Hornby 2022 Range - pre-announcement frothing - now closed

[Chris56057]

3 minutes ago, newbryford said:

 

Good luck with that.......

You can probably tell I'm not best pleased with Hornby's D&E offerings of late.

 

A new 31 would be lovely though.. 

Edited December 31, 2021 by Chris56057

[Hilux5972]

What is the current thing of posting comments with the font in white? Bloody annoying to be honest. 

[robmcg]

2 hours ago, No Decorum said:

It would be most agreeable to have a decent Duke of Gloucester and, for that matter, a decent Star. However, both are relatively recent models and there isn’t much sign of Hornby finding a pot of decent paint yet. The Saint is older and so I’d guess that it would be more likely. As for the A1s, I’m happy with my Bachmanns.

 

I personally think the Duke and Star are lovely as they are, but then I mess around with photos in lieu of super-detailing them myself.

 

I'm very curious about the new 9F and can't wait to see running samples, I'm expecting something spectacularly good but with finer detail than the Bachmann and thus a greater likelihood of assembly errors and bits falling off, either way I expect to be impressed. Something of A2 quality and of course the green for 92220,  There will have to be a lot of variations to match Bachmann, Hornby say they are doing five tenders.... A factory-weathered version is my impossible dream, but there's always my paintbrush, or any of several excellent aftermarket weathering people, take a bow toboldlygo, TMC and others.

 

Here is a photo of how a super-detailed Duke could look. It is based on a TMC-weathered Hornby version, with liberal use of PSP6 computer 'art'. The model looks very good to my eye though, even without my additions.

 

 

If Hornby were to do a B16 I can hear the cries already, 'not the version I need'.

 

Happy New Year all from NZ.

 

 

Edited January 1, 2022 by robmcg
typo

[The Johnster]

6 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

I think you're getting your LBSC terminology mixed up. The four wheeled coaches made by Hornby aren't Balloons.

 

This is a Balloon. A driving trailer that worked very much like a GWR autotrailer.

 

https://www.roxeymouldings.co.uk/product/62/4c48-lbscr-balloon-push-pull-driving-third/

 

 

 

Jason

 

Duly noted, thanks Jason, but neither the Hornby nor Hattons' upcoming generic 4 wheelers are going to provide me with the Glyncorrwg type miner's workman's I'm after, nor will the current 1960s non-gangwayed clerestories.

 

5 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

Actually, Johnster, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see some super-detail clerestories (though probably corridor ones) along with a Saint and a back-dated Star (even maybe in Atlantic form) to move them around...

 

John

 

Decent gangwayed panelled clerestories would be great to see, but, like the gangwayed Collets and Hawksworths, superb models both, they are are little use on Johnster's BLT.  A new Saint would be the same, but I'd still like to see one. 

[newbryford]

Only 9 days before we can start a Hornby 2023 wishlist............. Sorry Andy!

[mdvle]

15 hours ago, davidw said:

Tbh, Hornby are in the place where in 2020 there was a big announcement of new tooled items. 2021 likewise, but due to COVID and it's impact much has been delayed. 

I'm sure they will make announcements. It continues interest and cash flow. But personally I be surprised if they were as big as the previous two years. Either way we'll know a week Monday.

 

A quick search so I may have missed some items and make have status wrong.

 

2020

Delivered - Thompson A2/2 A2/3, Hush Hush, Mk1 RB

Somewhere in Shipping - APT

? - Coronation Scott

Awaiting delivery (have seen at least decorated samples) - 91

Missing - 2MT 78xx

 

2021

Delivered - Maunsell coaches, 4&6 wheel coaches

Samples of some sort - 88DS, Mk4 coaches and DVT, 9F (rumoured to be in next engine shed)

Missing - P2

 

Based on that they have delivered a reasonable amount, not a lot still in the tooling or earlier stage.

 

So I don't think there really is any reason to expect Hornby to cut back on new tool stuff given they have either delivered or are well along on most of the last 2 years of stuff.

 

Now add in Rapido's official entry in the UK market, Accurascale has an extensive range of items for 2022, Cavalex and Revolution are making progress, Bachmann appears to be back in the game, plus Rails of Sheffield and Dapol and potentially Kernow, Hattons and Sonic - Hornby really can't afford to cede market to the significant competition currently in the UK market.

[The Johnster]

3 hours ago, newbryford said:

Only 9 days before we can start a Hornby 2023 wishlist............. Sorry Andy!

 

Thought we were doing that now...

[Hroth]

3 hours ago, The Johnster said:

 

Thought we were doing that now...

Do you remember the good old days when we didn't just wishlisted, but actually frothed???

 

Ow.... My HEAD!

[Ruffnut Thorston]

5 hours ago, The Johnster said:

 

Thought we were doing that now...

No, not 2023, yet! 
 

Happy New Year, 2022, to all! 

 

 

Edited January 1, 2022 by Ruffnut Thorston
Typo

[No Decorum]

9 hours ago, robmcg said:

 

I personally think the Duke and Star are lovely as they are, but then I mess around with photos in lieu of super-detailing them myself.

 

I'm very curious about the new 9F and can't wait to see running samples, I'm expecting something spectacularly good but with finer detail than the Bachmann and thus a greater likelihood of assembly errors and bits falling off, either way I expect to be impressed. Something of A2 quality and of course the green for 92220,  There will have to be a lot of variations to match Bachmann, Hornby say they are doing five tenders.... A factory-weathered version is my impossible dream, but there's always my paintbrush, or any of several excellent aftermarket weathering people, take a bow toboldlygo, TMC and others.

 

Here is a photo of how a super-detailed Duke could look. It is based on a TMC-weathered Hornby version, with liberal use of PSP6 computer 'art'. The model looks very good to my eye though, even without my additions.

 

 

If Hornby were to do a B16 I can hear the cries already, 'not the version I need'.

 

Happy New Year all from NZ.

 

 

I am thinking more about under the skin. The motors used in these were of variable quality and the square axleboxes the product of a hung-over designer. The older method of a semicircle machined for the axle with a slot in the axle to act as a reservoir for oil was better. My point about paint remains. Finally, the trailing wheels. Hornby, please take a look at Bachmann’s V2. The P2 could do with treatment too but I’m not in the market for another as I’ve spent a lot following the excellent advice on RMweb to get a decent runner.

[No Decorum]

10 hours ago, Chris56057 said:

Less steam, more focus on Diesel and Electric..

Please not until Hornby starts to provide decent wiring, a decent PCB and provision for a more powerful decoder than an 8-pin.

[adb968008]

9 hours ago, newbryford said:

Only 9 days before we can start a Hornby 2023 wishlist............. Sorry Andy!

But before that read :

 

“nothing in it for me posts”.

LNER fans cheering.

Modern fans in despair

LMS fans looking at another relivery.

Looking forwards to a range that looks remarkably like other manufacturers choices.

“OMG How much?’ Comments

 

[Katie87006]

10 hours ago, Hilux5972 said:

What is the current thing of posting comments with the font in white? Bloody annoying to be honest. 

 

Most of his posts like that have no value or contribution towards the topic at hand anyway.  So maybe just getting his frustration out to feel good. Most people have a personal diary for such things. 

 

it's not like no one knows the recent troubles with hornbys d&e range. 

 

Some people have interesting ways of venting. 

[mckinneyc]

Oooo Hornby give us modern Peppercorn Pacifics! Then you'll have almost a full roster of LNER pacifics under your belt.

 

Would love to see a B17/5 as well. Maybe a newly tooled D49

[Katie87006]

On 25/12/2021 at 22:25, RyanN91 said:

Sorry yes if the toolings still exist ( I am aware alot of older toolings were sadly culled and canablised modified etc) and if there is a market for them as RailRoad train sets!

 

the lima cl92 would've made a good starting point for Hornby to do a minor upgrade like NEM couplers, dcc etc. 

 

The Hornby cl 92 looks weird

[Blandford1969]

3 hours ago, Hroth said:

Do you remember the good old days when we didn't just wishlisted, but actually frothed???

 

Ow.... My HEAD!

My word, if this is only a wish list (which to me was more like froth) what on earth would a forth be like????

 

[The Stationmaster]

29 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

But before that read :

 

“nothing in it for me posts”.

LNER fans cheering.

Modern fans in despair

LMS fans looking at another relivery.

Looking forwards to a range that looks remarkably like other manufacturers choices.

“OMG How much?’ Comments

 

You forgot -

Diesel fans looking at yet more reliveries

Southern fans being promised another coach

GWR fans looking at another relivery (in the wrong shade of green)

The Totfield Firebolt (because someone else got the licence first - they stole our idea)

[newbryford]

14 minutes ago, Katie87006 said:

 

Most of his posts like that have no value or contribution towards the topic at hand anyway.  So maybe just getting his frustration out to feel good. Most people have a personal diary for such things. 

 

it's not like no one knows the recent troubles with hornbys d&e range. 

 

Some people have interesting ways of venting. 

 

I think that may be me.

 

I'm often one for advising people to contact the manufacturer/company directly before going direct to social media etc and in my case, I've done exactly that.

 

After direct communications with Hornby (Mr K) , my experience is that Hornby pretty much don't give a damn about the D&E range.

Two issues were simply brushed under the carpet with:

"the project guy in charge of that has left, so we don't know anything/can't do anything about it"

and "it is what it is". (And that was after about 9 months of intermittent replies from them.

 

Neither of the above issues were helped with the recent Hornby docusoap as one was on about getting the colour correct and the other was "detail, detail, detail". Yeah, right.

 

Hopefully you can understand my misgivings with the big H.

 

 

I get the feeling that Hornby think they are infallible, but as time goes on, that image is crumbling and before long may fall.

 

And yet they are capable of making stuff like the Class 60 - which is still up there - just - with the best 00 RTR models ever made.

Yes, the world has moved on from 8-pin and the last iteration of the 60 has unpainted internals and is a backward step. (I'll paint mine).

Is this a sign of the pillars crumbling?

 

Unfortunately, the hobby needs the name Hornby.

 

 

 

 

[No Decorum]

29 minutes ago, mckinneyc said:

Oooo Hornby give us modern Peppercorn Pacifics! Then you'll have almost a full roster of LNER pacifics under your belt.

 

Would love to see a B17/5 as well. Maybe a newly tooled D49

Er, I’m happy with my Bachmann Peps although an A2/1 would be welcome. I’m with you on the B17/5 and D49. The Railroad standard D49 could do with variations in the valve gear – for preference something rather better than the plastic on Duke of Gloucester for the Lenz. Better yet, something not done before. There’s no shortage of choice without having to produce obscure types.

[Legend]

I think the market actually has changed , maybe because of all the new entrants and competition , so while we will see reliveries I think Hornby have to maintain momentum on new product .Quite what that will be I haven’t got a clue as all the big steam locos are essentially done .  Hornby do like big steamies though .

 

The  downside to this that models are expected to sell in their initial release , probably also cover their tooling costs which drives the price up . It may also be that volumes are a fraction of what they used to be even 10 years ago , also increasing price . But I think Hornby 2022 will be no less ambitious than 2020 and 2021 , parts of which have still to be delivered .  The 2022 announcement will have things  that will deliver in the year , but let’s face it some are unlikely to turn up until 2023/24 

Edited January 1, 2022 by Legend

[mckinneyc]

6 minutes ago, No Decorum said:

Er, I’m happy with my Bachmann Peps although an A2/1 would be welcome. I’m with you on the B17/5 and D49. The Railroad standard D49 could do with variations in the valve gear – for preference something rather better than the plastic on Duke of Gloucester for the Lenz. Better yet, something not done before. There’s no shortage of choice without having to produce obscure types.

 

The Bachmann A1 and A2 were good back in the day and still hold their own but I think Peppercorn's masterpieces could do with a new take on them

[Dunsignalling]

42 minutes ago, mckinneyc said:

 

The Bachmann A1 and A2 were good back in the day and still hold their own but I think Peppercorn's masterpieces could do with a new take on them

If Hornby announce even more large LNER locos this year, they'll start to look like a one-trick pony.

 

With all the emergent competition, they need to maintain as wide a customer base as possible, and Hornby's own steam-outline range is starting to look at least as vulnerable to gazumping as Bachmann's in some areas.

 

If they don't revisit locos like the Black Five, 8F, and non-rebuilt Bulleid Light Pacifics, soon, others are likely to do so.

 

John

 

 

Edited January 1, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[TomScrut]

In all honesty I hope they are conservative with their announcements to try and get rid of the backlog all the problems around the world have caused so that hopefully 2023 announcements are things coming in 2023/early 2024.  I am starting think that the best ways are the imminent lead time announcement method that Bachmann do, or Accurascales method of announcing stuff when it is at the EP stage.

 

FWIW, my wishlist is pretty minimal given the above and only involves tooling they already have or are close to having.

 

TPE and/or HT 802 and/or Lumo 803 (although given the GWR trainbow is due 2023 I am sceptical!)

 

Drax biomass hoppers (which I aren't holding much hope for after the discussions prior to last year's announcements).

Edited January 1, 2022 by TomScrut

[TomScrut]

9 hours ago, mdvle said:

Now add in Rapido's official entry in the UK market, Accurascale has an extensive range of items for 2022, Cavalex and Revolution are making progress, Bachmann appears to be back in the game, plus Rails of Sheffield and Dapol and potentially Kernow, Hattons and Sonic - Hornby really can't afford to cede market to the significant competition currently in the UK market.

 

One thing I am interested to know, how many wagons has Hornby tooled of things that are currently on the network? There can't be that many yet there are still loads of modern wagons untooled.

[The Stationmaster]

18 minutes ago, Legend said:

I think the market actually has changed , maybe because of all the new entrants and competition , so while we will see reliveries I think Hornby have to maintain momentum on new product .Quite what that will be I haven’t got a clue as all the big steam locos are essentially done .  Hornby do like big steamies though .

 

The  downside to this that models are expected to sell in their initial release , probably also cover their tooling costs which drives the price up . It may also be that volumes are a fraction of what they used to be even 10 years ago , also increasing price . But I think Hornby 2022 will be no less ambitious than 2020 and 2021 , parts of which have still to be delivered .  The 2022 announcement will have things  that will deliver in the year , but let’s face it some are unlikely to turn up until 2023/24 

Exactly so.  the market now seems to be very keen on demanding novelty in its various forms.  And that means both new models (even if they might sometimes be re-works) and 'oddities' which in the past would never have commanded attention.  I'm sure that Hornby fully understands the 'novelty' aspect and will continue to serve that market with a fanfare of annual introductions (perhaps no longer the best approach in my view because it has clearly led to problems) and looking for new things which will sell sell.

 

The corollary of this is, as Legend identifies, the fact that in a market seeking 'novelty' it might only come once so costs have to be recovered from the initial run.  That also has another effect which is I think where Hornby are getting things wrong.  Not only are they still making the 'good old' Year 2 error where Year1 sales have been very good so they over order a quick follow on batch for Year 2 but there are also two other problems.  

 

The first of these is that if you want to make your money back on Year 1 (which they also need to because of their financial situation) it means they may, and do, limit numbers produced and they might then end up over-selling due, seemingly, to their initial order system following their big annual announcement.  And we all know where that has led them.

 

The second thing which is now emerging with examples in both the W1 and the 78XXX is that they are going for much larger number of livery etc variants in Year 1.   While this probably saves on production costs it too might mean that individual versions of particular models are produced in relatively small numbers - it would call for considerable skill in judging the mix you order from the factory before you receive orders from your trade customers.  if Hornby get that wrong there would be a shortage of some versions while others gather dust in expensive storage space.  it also of course impacts on retailers who instead of getting variants over several years have now to judge what they will take into stock all at once.  However generally most of them have a pretty good idea of their market so will order what they now will sell - which might leave Hornby with unwanted variants and equally lead to retailers not receiving their full order because other retailers also know their market and have ordered accordingly.  

 

As long as Hornby have to pre-book their factory slots to ensure delivery in the 'model year' covered by their annual announcement they will face a potential mismatch between what they have ordered and what their customers order.   And as long as there is any possibility of over-selling through the annual order system and that mismatch then retailers will potentially face rationing or cancellation of what they ordered.  And that in turn means that it could be our pre-order which is cancelled so a further mess could be created by folk pre-ordering with several different retailers to try to ensure that they get what they want.