closes for Chinese New Year' is the estimate according to the Accurascale website.

[TrevorP1]

2 hours ago, gwrrob said:

Does anyone know the date when the overhead warning labels were first fitted. Asking for a friend who's tempted by the carmine/maroon versions.😉

1961 or 62 I think.

[Ian Hargrave]

9 hours ago, TrevorP1 said:

1961 or 62 I think.

The first 25Kv OHLE operational service was between Crewe and Manchester dated IIRC 1960.

[Jack P]

This seems the appropriate place to ask if anyone has any good photos of post war, pre BR GWR siphon lettering/numbering?

[Dunsignalling]

18 hours ago, 31A said:

 

I didn't mean to imply whether Siphons themselves were painted by spray or by brush, I don't know which method was used for painting vans at Swindon (although I can't see any paint runs; perhaps you are looking at a different picture to me?) but rather that the change in specification from black to red ends took place at the time that spray painting was brought in generally for all coaching stock vehicles.

Repairs and painting of stock with planked-timber bodywork might have been more appropriately dealt with in wagon repair shops by the time spray painting was adopted for a WR coach fleet that was almost entirely steel-bodied by 1964, so the issue may be moot.

 

If you are looking at the same photo as me, the vehicle in question had clearly been fading for a good few years when it was taken and the next paint it got would, in all likelihood, be blue.

 

John

 

 

Edited July 23, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[gwrrob]

2 hours ago, Jack P said:

This seems the appropriate place to ask if anyone has any good photos of post war, pre BR GWR siphon lettering/numbering?

 

Shirtbutton will still be fine for our period @Jack P

[The Stationmaster]

23 hours ago, 31A said:

 

I didn't mean to imply whether Siphons themselves were painted by spray or by brush, I don't know which method was used for painting vans at Swindon (although I can't see any paint runs; perhaps you are looking at a different picture to me?) but rather that the change in specification from black to red ends took place at the time that spray painting was brought in generally for all coaching stock vehicles.

I saw paint runs when looking at the vehicles themselves although my really close acquaintance with them didn't come until the blue era -when they were a common everyday sight in our yard,

[57xx]

On 21/07/2022 at 14:53, Accurascale Fran said:

 

Hi Mark,

 

That's one heavily laden Siphon! I think the angles of our pics, combined with the subject matter surveyed being lighter in load (but not unladen IIRC) results in the difference.

 

Cheers!

 

Fran 

 

Hi Fran ,I think you have got your thinking backwards (or upside down). the heavier the load, the bigger the gap between the bottom of the axlebox and the tiebar. An uladen/lightly loaded van would have the axleboxes closer to the tiebar. The gap on your model pics looks larger than the prototype pic Mark showed and also ones from your site..

 

 

[andythenorth]

The preserved Siphon G at Didcot appears to have a large gap between axlebox and tiebar, but also has a different bogie pattern with tierods, so eh 🙃 https://didcotrailwaycentre.org.uk/article.php/146/no-2796-collett-siphon-g#gallery-2

 

Whether it's right or wrong, I doubt I'll be cancelling my order 😉

 

Late stage capitalism anyone? 

 

 

Edited July 23, 2022 by andythenorth

[57xx]

12 hours ago, andythenorth said:

The preserved Siphon G at Didcot appears to have a large gap between axlebox and tiebar, but also has a different bogie pattern with tierods, so eh 🙃 https://didcotrailwaycentre.org.uk/article.php/146/no-2796-collett-siphon-g#gallery-2

 

The Dicot Siphon currently has 7' , not the 9ft ones. The area in question is different as shown here:

 

Edit: As built, it had ex-articulated stock 8ft 6" bogies.

Edited July 24, 2022 by 57xx
Bad memory