Hornby 2022 Range - pre-announcement frothing - now closed

[JohnR]

1 hour ago, mdvle said:

 

In which case you aren't really suggesting anything that is going to save significant money.

 

 

But how many multiple units are currently coming with people or smoke so those features can be left out?

 

As for lights, not really something that is practical for most to add as a separate item.

 

DCC/Sound already is an extra cost option.

 

Extra cars won't be tooled if only a small percentage of buyers buy them (on the assumption that they require unique tooling).  So either it will be a full length multiple unit or a short version.

 

So your not really proposing anything that is going to save any money, other than perhaps the omitting of some intermediate cars.

 

 

There were the two versions of the Tornado. An approach I dont think they've repeated. 

[adb968008]

32 minutes ago, JohnR said:

 

There were the two versions of the Tornado. An approach I dont think they've repeated. 

71000, P2, Hall, mk1’s, mk2e’s, Crosti 9f also followed this pattern, it was more about being cheap with the paint job, and sticking in poorer motors, but also offer a better version with full paint job and better motor in the main range.

 

Design Clever, but best not open that can of worms, it was panned for making super detailed models a bit less detailed (such as moulded features rather than separate), and Railroad models that were competing less favourably than the exact same models made in years past, which did have the full paint spec.

 

The railroad coaches though seemed popular, priced less than the main range (£20 vs £30) , many just bought separate metal wheels and did without the lights, so both ultimately seemed to have sold out, except the Brake coaches of both types. Since then the main range coaches are now £40 and without lights.

 

“Railroad plus” seems to have learned the lessons from this.. stick a good quality paint job on an old model, sold cheap and it will still sell, but keep the main range separate.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 27, 2021 by adb968008

[Hilux5972]

Fully accurate Royal Train coaches would be a good hit for the Jubilee year I think. 

[newbryford]

2 hours ago, mdvle said:

 

 

 

Yet the Blue Pullman was a success, the Class 800 is a success, and more recently Accurascale's Mk5 coaches (sold in packs and not individually) have apparently been a success - which seems to directly contradict the MU's won't sell wisdom.

 

 

The TPE Mk5 aren't a real MU comparison though - although I have compared them below.

 

One advantage of the A/S TPE Mk5 set is that you can split the purchase into two more manageable chunks - the coaches and the 68.

And I'll bet in many cases many folk (me included) have already bought the 68 "just because" and they can be seen elsewhere, not just on TPE services.

 

And there's something a bit more glam about the TPE set when compared to say a humble 150.

 

£420 or less for a 6-vehicle TPE set with loco, or £250 for a 2-car Northern 150? (£750 for the equivalent 6-cars)

The 5-car 800 is typically just shy of £400.

 

I know where my hard-earned is going....................... especially when I can get 5 TPE coaches for £255 and I already have a suitable 68.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DutyDruid]

Ok, have to add my two penn'orth...

 

Based on my items recently completed:

• 4COR (I managed to get a friend to sort out my Phoenix kit just before lockdown)

Based on things currently cluttering my workbench:

• A revision of the Railroad 33 pre-fitted with an Orbit Track Cleaner - remember them?
• The SR Maunsell TPO and Stowage Van - I've just acquired the Phoenix kits for these 2 coaches.
• A Bulleid/Raworth CC1/CC2/CC3 Booster Loco (electric) - likewise a recent acquisition of a badly started CC3 kit (that's the original Class 70 in new money)

Things further up the thread that have caught my eye:

• S160
• Maunsell Z
• New multiple units
  • 4CIG/4BIG - Should be in the previous list as I have a Southern Pride kit to build
  • I've recently rekindled my relationship with the Withered Arm and some WR 1st generation DMMUs would get my attention

Things that I think have been neglected for far too long

• Mk1s in maroon with Western Region numbers - I've only ever seen the Model Rail "specials" they did some years back, not all WR coaches were Chocolate and Cream.

Interesting thoughts here as always, here's looking forward to the announcement which I will look at a couple of days after the internet has recovered from the initial onslaught...

 

Elliott

Edited December 27, 2021 by DutyDruid
Identified the SR electric loco with its TOPS designation

[Steamport Southport]

If we're doing serious guesses I reckon a GWR 4-6-0 that isn't a Manor.

 

No peeping.....

 

 

 

 

 

Jason

[Chris89]

4 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

If we're doing serious guesses I reckon a GWR 4-6-0 that isn't a Manor.

 

No peeping.....

 

 

 

 

 

Jason

 

Wouldn't put it past Hornby to do a Manor though :/

 

Either way, another one for going forward from 8pin sockets, so to enable more features for Diesel/Electric also potential for Steam to.

 

If EMU's. Something Scottish, 385,334, 303 etc.

[Shedmaster]

1 hour ago, Hilux5972 said:

Fully accurate Royal Train coaches would be a good hit for the Jubilee year I think. 

Hi, 

I'd have to agree with this and it would also tie in with the expected upgrade/re-release of their HST offering. Without getting into the HST vs LOCO HAULED type conversation, as I don't know about these details, I wonder if Hornby had the basic Mk3 bodyshell sorted, would that mean they could then model ANY variant?

 

Current DB spec Royal 67's then become an option for Hornby as well, so maximising the tooling on those? 

 

Whatever they get up to, I would really just like to see a worthwhile effort made with painting whatever it is. 

 

When they want to, Hornby are more than capable of doing amazing work, unfortunately they also suffer from self inflicted issues that must surely cost them noticeable sums of money and could be avoided?

 

I'm happy to remind Mr K repeatedly of his cringeworthy but perfectly valid mantra's.... 

 

DETAIL, DETAIL, DETAIL

 

and, 

 

It's for KEEPS! 

 

I hope they have a decent 2022 of course, but I can't help wishing I could be a fly on Mr K's office wall everytime Accurascale and others have an announcement to make! 

 

Kindest Regards, 

 

Shed. 

[mdvle]

2 hours ago, adb968008 said:

I think you may need a little more research.

 

I think it would help if you would read what I actually post, and not reply to what you mistakenly think I posted.

 

2 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Hornbys made more Multiple units than any other company, my count (I think ive got the order release order right)…18

 

Stuff tooled 10+ years ago when the market was very different don't really count.  The market has moved on, and the costs of tooling/production have moved on.

 

2 hours ago, adb968008 said:

of that lot, they have offered separately centre cars for the Metcam, Bil, 110, 156, Belle, Pendo, Azuma and Eurostar… which is just about everyone they could possibly do.

 

I dont think anyone other than Rapido’s APT-E have done this approach, but its something Hornby has successfully made work.

 

If you care to go back and read what I actually wrote, I said separate centre cars that required unique tooling.

 

There is a big difference between offering an already tooled (and paid for through it's inclusion in the base train package) coach as a separate item to lengthen a train - as is the case with the APT-E, Pendolino, Azuma, Eurostar - and tooling up a unique middle coach and expecting sufficient sales to cover the entire cost.

 

2 hours ago, adb968008 said:

my thought is…

There isnt a saving*, what there is is value add upsell revenue that leads to greater volume sales, which reduces risk, lowers per sku amortisation, which preserves margin but lowers individual sku cost.

Simply..

You buy the base unit, then buyers choose what bits they want to upgrade… more stock, more lights etc..

 

Again, you really aren't indicating any bits that effectively could be an upgrade though.

 

Lighting really needs to be factory - you need to run power from the track - and if done in a reasonable manner (ie. use a magic wand to turn off/on and not the really expensive DCC option that Bachannn chose for the Mk2f) then the additional cost should be minimal - with the added bonus that the interior lighting also works for those not using DCC.

 

More stock - already done, discussed above - but probably not an option in many cases where each car in a MU seems to be unique and thus has research/tooling costs to cover.

 

2 hours ago, adb968008 said:

For example, I think the £450 3 car class 104 without sound, is going to come a cropper myself. Whilst demand is there, its a price point thats new to everyone, even in Europe and think its going to struggle.

 

Personally I agree with you, I think the price is on the high side, and that combined with Heljan's chronic issue of not delivering accuracy could hurt them.

 

On the other hand the market may not care - RMweb doesn't represent the market.

 

2 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Yet its loaded with features which are irrelevant to a substantial part of the market and could move its value from positive to negative for them to justify.

 

What features is it loaded with though?  And more importantly, the features it does have shouldn't be driving the cost up to the extent that Heljan have priced that item - Accurascale are offering much of what the Class 104 has (minus the motor and buffers) for £50 each in the Mk2b.  Yes, the Mk2b potentially sells more but I don't think that justifies what is an approximately £40 to £50 premium per car.

 

Otherwise the listed features all seem to be standard these days and hard to remove.

 

2 hours ago, adb968008 said:

I will also point out Hornbys own moves on the Belle, they recognised the redundancy of DCC fittings, and how it was distorting price, and subsequently removed the high cost couplings etc on the 3rd batch and reverted back to basics.

 

That reflects the chronic problem with Hornby though - they can't decide whether they are making toy trains or model trains.

 

2 hours ago, adb968008 said:

So let me stop justifying your negatives, and instead ask how would you do it ? or would you just not bother making it at all ? - in which case your just dissenting as your not interested anyway.

 

As I have said several times in the past, I think the conventional wisdom is wrong and that the market will support the necessary price for a 4 or 5 car multiple unit - and that careful choice of prototype (ie. combination of livery variations/widespread geographic appeal/or just general interest) could give a successful product.

 

It just takes someone to prove it.

 

If I had the money, or could make the decision, I would look into something like the Class 180 for example if going for a longer MU, or the Class 165/166 for a 3-car unit.  Potentially the Flirt units depending on how much tooling could be shared between the Welsh and Greater Anglia units.  Or I am sure there are other potential options if one did the research.

 

They would have interior lighting (but not by DCC), and DCC as an option for controlling external lights and sound.  There is no reason to expect the younger generation in this hobby won't want those features given they have grown up on games and other electronics.

 

But, and this would be controversial, I would also look at offering fantasy liveries on the units - perhaps Intercity for the Class 180 or even the Flirt units for example.  As much as it annoys many fantasy liveries sell in the US, and likely would also sell in the UK given how popular painting the real thing in older liveries is, creating necessary sales as the market moves to more niche prototypes.

 

 

 

 

[mdvle]

1 hour ago, newbryford said:

One advantage of the A/S TPE Mk5 set is that you can split the purchase into two more manageable chunks - the coaches and the 68.

 

Can you really though?  In the current era of periodic production can you risk getting one or the other in the future when you want it, or do you have to buy it now when you know it is available?

 

1 hour ago, newbryford said:

And I'll bet in many cases many folk (me included) have already bought the 68 "just because" and they can be seen elsewhere, not just on TPE services.

 

In many cases yes, but the fact that Dapol quickly did a new run of the 68 to go with the Mk5 set indicates that wasn't true for a lot of people - and that they were willing to be paying for both at roughly the same time.

 

 

[stonojnr]

7 hours ago, sga962 said:

Things I'd buy even if they don't fit my future layout:

• Flirt (the 745 just looks so nice)
• Networker (465 and 466, wouldn't need too much update)
• the 2 pendolino cars to be able to make a prototypical 11 car

 

Flirts would be great, infact anything GEML would interest me, but Hornby have shown so little interest in the region over the years, even when they have existing toolings they could use, and these are not just modern traction but multiple units modern traction too, I just dont expect we'll ever see Hornby dip into those.

 

I mean someone upthread mentioned Hornby doing a platinum jubilee special for the Queen to mark the anniversary, and its immediately expected to be a steam train 1950s style special pack, and not the Elizabeth line crossrail (which opens next year) Aventras instead. That to me tellls you where most people recognise Hornbys focus always is.

 

 

 

[Mark Hamlin]

GWR  4-6-0 Hawkesworth County gets my vote

Edited December 29, 2021 by Mark Hamlin

[Hroth]

3 hours ago, Mark Hamlin said:

GWR County gets my vote

Churchward or Hawksworth?

 

Both could do with retooling! 

[Hilux5972]

 

28 minutes ago, Hroth said:

Churchward or Hawksworth?

 

Both could do with retooling! 

Hawksworth first lol

[Robin Brasher]

My first suggestion is a Southern Region R1 0-6-0T in a red Hornby Dublo 2-rail candy striped box.  This should be an unlimited run at a reasonable price and available from my favourite model shop at the outset. It was the motive power for Simon K's brother's first train set.

[ThaneofFife]

yes i thought the same about TTS class 87s but they arent gunna happen with so little space inside to fit em.

 

they did a minim retool of the HST power cars recently so cant see why the chassis block cannt have a chunk milled out of it to give a bit more room for decoders and a speaker........externall their 87 is a stunner just let down by one or two hard to fix by the purchaser niggles.

[Opelsi]

Here is my take on how 10th Jan could unfold.

 

What I think they could reasonably come up with:

• Cream topped Pullmans
• LMS Red & Gold Coronation Scots (they have history of doing these though never ran in UK)
• LNER Coronations + Beaver-Tail
• Classes 81-84
• SR H16
• SR L1

What I would like them to be imaginative with:

• Caledonian Cardean
• Caledonian Stock
• GWR Toplights
• LMS Big Bertha
• BR Class 01 / 06
• BR Class 70 (original type)
• BR Class 74
• BR Class 123 / 124
• SECR Dancehall Brake Van

I am sure all of those would sell and most folks would find one or more of the above interesting for them.

I am not sure we'll see any of them anytime soon though!

Compliments of the Season!

Edited December 27, 2021 by Opelsi
Typo

[Robin Brasher]

Tri-ang did produce a couple of Caledonian bogie coaches from 1962.  Perhaps Hornby could re-introduce upgraded models of these on their 60th anniversary. They could also produce these as generic coaches for pre-grouping railways as there is a shortage of bogie panelled coaches for this era.

[RJS1977]

Unfortunately I suspect the tooling for the Caledonian coaches was destroyed under previous management, so a complete retool would be needed.

[Bilbo]

13 hours ago, manna said:

G'Day Folks

 

Hoping for the return of 'Design Clever'.............

 

manna

The England cricket team have been monopolising that. I'll get my hat.

Edited December 27, 2021 by Bilbo
missed a word

[thohurst]

Would love to see a retooled and well detailed diagram 1/227 ferry van, and a ford palvan. 

Along with many others on this forum, I'd also like to see a retooled 8F and black 5 - I think it's right up Hornby's alley.

[Hal Nail]

Given the current economic and Covid disruption, new players snapping up some models and several ranges to fuel, will be interesting how many genuinely new models we see announced in the main range.

 

I suspect just a couple of new versions of staples following the example of the 9F, A3 etc. Lot of people pushing Accurascale for a black 5 so wouldn't be at all surprising to see Hornby try and claim that.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 27, 2021 by Hal Nail

[Bartb]

I wonder if Hornby will venture into O gauge, as it's a growing market.

[Legend]

11 hours ago, RyanN91 said:

Last year at that Q&A YouTube video thing that Simon and Montana did this time last year. Simon said he's aware it's Queen Elizabeth II Platinum Jubilee 70th in 2022. So Perhaps a other Royal theme Train set will be seen again with Resin brass-effect maker's plate and a Limited edition certificate. Like the 2012 Diamond Jubilee set (pictured)

Good  one Ryan . Princess Elizabeth would be most apt of course . Only issue is that it’s been done in the mainstream range .  You just know Simon Kohler will issue a gold plated one . I’d say it’s a fair bet . 

[Legend]

9 hours ago, Chris89 said:

 

Wouldn't put it past Hornby to do a Manor though :/

 

Either way, another one for going forward from 8pin sockets, so to enable more features for Diesel/Electric also potential for Steam to.

 

If EMU's. Something Scottish, 385,334, 303 etc.

 I’d love a Scottish EMU coming from around Glasgow , and I’d love a 303 ,but realistically if they were going to do an EMU I think something more mainstream like an Electrostar  is the way to go .

 

I’ve often said 313/314/315/507/508 or 317/318/455 families were ripe for a model . Given that these are now being retired I think it’s less likely from Hornby though , although curiously that might get it into SKs view!   Maybe more Accurascale/Cavalex territory though . 

 

There is scope for a Blue Pullman I think , using the old moldings perhaps ( but maybe they were disposed of in the Margate Clear out SK often refers to ) . You still see people running the old Triang one with some Kitmaster around too . The Bachman one was superb but just too expensive . I think there is a market for something that looks good but perhaps not so detailed and without inter connectivity that’s driving the cost of multiple unit models up.